Does Anybody Here Play Both 10 and 12-String Guitars?

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 14 Apr 2009 1:39 pm

I had a 12-string Uni a while back, and kinda miss it since going back to 10 strings. I was thinking of maybe getting another 12-string, but I don't know how easy it would be to jump back and forth from 10 to 12. Anybody here do it? I'm more interested in the Uni aspect, but I'd like to hear from Ext. E9 players as well.

Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 14 Apr 2009 1:49 pm

Dave Van Allen plays a Zum U-12 and a ZB D-10. Perhaps he can share with us how he chases away the bipolar blues. It is daunting to me. The few times I've sat down at a 10 string after 10 years of exclusive 12 string playing I've felt inept, insecure, indeep sh't. It was enough to inform me that no matter how drunk I may be, I will not accept an invite at a bar to pick at someone's 10 string rig. Dude. Where's the rest of the strings, dude?

Ulric Utsi-Åhlin · Post by **Ulric Utsi-Åhlin** » 14 Apr 2009 2:26 pm

I play 10- & 12-string PSG´s but I´m accustomed to
it,so it´s not messing with my head too badly...it´s
a matter of re-visualizing and developing solid
points of reference...to complicate matters,I´ll be
receiving an 8-string PSG soon,I´m constructing an
11-string Console,play an 8-string Lap Steel,and I
sold a 6-string ditto a while ago...McUtsi

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 14 Apr 2009 3:18 pm

I echo Jon's comments. I've been playing 12-stringers since the early/mid 1980's. When I sit down at a 10-string guitar, it just doesn't feel good at all. There's something lacking....probably in my talent! $:\$

Having said that, though, I get the urge every now and then to get a small, keyless 10-stringer. Maybe a 12-stringer would feel more comfortable. If I got the 10-string guitar, I would most likely ditch the D string, move the B up to 9 and and put an E in the 10th position. I might could live with that.

Dean Parks · Post by **Dean Parks** » 14 Apr 2009 3:37 pm

I have both, but I tune the 10 like the top ten of a Uni (low G#)

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 14 Apr 2009 3:49 pm

I did it for a couple of years. My main problem wasn't the number of strings but the string spacing, scale length and pedal spacing. My Sierra S-12 was larger in every respect than the Williams S-10. Ultimately, I went to a custom Williams D-12X with the string spacing and pedal spacing widened to match the Sierra (which I prefer).

Still, the difference in scale length threw me off my game, so I ended up selling the Sierra.

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 14 Apr 2009 3:53 pm

THanks for your input, guys, Some things to consider for sure.

Yes, Dean, I remember you telling me that in Dallas. I don't know if I'd ever be able to let go of that low B after all this time getting used to it. What gauge is your low G#?

b0b, that's a good point. String spacing seemed more narrow on my MSA Uni 12 than on any of my 10-strings, although I can't be certain. It's been a while.

Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 14 Apr 2009 3:56 pm

Yeah--I've got my first steel, an S-10 BMI and I keep thinking of rigging it as a 10 a string Uni but I always balk with the concern that I might get a call from the queen of england with a gig on the Buckingham house 10 string so I'd need this S-10 in standard config to practice on.
And for clarification, my problem when I sit at a 10 string is not that it lacks anything compared to 12 (well, I'm saying that to avoid any arguments anyway)---it's just the unfamiliarity-caused train wreck-waiting-to-happen that causes me to sweat profusely. I'd be driving that thing on the wrong side of the road, for sure.

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 14 Apr 2009 3:57 pm

Jon, I now have the same fear when jumping onto a 12-string. Although in Dallas I sat behind a Cater Uni and really liked the feel. I have a hankering.

Jerry Knapper · Post by **Jerry Knapper** » 14 Apr 2009 6:23 pm

I try to keep a 10 string with E9th tuning set up as well as a 12 string with a univeral tuning set up all the time. It was a trick at first switching back and forth, but just like it took some time to get use to mastering the groups and scales and pedals and knee levers, the string feel change became common place. I really think it is a good idea to have the two set up just to be able to practise on each one. For a while, I did the same with an Emmons and Day set up, but most of the steels were not set up Day so I quit doing that. On the other hand, if you need the versatility without having two guitars, my advise is to stay with the 12 string. For me they are wonderful.

Bill Stroud · Post by **Bill Stroud** » 14 Apr 2009 7:02 pm

I play a Sierra Universal 12, and Mullen Double 10, Emmons D-10, D-12 Dekley, and a new addition soon S-10 SHo-Bud Pro 1.
I like them all.
Bill

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 15 Apr 2009 9:43 am

I have these steels set up in my home or at our perma-rehearsal site, and go between them pretty regulalry.
fwiw, I'm very used to playing all these steels and it only takes me like 15 min to dial-in to whatever steel I'm playing.
These are all single-wide-body steels, all capable of primary E9/B6 and/or extended/experimental pedal/lever changes.
S8U Sierra Crown 5x4
S10U Sho-Bud Pro-1 7x5
S12U Sierra Session Series 6x6
S12U Zum Steel 8x4
S12U Emmons PP 7x5

I also have two 6-string guitars and three 7-string guitars sacattered about the house and play regularly. The low B on the 7's is really easy to navigate.

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 15 Apr 2009 9:45 am

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 15 Apr 2009 10:26 am

Yup - I move back and forth routinely. I guess nobody has been able to convince me that there is anything "wrong" with either approach, and I find that they each play to different strengths.

The other issue is that certain guitars (or styles of guitar) are more amenable to one approach or the other. For example, a universal is possible on an old vintage instrument like a push-pull Emmons, but more difficult to set up mechanically, not to mention more difficult to find. Then, try to find a U-12 Franklin. Sometimes you take what you can get and try to make it work.

I don't have an Ext-E9 guitar or a Sneakycaster, but it's just a matter of time before I do. To me, this is much the same as dealing with alternate tunings on six-string guitar.

Paul Redmond · Post by **Paul Redmond** » 15 Apr 2009 11:17 pm

I use both interchangeably, but use the Uni tuning on both...no dastardly D string in the 9th slot. So it makes little difference which guitar I use...one has the two bass strings...the other doesn't. All KL's are the same and my pedals do the same jobs on both guitars. I can switch from one to the other seamlessly.
PRR

Jerry Hayes R.I.P. · Post by **Jerry Hayes R.I.P.** » 17 Apr 2009 9:02 am

I went from a Fender 400 to a Blanton S-10 (later converted to an S-11) to a Fender 1000 and finally a ShoBud 12 string, later a BMI S-12. I've played the 12 string for a long time now and anytime I set down at a 10 string I always seem to hit the wrong string(s) when starting a run and really have to pay close attention. I don't think I could have a 10 and a 12 on a regular basis and do either justice so I think I'll just stick with the old 12. I don't know the reasoning, but I've played 14 string guitars and I seem to be able to adapt to one of those quicker than I can to a 10 string!.........JH in Va.

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 17 Apr 2009 10:23 am

Interesting...

I obviously gear my eye to the bottom string to judge where I am on the guitar, so I've been able to go back and forth from an 8-string to a 10-string without any problems. But when I sit behind a 12-string, I lose my positions. Not that I've had many times sitting behind a 12-string, however.

Dean Parks · Post by **Dean Parks** » 17 Apr 2009 10:41 am

Herb-

I started using the F# wound string / G# plain string as my visual home-base, and that helps. That's assuming you have all your E guitars strung with plain G#, of course!

Robert Harper · Post by **Robert Harper** » 17 Apr 2009 11:04 am

I recently, in the last 2 months switched from a 10 to a 12. I can hardly believe the difference in sring spacing and the home position of the right hand. It has taken a while to become accustomed to the sring positions. I did not consider this or I might not have made the swap.

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 17 Apr 2009 11:22 am

The string spacing is a manufacturer's choice, often unrelated to the number of strings. For example, a Williams D-10 has narrower string spacing than a Sierra S-12.

Robert Harper · Post by **Robert Harper** » 17 Apr 2009 11:35 am

Thanks Bob I thought it was they were trying to put more strings in the same space.

Michael Strauss · Post by **Michael Strauss** » 17 Apr 2009 12:11 pm

My LDG is 3" at the roller for strings 1 - 10 and my Carter S-12U is about 3 1/8 for the same strings.

I have them set up next to each other and go back and forth when I practice. The knees aren't the same so that's the only adjustment. If you do it enough you don't think about it.

I have 8 basses fretted and frettless, 4, 5 and 6 string and both 30 1/2' and 34" scales. If you play them all on a regular basis it's no big deal changing beteen them. Going from the 4 to the 5,6 is the hardest as the low sting is a B and at least for me, I use the low string for my reference. On the steels, at least for E9 I use the 1st string for reference.

Ivan Posa · Post by **Ivan Posa** » 17 Apr 2009 2:15 pm

I have a Zum Hybrid SD10 4x6 and an Anapeg SD12 Ext E9 5x6. The knees on both use the same pulls with a couple of extra pulls on the Anapeg lower strings which makes it very easy to switch between the two.

Jon Light (deceased) · Post by **Jon Light (deceased)** » 17 Apr 2009 2:26 pm

Certainly no question that the mental anchoring/positioning from the bottom strings is a large part of the complication of going from 10-12-10 but for me the key issue is D, no D, D and stuff like 10-8-6 grips that become 9-8-6 when going from E9 10 string to Uni 12 string.

Paul Redmond · Post by **Paul Redmond** » 17 Apr 2009 4:19 pm

Right on, Jon. That's exactly why I took the 9th D strings off all my guitars in the first place. I was used to playing Uni's without the D's, then going back to a "conventional" tuning, I was always picking the wrong string with my thumb pick. I have the B to D pull on KL's a la Uni on all the guitars, so I just play either 10 or 12 interchangeably now...don't miss the D string at all.
PRR

The Steel Guitar Forum

Does Anybody Here Play Both 10 and 12-String Guitars?

Does Anybody Here Play Both 10 and 12-String Guitars?

switching between a 12 & 10 string.

Both

10 to 12

Learn Something every day