"The Professional" owners, show me your rack.....

Dave Manion · Post by **Dave Manion** » 24 Feb 2009 12:50 pm

Pedal rack that is. Anyone have close ups of mounting brackets, pedals, and widths of pedal mounts? Trying to put one together. Thanks!

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 25 Feb 2009 6:17 am

Bill Ford · Post by **Bill Ford** » 25 Feb 2009 6:57 am

S12, CLR 5+5

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 25 Feb 2009 11:08 am

Sorry Dave; had "Racks" on my mind and re-read....and you're wanting the pedal board??
Here's a pic.

Can you take a shot of what you have laid out?? I can tell you exactly how to put it together and what goes where and whatnot.
Pedals are 2 3/4" center to center.
Ricky

Dave Manion · Post by **Dave Manion** » 25 Feb 2009 11:47 am

Sorry Ricky, pedal board is what I meant I guess. The actual pedals and the board they are mounted to. Your second post is what I meant, I just thought it was called a pedal rack.

I have an eight pedal "board" with some pedals that have been shaved unfortunatley for me. I'm left with three big and five small surfaces, so I thought I'd put the three big ones over on the E9 side. Turns out one of the pedal mounts (the part that slides on to the shaft, help me with a name for it if there is one) is more like 2 11/32" instead of the 2 3/4" mounting size of EVERY other pedal. I didn't notice it until I took it apart of course. It looks as though you've got that smallest flange, mount, whatever as your first C6 pedal. Am I right? It seems it should have to go somewhere specific and that first pedal position makes sense. I was going to just keep experimenting as taking the pedals apart and putting them back together isn't all that hard, but this sucker is GREASY! I figured there would be a specific place for it, and a reason.

So to sum it up, do all Professionals have one pedal with that smaller mounting size? Also, how hard is it to find replacement big pedals with 2 3/4" mounting sizes? Do you usually have to buy a whole rack, errr, board?

This is my first Bud, and I still love my MSA, but I see what you guys mean by the TONE. It's really hard to describe, but it's awesome! I think the main difference is the string to string definition. And the B6 neck has some fat chords on it! But I digress....

Thanks for all your help,
Dave.

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 25 Feb 2009 12:19 pm

WEll some call it "board" some call it "rack"..I call it board to not confuse with racks...ha.
Anywho; you can see from my picture above that the 4th pedal has a shaved side(shorter tube)as it goes up against that spacer between pedals 3 and 4; so that will continue the proper 2 3/4" spacing between pedals. So yes there should be only one pedal with the smaller tube and that is the 4th pedal.
If one of your remaining wide pedals is that smaller one..than yes you won't be able to use it for one of the first three pedals....>you can get 3 pedals that are not cut down; to be cut down to match....some like the narrower surface.,...and if that's you; that's what I would do. Otherwise.....you might ask around on "wanted to buy" section who may have what you need in whatever you decide....
I wish I had any extra pedals for ya...I'd offer them up..but clean out right now.
Good luck to ya.
ricky

Dave Manion · Post by **Dave Manion** » 26 Feb 2009 11:45 am

Perfect explanation Ricky, and you gave me the reason. It has to be shorter to account for the bracket next to it, keeping the pedal spacing equal. I really don't like the look and non-uniformity of feel of two different type pedals, but I bet if I shut up and practice it won't bother me too much at all. I am gonna keep my eye out for some spare big pedals though!

Dave Manion · Post by **Dave Manion** » 26 Feb 2009 11:52 am

Oh yeah, almost forgot the other part of my pedal question. The moveable mounting point next to the pedal. One spot is closer to the front of the guitar (away from the player), the other set "back" a little. From what I've gathered it's mostly the amount of travel in the pedal affected. Is it just a matter of taste and/or timing the pulls with the amount of travel?

I'm going to go search how to tune half stops and that darn vertical knee. I can tune it with no pedals to go down a half step, but with pedals 1 and 2 in it only moves a quarter tone or so. I'm sure this has been answered but if I can't find it be sure I'll let you know.

Ricky you're a wealth of info. Without you and guys like you and this website, I'd be lost. Not many players up here.
Dave

Ulric Utsi-Åhlin · Post by **Ulric Utsi-Åhlin** » 26 Feb 2009 3:09 pm

The position nearest to the player results in
a shorter and,obviously,slightly harder travel.McUtsi

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 26 Feb 2009 5:31 pm

Yes the two positions on the pedal to pull from are a feel possibility....I never felt much of a diff...I just put it in the one closest to the player to prevent possible rod scraping on the apron..ha.
For the vertical; I guess you're talking about lowering 5th string half tone??? If so....I do have several ideas and you might need a split rod; but first and foremost.....make sure to use a .018p for the 5th string; that size string wants to split almost naturally.
Push the "A" pedal down and make sure that C# note is in tune....>then while engaged...lower to C with the lever...and tune that note to your liking...It actually blends well as a minor third when playing a&b pedals string 4;5;6....
If it's not quite going down far enough; then you need more distance to the stop....>then after you have it....Let off pedals and hit the knee lever to Bb....now it should be in tune...but if not..it should be too flat...and if it is...than you'll need a barrel tuners behind the raise section on that rack that lowers the 5th string...and you will actually be raising that note back up..so it will hit at the very end of the travel and tune it on the raise.(just thinking....I hope we're talking about a rack and barrel???If not...I need to see the underneath of your shobud and the endplate finger holes to tell you what to do for the split)
Yell back if this makes no sense....or send the steel to me and I can set up your half stops and splits in about 5 minutes....ah.ha.
Ricky

Dave Manion · Post by **Dave Manion** » 28 Feb 2009 5:14 pm

Ricky, it's not rack and barrel, to my amateur eye it appears to be double raise double lower on the changer with the nylon tuners alot like my MSA. I need to find the cable that connects the camera to the computer, once I do I'll post pics. The underside is REAL pretty. But yeah it appears to be newer than the pics I've seen of the old rack and barrel ones. So the adjustments would be different.

I haven't got my hands on calipers to see what diameter string is there, but I'lI have access to some this next week. I adjusted the vertical to flat string 5 a half step with pedals down, but then with pedals off it goes about a whole tone down.....doh!

I can't wait to be enlightened on how this works. The physics are never readily apparent to me at first, but the different ways it's done is intriguing. I'm obviously just learning. Thanks again. Dave

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 1 Mar 2009 6:17 am

Which of the two lower holes on the changer finger is the 5th string lowering rod iN???
The crossbars and pullers are round with two hole pullers right???
You won't have enough raise holes to do a third raise for that knee that lowers; so that's out. The other thing folks have done is drill/thread into the back of the tail piece behind the finger they need to finally stop...and screw a machine screw in.
But let's see if we can't get you close with the right string and right settings on the rods and distance....
Also; is there a raise spring on that 5th finger??(that's the little spring attached to the raise section that right against the body.)
Yes seeing the underneath and the changer sure would help....I can tell you what to do in 5 seconds...ha.
Ricky

Dave Manion · Post by **Dave Manion** » 3 Mar 2009 1:21 pm

Yup Ricky, round with two hole pullers. The upper of the two lowers is where its currently connected. It looks as though ill get more travel if it goes in the lower hole. I got pics, but now my computer died. Been a Great week so far...ha. Gonna find a friend who'll let me use their comp to post pics.

Dave Manion · Post by **Dave Manion** » 3 Mar 2009 8:25 pm

Fifth time's a charm..E9 changer

Let's see if it worked.
YES! Take that technology!

Dave Manion · Post by **Dave Manion** » 3 Mar 2009 8:47 pm

Shazam! double hole puller?

I got it, I need to fine tune how, but it's a relief to at least get something for you to look at!

I can get more pics of the underside if needed. It's got a lot more stuff going on than my MSA. I noticed the half stop mechanism with the springs in it today. One to adjust the where the first stop is in relation to the full stop.

Sweet!

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 4 Mar 2009 5:55 am

Yes try lowering the 5th string from the lowest lowering hole...see if that helps...you'll have to adjust where the knee lever is stopping.
Also; I would swap where strings 4 and 8 are lowering....Lower the thinnest string from the furthest lowering hole; which is the 4th string...and doesn't take as much to lower a fatter string like the 8th...so move it up one lowering hole...and I bet those would move better together...and adjust your stop.
I would actually totally re-rod that changer...ha...but it's functional I suppose...
Ricky

Dave Manion · Post by **Dave Manion** » 4 Mar 2009 10:34 am

Ricky I've never moved the pull rods around. I have some assumptions on how to do it, but not sure...I understand where the stops are, which way will I have to adjust them? I guess a better question is, how will I know when they're right? Is it sort of to help take up the difference in the new movement of the pull rod?....I think I "get" it, but there is always that one thing that I miss that makes it come together.

Thanks for your help Ricky, when this is done you're gonna get something out of it besides good Karma. Beef jerky? Set of strings? My eternal gratitude?

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 4 Mar 2009 10:02 pm

Well you'll have to turn the stop screw clockwise...so that makes it stop sooner; because now it's going to pull quicker to the note. You want it to stop maybe just a smidge past lowering too much; than adjust the nylon tuner to perfection.
Ricky

Dave Manion · Post by **Dave Manion** » 11 Mar 2009 12:25 pm

Sorry Ricky, I missed the notification that you had replied.

Anyway, I've been working with it and have been able to move the pull rods to the other lowers, it's really simple once you understand it comes out of the changer side. DUh....

Here's what I've been missing: Do I need to adjust pedal 1 to help tune the split with my LKV? The split is referring to the fact that pedal one takes string 5 up a whole step and the LKV takes it back down a half step right? The one thing I'm not getting is how I can get my LKV to do a half step lower with no pedals, and get it to do the same thing with pedals 1 and 2 in, or for that matter just pedal 1.

I have LKV in the lower of the lower holes, but still have a big difference between the amount of pitch change it gets with no pedals versus pedal 1 in. I know the stop is involved and lowered it like you said but still found discrepency in the amount of pitch change with no pedal/ pedal 1 in. So of course I just started moving it around to different amounts of travel but haven't had the light bulb go off yet.

As far as the nylon tuners go, I see how they're threaded on the rod. So they fine tune the length of the rod basically? I assume you want them halfway on, so you can have some travel either way. Can they come all the way off the rod, or be damaged in other ways? I noticed on the 2nd lower,(bottom one) it's hard to get my wrench in between the tuner and the endplate. Probably just gotta deal with it I guess.

So the stops adjust the amount of travel of the knee lever/pedal, the nylon tuners fine tune the length of the rod, and we are trying to control how far we pull the changer finger.

So close.....the good news is, I can't wait to head over and screw with it some more.

Dave

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 12 Mar 2009 7:13 am

Well I don't know what to tell you. It won't split naturally; so you'd need some kind of split tune. It can't be a rod; because you would need one more raise hole on the finger; and you don't.
There's also no raise springs and they are not adjustable lower springs; so can't really slow or speed up the finger movement.
So you'll have to decide which movement is more important to your playing> the lower a half tone from the pedal raised position or lower half tone from no pedal position; and tune that one.
If you make sure just the half tone from no pedal position is in tune with the nylon tuner...than to get the half tone lower from the pedal raise position; just let off the pedal and move the bar up a fret and lower your 4th string; if using the 4th string in conjuction with the chord; and 6th string is no pedal.
If you want to have the half tone lower in tune with pedal raise...then for your half tone lower from no pedal; you would move back one fret and raise the 4th string a half tone and "b" pedal half tone.
I don't have a 5th string lower anymore...because I find it useless because I do those movements described above.....>therefore if I had a verticle, which I don't...>then I would raise 4th string a whole tone; as I can find that use much more.
Sorry I can't help further.
Ricky

Dave Manion · Post by **Dave Manion** » 12 Mar 2009 11:29 am

Thanks for all your help Ricky, it was a good excuse for me to get more familiar with my new ax. It's good to know the split happens sort of with the luck of the draw. It sounds like several things need to sort of happily match up for it to happen without a split tuning. I assume a split tuning is another rod that corrects the inaccuracy of the initial "split".

You're right, I can get that minor chord easy, and the flat five chord is there two frets higher, but its not quite the same. I might just use it for the no pedals flat five or I might play around for a while and put it somewhere else when I find myself going..."man I wish I could have this string do this"...

Would you use the 4 string raise on your "nonexistent" vertical so you didn't have to raise 5 with it? For pulling into unision things like Lloyd Green? so you don't have to grab string 1? All those and more I'm sure.

We will talk again Ricky, and you have been MORE than enough help. I gotta say I am amazed at how you went out of your way to help me get this thing going with no motivation except for to help a fellow steeler. It's stuff like that I can think to when I show up to the gig a half hour before everybody else and start lugging stuff in and setting it up, and then get to watch a singer with a guitar and duffel bag, and a fiddle/ mando player with one light trip, heck even the drummer with kick snare hihat crash ride, mosey on in at their leisure. ( I double on tele and bari and lap sometimes too) I can always remember I'm not alone. I guess together in misery is better than alone and bored? Just kidding.

Anyway kudos, and I hope to be helping people out twenty years from now when I have enough knowledge to impart.

Dave

Ricky Davis · Post by **Ricky Davis** » 12 Mar 2009 1:01 pm

Yes you're more than welcome..glad to help when I can.
Yes that is certainly the way I'd like the 4th string raise a whole tone..without the 5th string raising...
Remember to get the 5th string b5 you move back just one fret..that's a half tone...and raise your 4th string a half tone and 6th or 3rd string a half tone...in essence; your 4th and 8th and 3rd and 6th strings never change tone from start to move back position; only the 5th or 10th string.
Enjoy.
Ricky

Alan Brookes · Post by **Alan Brookes** » 13 Mar 2009 6:09 am

These are very interesting photographs. It occurs to me that it would be a worthwhile project for someone to put together a database of photographs of as many PSGs as possible, and have it as a reference link to the Forum.