Would You Play E9th If....

[Bill Hankey]

Would you play the E9th tuning if you were cut off from using the 4th and 8th strings knee raises and lowers? There seems to be a tendency to rely heavily on those changes. The results of such changes would result in a bit of scramblings to fill the gap. Some of the top artists, have ordered changes that are rarely used once in place. Has anyone considered speaking out on this UNDERDEVELOPED system of random knee lever changes?

[Charles Davidson]

There was a lot of great steel playing going on before pedals and levers came along,BUT I sure would hate to give up those two levers you mentioned.DYKBC.

[Jack Dougherty]

Bill..

Sounds like this belongs in the non-pedal section

[Herb Steiner]

I don't have a problem playing E9 without those changes, since my first two or three guitars didn't have knee levers. I moved the bar, and slanted the bar. And my Bigsby doesn't have chromatic strings either. Then again, I'm 61, so...

BTW, thanks for an opening post that uses regular English, Bill.

[Tony Prior]

BTW, thanks for an opening post that uses regular English, Bill.

I guess that means as opposed to irregular English !

My answer to the the question posed is; "well hard to say" My first Steel had neither of those levers, my second had them both but I didn't know what they were for. I guess I'm always gonna play E9th but I ain't gonna give up the levers either ! It may not be the answer you are looking for and it's the only answer I got !

t

[Barry Blackwood]

I was playing before those levers, using back or forward slants, however, the levers made the changes more in tune because you could keep your bar perpendicular to the strings.

[Hap Young]

NO

[Stu Schulman]

I could.

[Bill Hankey]

The inability to maintain perfect pitch, is the leader in susceptibility issues! There isn't a player to be found who has maintained perfect pitch at all times while playing. The more a player advances to narrow frets and higher pitches, the more he must use greater concentration to keep on track.

[John McGlothlin]

Billy Robinson sure knows how to get all the pedal and lever sounds out of a non pedal guitar so we all know it can be done.

[Bill Hankey]

John,

It can be Billy Robinson, or any of the living breathing steel guitarists wielding tuners and a complete line of gear. It isn't possible to play perfectly on pitch. It's a fact of a steel player's life. We must learn to live with things that we are unable to change. Furthermore, I doubt that anyone could substitute by clever means, the two levers that control the 4th and 8th strings.

[John McGlothlin]

I'll say this...there is certainly no way that I could manage to do without the raise and lower levers of the 4th and 8th strings, I'd be like a one legged man at an ass kickin, I couldn't get anything done.

[Ben Lawson]

The last time I saw Big Jim Murphy he was playing a non-pedal steel with ASAW. He played stuff with no pedals or knee levers that I can't play with 9 & 7.
In answer to the post; not unless my life depended on it.

[Larry Lorows]

Why would anybody want to give up advancements on their instrument. Would rather watch a game on TV or listen to it on the radio? Would rather go back to riding horses or drive a car?

I agree a lot of players have changes on their guitars and don't know what to do with them. They're content with two pedals and two levers and they still wouldn't want to give them up. Larry

[Bill Hankey]

John,

Good sport that you are, thanks for the admission of a prominent handicap. We all look for certainties. Removing those two levers would create an unwelcome certainty.

[Jack Dougherty]

Has anyone considered speaking out on this UNDERDEVELOPED system of random knee lever changes?

I am reminded of the Crawford Cluster..

Underdeveloped????

I would be hard pressed to believe top players have random knee levers. There have been many who might have experimented at one time and may have removed a lever or two. However, the "E's" to the best of my knowledge have not been touched. Can one really do without? Perhaps. But

[Jimmie Misenheimer]

I've got 44 years (+ -) sitting behind one. The last almost 5 years without the 4th string lower. This instrument is to an extent, anyway, alot about "trade-offs". If you tune "this way", you can't do that, if you tune "that way", then you can't do this. I have "subsituted" the 2nd string with a raise to "E", and thereby have a lower to "E FLAT". Does it sound EXACTLY the same - no. Can you do SOME of the "stock" licks exactly "like the record" - no. I do this in favor of tuning consistancy. I own four VERY GOOD guitars - "leading brands", and they all are more "stable" tuning wise, and that, for me anyway, is much more enjoyable. While this works very well for me, I'm not trying to talk anyone else into it... Jimmie

[Herb Steiner]

I'd clarify my first post by saying that I certainly wouldn't want to do without them if possible, they're certainly convenient and a requirement of much of the current vocabulary of the instrument.

That being the case, a reasonably significant number of the jobs I've held in the last few years could be considered "retro" style gigs... there's no need to play Paul Franklin and Sonny Garrish licks because the music I'm to recreate was recorded on instruments that might not have had pedals, much less knee levers. So when playing a 1950's-early 60's E9 style, you're not required to have knee levers or even chromatic strings, per se.

I have an amateur-made video of a club date I did with James Hand a few years back. At first in the vid I'm not on-camera, and it sounded to me like I was playing my Emmons D-10. But when the camera came on me for my solo, I was playing a triple-neck 8-string Bigsby in D9 with no levers or chromatic strings. I determined then that I sound like me regardless of the guitar I'm playing.

One way of finding alternative substitution positions for melody notes, with guitars not having the levers, is to think of the tuning with pedals down as A6th, and then find your scale positions the same way as you do when playing non-pedal C6.

[Archie Nicol R.I.P.]

`BTW, thanks for an opening post that uses regular English, Bill.`

There is plain English campane..?..campagin..?.. camp Ian....?... Aw, forget it! Just continue with the gibberish.

Arch.

[Bill Hankey]

Jack D.,

I know that Bobbe Seymour flies to locations outside of Nashville. Did you fly your own craft? If you've never experimented with an assortment of knee levers, you may have done yourself a favor. Lloyd Green first used the E to F change while recording Tammy Wynette's #1 hit song D_I_V_O_R_C_E in 1968. He is credited with using the E-F change for the first time in Nashville's recording studios. Franklin created much interest by pressing the utilization of the 1st, 2nd, 5th, 6th, and 9th string modifications. Two and three half tones popularized an interest in his presentations. Again, his forte' is by far in the quickness of his hands. If a player can't manage to progress by moving the 4th and 8th strings,combined with the 2nd lowered in combination with ABC pedals,it isn't worth writing home to report. The pleasure and beauty of the instrument, can be found in those changes.

[Bill Hankey]

Arch,

You are very welcome. Thanks for sharing in the pleasures of discussing one tough instrument to fully understand.

[Archie Nicol R.I.P.]

`You are very welcome. Thanks for sharing in the pleasures of discussing one tough instrument to fully understand.`

I didn't realise we were discussing the fairer sex.
I'll leave it at that and we can get back on topic.

Sorry;
Arch.

[Jack Dougherty]

Bill

On occasion I have flown myself. Usually with someone else's plane. But so we stay on topic, as you know the "E" changes were added to facilitate the player in not having to slant the bar even though that maneuver at times is quite pleasing. LLoyd's reasoning for not doing so has been explained in many articles. It all comes down to personal taste and style. For me, I could live without some levers although I use them all but I will not give up the "E's"

[Bill Hankey]

Jimmie M.,

I remember a noted steel player asking me if my steel was equipped with the E-F change when first taking up the instrument. I thought for moment and then asked; "What can you do with that"? That was a bad mistake, and a foolish question.

[Roual Ranes]

I quit driving a stick shift years ago........the "clutches" bothered me.