Roger Rettig wrote:Without trying to confuse this issue, your ankle tilting more comfortable to the 'outside', or left (as does mine), indicates that 'Day' would suit you better. We often leave the 'B' pedal depressed and rock on and off the pedal that raises the 5th and 10th strings - tilting to the outside, or lifting the right of your sole, means that all-important 'pull' (raising the 5th and 10th from B to C#) should be in the 'Day' position - ie, as your 3rd pedal.
Funny, but I more often keep the 'A' pedal down and rock on and off the 'B' pedal as I go between 'A+B' and 'A+F' positions. I rarely hold the 'B' pedal down for very long.
I play with pedal 'A' to the left of pedal 'B' (like Emmons). I don't have a 'C' pedal - lost it about ten years ago. Does this shoot any holes in your ankle theory, Roger?
Well, I won't rise to that one, b0b - we can only describe our own experiences, can't we?
I think I've described the 'Day' vs. 'Emmons' dilemma fairly accurately - to rock to the left or to the right; that is the question!
Having said that, I find that I've almost unconsciously made some changes myself in the last year or two. I was at Russ Wever's house a while ago and attempting to noodle on his Zum - he noticed that I had a tendency to lift my foot and move it across when only engaging an outside pedal (in particular, my 'C' pedal), and he suggested that I might want to cover both pedals continuously, thus reducing unnecessary movement.
I never really thought about it after that day, but I guess I must have assimilated his advice - and that is why I've found it much easier to play my Derby with its 'alien' (to me) Emmons set-up. After Brint's post on the previous page I got to thinking, and went to sit down at both guitars.
Eureka! I find that I've learned to gently drop either the inside or the outside of my foot without my knee moving!!!! All this has happened without me being aware of the improvement I was making! Naturally, I have to move my foot to engage my pedal 1 or pedal 4, but these are less-frequently used.
Ergo: The physical issues in relation to 'Day' vs 'Emmons' can be easily overcome by retraining one's left foot!
Of course, I can still be tripped up if I'm trying to play the Derby 'on the fly' - 'Day' is too ingrained for me to unlearn thirty years of conditioning - but I'm getting there!
It's unconnected, I know, but the biggest bugbear on my Derby is that the B to Bb lever is on LKV - I know lots of guitars have it there, but I like it on RKL. That will have to be changed if I'm going to really enjoy the guitar.
Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles, Martins, and a Gibson Super 400!
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I personally don't like to "rock" my foot or ankle. Because when doing so, the whole leg moves and increases my chances of engaging the F lever by error. I like the Emmons set up so I can use the toes on the left side of my foot to squeeze the A or B pedal down. I need a soft soled shoe to play though.
Zum Encore, Zum Stage One, Fender 2000, Harlan Bros., Multi-Kord,
I squeeze my pedals the way Bob does and also not too long a B only. I started with Emmons and then I bought a couple of push pulls that were Day setup and stayed with the Day made more sense to me. I lower E's with my LKL and raise with LKR it all works out.
This has been quite a revelation to me, discovering that I've gradually been making more economic movements of my left foot. I now very rarely - if at all - find myself shifting my foot to the right to engage my third pedal; I used to do that habitually.
Another advantage will be that I can now adjust my LKR and LKL to fit my knee more closely, so that they will require far less movement to engage. Right now there's too much play there, although that was necessary when I was using that earlier flawed technique and my knee would move involuntarily.
If I hadn't just figured all this steel-playing lark out for myself all those years ago, I imagine I'd have fewer bad habits today!!! It's never too late to learn, is it?
Roger Rettig: Emmons D10, B-bender Teles, Martins, and a Gibson Super 400!
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Hey Guys,
I bought my steel guitar when I was 17. I didn't know Jimmy Day from Doris Day. I just wanted to play pedal steel guitar. I have used the Day setup for 39 years and it works very well for me. None of my other E9 pedals are like Jimmy Day's. I have my E to F# raise on my RKR. My E to Eb lower is on my RKL. I can move from F# to Eb with no problem. My E to F raise is my forth floor pedal. It's OK there because I hardly ever use that change anyway. The ABC instructions are no problem to switch to CBA. I don't care to call the Emmons setup "Nashville". It's either "Emmons" or "Day". If you don't know the setup, I challenge anyone to identify it just by hearing it. It's all good. I am amazed by Jimmy Day and John Hughey. Also, I am equally astounded by Buddy Emmons and Paul Franklin. It doesn't matter. Let's just play some steel!
Thanks,
Bryant
If you want to add the franklin change then the day set-up would be better, the franklin change is normally on the 4th pedal, so going from the A to the 4th is a strech, thus the day set-up has these 2 pedals next to each other.
IMO: I don't think from a playing stand point it really matters, just what you get used to. However, I do think that the nearer the center of the body you play has more cabinet drop there is. As the Day set up is nearer the center on the main 2 pedals there is a little more cabinet drop there but how you tune the guitar will also take care of that. That is why one tuning chart will not work on all guitars.
thanks
BILly
I am an emmons set-up guy, I am sure I could play the day set up with little problems, how ever this is a problem, if you want to play modern country, like alan jackson, etc. you will need at some point to get the franklin change, where will you put it? normally this change plays of the A pedal, so why not have it close to the A pedal? Yes you could have it to the left of the A pedal at "0", but that starts to add pedal's. Take care guys...
I'm a Day player and my Franklin pedal is in position 1. I have no problem getting from the A pedal to the Franklin quickly. After all, Doesn't Paul play Emmons and have his Franklin pedal on 4? Although I think he said on his instructional CD that he would place it next to the A pedal if he had it to do over again.
