Guitar Royalty

Andy Volk · Post by **Andy Volk** » 18 Nov 2008 4:04 am

George & Chet = Guitar Royalty!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4vOL_UQ ... re=related

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 18 Nov 2008 6:23 am

Chet is a pretty smart fellow for not following Benson with a solo!

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 18 Nov 2008 8:14 pm

Benson's tone is AMAZING! I think Chet knew where the line was too, Bill.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 18 Nov 2008 8:34 pm

Yup - George certainly smoked that one. He plays more notes perfectly than pretty much any jazz guitar player I've ever heard. That can be a vice in lesser hands, but not him - it just cooks. Whew.

Jerry Hayes R.I.P. · Post by **Jerry Hayes R.I.P.** » 19 Nov 2008 11:47 am

Quote: "Chet is a pretty smart fellow for not following Benson with a solo".......Wrong!!!

Chet is, (excuse me) was one of the best ensemble players I've ever witnessed in my life. He was one of the rare breed of guitarists who when playing with others often used a very sparse technique. He could have "smoked" George Benson at will if he'd wanted at any given moment but Chet always played for the song. A bunch of lightning fast notes on that beautiful tune mean nothing.....Chet had taste!

Chet along with being a master of fingerstyle, could also flatpick with the best of 'em using his thumb and fingers. I love GB's playing but there's no way in hell he could ever even attempt to play something like Chet's rendition of "Dizzy Fingers", he just doesn't have the advanced chops. It's easy to play fast with a flat pick but very limiting IMHO. Being a kid in SoCal and going to Town Hall Party a lot I remember times when Joe Maphis would be blazing with his flatpick and double neck and good ol' Merle Travis would come on and knock him out of the park with that thumbpick and index finger.........JH in Va.

Kevin Hatton · Post by **Kevin Hatton** » 19 Nov 2008 12:38 pm

I disagree. Ole Chets got the classic white man "play on the down beat" syndrome, and George is just smok'n those souful off beat pentatonic licks. Technically, very few could keep up with George. Still its an interesting observation on different cultures approach to guitar playing and music. Chet was a tasteful player. I am sure George appreciated him.

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 19 Nov 2008 1:24 pm

Chet was a great player. I don't think he minded getting "smoked," as Mr. Hayes put it. Chet appreciated good playing---good country playing, good classical playing, rock, jazz---as ANY true musician would. I compare Chet and Jeff Beck a lot. No true "masters," but true guitar artists, who could add something to whatever situation they were in. Chet's timing on the twin parts? How are you gonna get any tastier than that? Both George and Chet knew they were in the company of greatness, and that's good enough.
And Jerry, you contradict yourself--deriding Benson for playing fast notes, and then saying he doesn't have the chops to pull off "Dizzy Fingers?"
And it's not a question of "smokin'," anyway. Some guys play with a flatpick, Travis played with a thumb and a finger, Chet used two or three fingers, and Jerry Reed used all five. So, using that as a criterium, who's gonna "smoke" who?
Great playing, by two masters.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 19 Nov 2008 7:12 pm

FWIW - I didn't say that George "smoked" Chet, but that he smoked "that one" - the song. These two guitar players are so different that they can't be seriously compared - totally apples and oranges. They are obviously both great, in their own rights.

But I can't imagine who would have wanted to follow Benson's solo on that number. It was simply dazzling and beautiful, to my tastes. Again to my tastes, that is one of the most overdone songs on the planet - and he breathed new life into it.

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 19 Nov 2008 8:34 pm

Dave, I doubt if Merle Travis, great as he was, would have wanted to follow THAT solo! Stunning!

Brint Hannay · Post by **Brint Hannay** » 19 Nov 2008 8:35 pm

But I can't imagine who would have wanted to follow Benson's solo on that number.

Jeff Beck, maybe? There's no limit to the number of good ways to solo on a tune. And Chet did follow Benson's solo, with his own choice of how to play. Which, no matter how many fewer notes he played, was at the least not less musically worthwhile. IMHO.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 19 Nov 2008 10:59 pm

In no way do I want to get into a discussion of relative musical worth - that was emphatically not my point. It's a great clip of both of them.

Chet followed with a brief twin with George, and then the head out, which I thought was entirely appropriate. Music is in the moment, and I thought Benson had an unusually brilliant moment on this solo - IMO, that brilliance bore no direct relationship to the number of notes he played - that was simply part of the big picture. Why does anybody think that noting this unusual brilliance implies anything about other players, Chet or otherwise? I think most great musicians have unusual moments of extreme brilliance - but not necessarily at the same time on the same stage.

Brint Hannay · Post by **Brint Hannay** » 20 Nov 2008 10:39 am

Apologies, Dave, it was not my intention to argue with your points, nor to imply that you were only concerned with the number of notes played. I only meant to state the positive point that there's no reason not to follow someone's solo, no matter how brilliant or impressive. It's something I work at keeping in mind myself.

I used Jeff Beck as an example because he would have the confidence, and would IMO make an equally brilliant contribution of an entirely different sort.

Jerry Hayes R.I.P. · Post by **Jerry Hayes R.I.P.** » 20 Nov 2008 10:49 am

What it all boils down to is the style and technique of each player. I've seen Chet play with Jerry Reed where Jerry would take a solo and totally tear it up, then Chet would come in and literally just "play the melody". I have George Benson's old "Breezin" album and it's one of my favorites. He is without a doubt a master of his genre (is that the correct word?) as Chet is a master of his.

I remember a Youtube video of Chet playing on the old Nashville Now TV show with James Burton and Albert Lee who are no slouches when it comes to guitar. They played the old Ray Charles/Elvis tune "I Got a Woman" and it was wonderful. James played a hot solo but Albert's techically might have been more difficult but they both sounded like you'd expect them to sound! Chet stayed with his usual tasty stuff and played for the song. He doesn't get in the way of other players when in a situation like that and makes you appreciate the whole piece, I know I did!

It sort of reminded me of a night long ago when I still lived in SoCal. At one of the afterhours shows and jam there were four guitarists playing together at a club called the Imperial Inn. I won't name any names except for one. The players were tearing it up and trying to squeeze as many notes as they could into the shortest possible space! Then a solo was taken by Nokie Edwards (of Ventures fame) who played about half the notes the others did but had by far the best solo of all! Everything meant something and he wasn't trying to move as fast as he could. He's also a desciple of Chet's and uses a thumbpick away from the Ventures gig. If you've never hears Nokie away from that other thing, you've missed something..........JH in Va.

Dave Harmonson · Post by **Dave Harmonson** » 20 Nov 2008 12:15 pm

I really enjoyed the video myself. I know George always had a lot of respect for Chet and vice versa.
Jerry, you on the money concerning Nokie Edwards. I was fortunate to play with Nokie many times and he was a huge influence on me. I've seen him play with a drummer and a bass player and play instrumentals for 4 hours straight. Incredible stuff and the coolest, nicest guy you could meet. Whenever you'd see Nokie in the crowd we would usually ask him to pick a few, but I only remember one time when he actually approached me and asked to sit in. The reason being he was trying to get away from an obnoxious drunk and the only refuge he could find was the stage. I handed him my guitar and just said anytime you want Nokie.

I saw some pretty cool videos of Nokie in Japan playing with The El Caminos on Youtube. Maybe some one can post the link. The rest of the players are Japanese and back him up real nice.

Bill Hatcher · Post by **Bill Hatcher** » 20 Nov 2008 2:14 pm

Jerry Hayes wrote:Quote: "Chet is a pretty smart fellow for not following Benson with a solo".......Wrong!!!

Chet is, (excuse me) was one of the best ensemble players I've ever witnessed in my life. He was one of the rare breed of guitarists who when playing with others often used a very sparse technique. He could have "smoked" George Benson at will if he'd wanted at any given moment but Chet always played for the song. A bunch of lightning fast notes on that beautiful tune mean nothing.....Chet had taste!

Chet along with being a master of fingerstyle, could also flatpick with the best of 'em using his thumb and fingers. I love GB's playing but there's no way in hell he could ever even attempt to play something like Chet's rendition of "Dizzy Fingers", he just doesn't have the advanced chops. It's easy to play fast with a flat pick but very limiting IMHO. Being a kid in SoCal and going to Town Hall Party a lot I remember times when Joe Maphis would be blazing with his flatpick and double neck and good ol' Merle Travis would come on and knock him out of the park with that thumbpick and index finger.........JH in Va.

I love Chet Atkins. I have virtually every record he ever made, I have his autographs from concerts I saw him play in the 60s up through the 90s, and I have had the distinct pleasure to work a concert with him here in Atlanta at the Fox Theatre playing guitar for him, and he was so nice to me you would not believe it.

Chet Atkins was a very wise man. There was a situation at a Gretsch funtion many years ago where some of the Gretsch endorsees were playing for the audience there. George Van Epps was particularly great that day. Following him was Atkins.......until Atkins heard Van Epps and he refused to go on. He picked another slot when things had settled down!

Atkins weakest suit is his jazz improv. His best attempt was his 50s playing in the Django style. Later on his playing mostly became so commercial and vanilla, just selling records to your mom and dad. Still he was an incredible guitar player with a style and a touch all his own, but never in a thousand years could he even remotely come close to holding his own with the likes of Benson playing a REAL jazz solo. THAT is why you see Atkins pointing to Benson when the solo section comes.

Atkins was a very wise man.

A bit of trivia. Atkins conductor lived here in Atlanta for many years. He told me that when they were out on the road that Chet would NEVER practice the guitar while any one else was around...why? I asked...because Atkins would never let anyone else hear him playing any wrong notes or hear him working on something that he did not have together.

In regards to your statement about the flat pick being "limited" you obviously forgot about the playing of Johnny Smith. Atkins thought that Smith was one of the greatest guitarist ever. Paul Yandell who played with Chet for many years said that Chet thought Smith was from another world!

Chet Atkins had more of an impact on my playing than any other musician I ever listened to.

Andy Volk · Post by **Andy Volk** » 20 Nov 2008 3:34 pm

There's not much I can add to Bill's dead-on comments except to say that Chet knew EXACTLY what he was about in terms of his strengths and limitations. He was untouchable at what he did. Benson was and is close to untouchable at what he does. He added a soulful, funky dimension to the single note jazz vocabulary of Smith, Farlow, et al. with an ease of execution that's the envy of almost everyone who's ever picked up a flatpick. On the YouTube clip both guitarists play to their strengths. No question that they had the utmost respect for one another. Saying one smoked the other is nonsense and completely misses the spirt of communication between two consummate pros.

James Cann · Post by **James Cann** » 20 Nov 2008 10:52 pm

I wish I could remember who said it here on the forum, so to paraphrase, at this level, there's no "relative worth" or ranking--only difference.

This is to be enjoyed; to evaluatingly listen is to miss too much.

Jussi Huhtakangas · Post by **Jussi Huhtakangas** » 21 Nov 2008 6:01 am

"Atkins thought that Smith was one of the greatest guitarist ever"

Yes he was!! :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQHRPC81DDg

Johnny's still with us though, but hasn't played guitar for two decades. What I love in his playing is the total mastering of, not only his instrument, but the music itself too, be it an uptempo jazz, a ballad or a classical piece. Studying his close voiced chord arrangements turned my thinking of guitar inside out, though I can't say I learned enough to be even worthy to change a string on his guitar!

Bobby Caldwell · Post by **Bobby Caldwell** » 3 Dec 2008 7:53 am

This is some great great stuff. Don't know how it missed it. Thanks, Bobby

Eddie Cunningham · Post by **Eddie Cunningham** » 3 Dec 2008 2:11 pm

Back in the early 50s Chet came to Boston to a local music store , Wurlitzers , to play and demonstrate a new Gretch guitar . Many of the local club guitar and steel players came to see him . He had a young fellow with him playing snare drums and Chet had a new "Echo-plex" unit that were just coming out . He had it hid in back of him and would adjust it quietly once in a while. I don't think he wanted us to see or ask questions about the Ecoplx. Anyway , while he was playing one quite simple song he made an obvious mistake , just smiled , and kept on playing . At the end of the song he said "anyone can make a mistake , just smile and keep on playing !!" I believe he played that mistake on purpose just to give us a lesson in stage presence !! He didn't make any mistakes in the difficult or fast songs !! Eddie "C"

Bo Borland · Post by **Bo Borland** » 3 Dec 2008 3:00 pm

A very old friend, and amazing guitar player, turned me on to George Benson when he was still playing guitar behind Brother Jack McDuff. George was a kid in his teens and yet he was totally incredible.
I dig the way different jazz pickers play their style..Herb Ellis' single string bebop, Tal Farlows' chord melody, Joe Pass' everything, Barney Kessel, and more.
Something to learn from them all ... and how about Pat Martino, Joe Sgro, Dennis Sandole...

LJ Eiffert · Post by **LJ Eiffert** » 12 Dec 2008 10:45 pm

Uncle Joe Maphis could hold his own Too! LJ

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 12 Dec 2008 11:48 pm

Was Joe Maphis your uncle, LJ?

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 13 Dec 2008 9:37 am

I can't help but wonder if George Benson was saying to himself " I'm George Benson, but good god, thats Chet Atkins sittin' right here, do you see him , he's right there ! " ...."Thats Chet Atkins" !!!

This was really good..

t

Jussi Huhtakangas · Post by **Jussi Huhtakangas** » 13 Dec 2008 10:39 am

Yeah Tony, my thoughts exactly. Great minds admire each other!!

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Chet made a mistake !! ??