Tuning to E Flat

Jeremy Steele · Post by **Jeremy Steele** » 11 Jun 2009 4:43 am

The lead singer for one of the bands I play in has decided that he can't hit the high notes like he used to, and wants to henceforth tune down a half step. Will I have to readjust my pulls now, or will they still work? I play an Emmons push-pull, if that makes a difference. Since I play in more than one band, I don't to have to hassle continuously re-tuning...maybe it makes more sense just to play in standard tuning (despite the confusion which will undoubtedly ensue)....thoughts?

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 11 Jun 2009 5:28 am

Unless it is some special open lick that you MUST use on a song, I see no reason to tune your guitar down. It shouldn't matter to the singer whether you play a G chord on the 3rd fret position or 4th, for example.

With a PP, it could mean some major mechanical adjustments to get it to work right tuned down.

Jeremy Steele · Post by **Jeremy Steele** » 11 Jun 2009 5:57 am

Thanks for your comments Jack....as a matter of fact I do use open strings frequently, as many of the songs we play are in E...I guess I'll just have to come up with some new licks for those.

Steve English · Post by **Steve English** » 11 Jun 2009 6:44 am

Jeremy,
If it were me in your position I wouldn't be afraid to tune my p/p down a half step at all.

If you play a single neck, I would think it'd take much more than 30 minutes of setting up your guitar. You might even go up a couple of thousandths on each string gauge to compensate for a little less tension, and find that your pulls are slightly less stiff.

If I recollect correct, Rusty Young played a half step down in Poco.

If you play a lot of licks on open strings, I'd definitely consider tuning down. Spend a few moments playing in the Eb positions, and see how much fun that's gonna be.....and, check out where your lowest E is now.

Steve English · Post by **Steve English** » 11 Jun 2009 6:51 am

P.S. This is the procedure I'd follow (I do it every couple of months just because it's fun):

http://www.melmusic.com/laceyj/guide.html

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 11 Jun 2009 8:10 am

If you're tuning down half a step, you might want to go to heavier strings. The heaviest pre-packaged E9th made is Paul Franklin's Jagwires:
http://pedalsteelmusic.com/strings/E9.html#pf

Also, substitute an .022 for the 6th string.

Doug Palmer · Post by **Doug Palmer** » 11 Jun 2009 8:20 am

Most likely you'll have to re-adjust your guitar. Personally, I wouldn't do it. Get a new singer!

Doug

J Fletcher · Post by **J Fletcher** » 11 Jun 2009 10:02 am

Great excuse, or reason if you prefer, to own a 2nd steel, tuned to Eb9th...Jerry

Matthew Prouty · Post by **Matthew Prouty** » 11 Jun 2009 2:41 pm

Why tune down at all? The guitar players want to do it because they want all that open stuff, which they have a lot of.

How much stuff are you really playing open to justify retuning?

I already looked at this with a band and I would just eliminate the open string stuff which is probably minimal.

m.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 11 Jun 2009 3:38 pm

I agree, I wouldn't drop a half tone. Tell the singer to drop a full tone, and do his "E" stuff in "D".

Done deal.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 11 Jun 2009 4:17 pm

My take is the same as Jack Stoner's - unless there's an open string lick used or a particular phrase you need falls of the neck, changing key a half step shouldn't be a big deal on pedal steel. Singers I work with may call the same tune in different keys on different days - C one day, A the next - I sometimes ask, "What's the key du jour?". Either way, my instruments are tuned to E9/C6. I think one should be able to play most tunes in any key without retuning the instrument. If it's confusing at first, I think it would be a good idea to practice changing keys on tunes until it isn't anymore.

On retuning a push-pull down - it's probably not a big deal to adjust for this, but changing the string tension changes how much pull is needed to make a particular change, so you might need to make some setup adjustments. No big deal if you're savvy on push-pull adjustments, but otherwise, I wouldn't do it willy-nilly.

As Matthew says, a lot of guitar players use open string licks in E, G, A, C, or D, and you can get open-string licks of some sort by tuning up or down a half tone or using a capo. On guitar, this presents no issues - the strings are a bit more tight or slack - but there's no real downside and you can do it in the middle of a set if you want to. I sometimes tune down or use a capo on guitar, but would never think about retuning a pedal steel like this.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 11 Jun 2009 8:15 pm

Jeremy Steele wrote:...as a matter of fact I do use open strings frequently, as many of the songs we play are in E...I guess I'll just have to come up with some new licks for those.

If that's the case, and this is really the only band you play in, I think tuning down a half-step is not a bad idea. Reece Anderson plays an Eb9/Bb6 universal. It's a legitimate tuning in its own right. In your case it makes complete sense. As some suggested above, you might want to beef up your string gauges slightly.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 12 Jun 2009 7:22 am

I agree that Eb is a legitimate tuning - if one prefers the lower-tuned tonality. But if I wanted the classic E9 steel guitar tone, I would not tune down.

Guitarists like SRV were tuned down to Eb routinely, and used significantly heavier gauge strings. But the change in tonality is unmistakable. If you want that deeper tone, I'd say go for it. But if you like your tone now and are thinking about lowering your tuning just because one singer wants to sing lower, I don't see the point. YMMV, but I really think one should consider the tonality and setup implications before doing this.

Jeremy Steele · Post by **Jeremy Steele** » 12 Jun 2009 7:45 am

Thanks for your input, guys.....I'm giving serious consideration to Mr. Fletcher's suggestion of buying another guitar...seems like a perfect solution.

Jerry Roller · Post by **Jerry Roller** » 12 Jun 2009 8:01 am

I stated my thoughts below and this was originally a double post so I will use it to make the following observation. I have noticed that many of the major recordings are done in keys such as Eb (Look At Us)as a great example so the session players are just as comfortable playing in any key which is a good reason to leave your tuning alone and relearn the material.
Jerry

Jerry Roller · Post by **Jerry Roller** » 12 Jun 2009 8:04 am

Jeremy, I agree that the "best" immediate solution is to obtain another guitar to tune down for that singer. However, the best all around solution would be for you to learn the material in the 1/2 step lower key because that would be a great learning experience for you and would probably result in learning some new or substitute licks that would be fresh sounding to you. It is just a matter of knowing your fretboard better and that is a good thing. If you were only playing with the one band and never played with anyone else then I would consider tuning your guitar down but I believe you said you play with others also. I would not consider retuning for every gig because you would certainly have to retune the pulls every time.
Jerry

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 12 Jun 2009 8:28 am

What a great excuse for purchasing another steel guitar!

"Honey, you're not going to believe this, but circumstances dictate that I get another guitar..."

Lee, from South Texas

John Bechtel · Post by **John Bechtel** » 12 Jun 2009 8:33 am

I wouldn't want to and don't have any reason to Lower my E9 to Eb9, however; it's all in what you get used to! Our Forumite~Friend, Ted Solesky has always tuned his 9th-neck to Eb9, dating from back in the early-days of great string-breakage, due to the longer scales! Ted tunes to Eb9 for everyone and also because he uses a lot of open-string phrases. Changing to Eb9 might be a tuning that you would want to use 100% instead of switching from one to the other. Why don't you change to Eb9 and try it with everyone for a while. You might like it and if not, you can still go back to E9 and readjust everything again. I guess it all depends on how much you like the lead-singer¡¡ I personally would not lower my tuning. I would figure out some other lick to play!

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 12 Jun 2009 9:05 am

Guys, look what he is saying:

Jeremy Steele wrote:...as a matter of fact I do use open strings frequently, as many of the songs we play are in E.

Plus, he said he plays in only this one band with this one singer. If the singer moves all their E songs to Eb, Jeremy looses all that open string playing he does now. No amount of learning new licks up at the 11th fret with the bar (or 6th fret with the A and B pedals) will replace those open string licks. Plus, he has to learn new frets for every song in their repetoire - G becomes Gb, D becomes Db, C becomes B, etc. Tuning down a half-step has got to have minimal effect on tone (if the string gauges are beefed up slightly). It may be much more important to be able to get the open string notes than to worry about a slight deepening of tone, which may not be at all objectionable anyway. Some people tune down to D, and C6 is a standard on most D10s.

Of course, if you can afford another pedal steel and keep the two tuned differently, that's ideal - it's always good to have a second instrument for backup anyway. But that is a big expense if tuning his existing instrument down a half-step solves the problem.

Jerry Roller · Post by **Jerry Roller** » 12 Jun 2009 9:25 am

David, the way I read it he does play with more than one band at least I think that is what he said. The one thing that I personally would not do is tune up and down between gigs if it were me.
Jerry

Jeremy Steele · Post by **Jeremy Steele** » 12 Jun 2009 9:29 am

Dave, I very much appreciate your thoughts and your advocacy, but I DO play in more than the one band...I'm now thinking I'll try the Eb9 tuning for a while (with beefed up strings) and see if I like it for whatever band I may be playing with.

John Bechtel · Post by **John Bechtel** » 12 Jun 2009 11:30 am

Well, if you're dead-set on changing pitch to Eb9, may I suggest these possible gauges that might be appropriate?
F .014p
D .016p
G .012p
Eb .015p
Bb .18p
G .022p
F .028w
Eb .032w
Db .036w
Bb .038w
I personally would rather change my style of playing, than to oblige with such an unorthodox proceedure!

Bo Legg · Post by **Bo Legg** » 14 Jun 2009 10:20 am

I say, I say, I say, Somebody needs to build a PSG CAPO.
FOGHORN LEGGHORN

Joerg Schubert · Post by **Joerg Schubert** » 14 Jun 2009 11:27 pm

Hi,
I´m playing in a band that´s tuned down to Eb.
I have a D10 steel tuned down, use the Paul Franklin's Jagwires, as Bob suggested and it´s working fine. It´s an all pull guitar. I had to tune all pedals and levers after I put the guitar down one halfstep. Changes on pedal travel and complicated stuff like that wasn't necessary.
For me it was worth the change because now everything that I see the guitar players play match with my fretboard view.

Joerg

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 15 Jun 2009 2:31 am

Interesting, I have been thinking about an S10 tuned down to D9 rather than Eb9, probably a second Steel.

Have we forgotten that we carry around another neck under D ?

t