How Many Fingers/Strings Do You Generally Use?

[Les Anderson]

At our weekly practice session tonight our lead guitarist asked me if I needed to pick so many strings when following with chords or doing solos. He thought it sounded a bit over done in most cases and it is taking away from my chord work or the melody of my solos.

I guess I must admit that my playing does get a bit cluttered as of late but, have to blame it on hour after hour of practicing to be able to grab three and four strings when playing a chord or doing solos. I think my problem might be that I have reached the point that I do it only because I can now grab four strings with relative ease. After listening to our practice tape a few times tonight, I can see where I have been over doing it more than just a bit.

I logged into Youtube after I got home and listened to David Hartley’s music for a while and studied it very carefull. He plays so beautifully clean and clear and I have a feeling that it's that clean and crystal clear playing that is setting him so far above most other steel players. I noticed tonight that he did not use four strings in unison; however, picks them alternately if three or four strings are to be used.

How many of you guys grab four strings or overdo your picking merely because you can? Better still, how many of you guys think you may be over doing it a bit with playing full chords (four strings) or too much support picking when playing solos but won’t admit it? ( what a dirty rotten question that is)

[Brett Day]

I use two or sometimes three.

Brett

[Danny Bates]

In his courses, Jeff Newman used strings 5 and 8 for most of his backing chord playing and fills. It was almost like he was against playing 3 strings. In fact, he seemed to hang on just those 2 strings most of the time. Pretty amazing stuff.

[Tony Prior]

Now theres an oddity, a Lead Guitar player telling a Steel player they are over playing !

There is no real answer as to how many strings, it just comes back to "are you playing MUSIC that fits the big picture" or are you playing on top of the big picture and cramming music down everyones throats.

Sometimes a single harmonic note can be in the wrong place and at the wrong time and "disturb" the big picture.

Playing backup can be as gentle as a single string sustain harmony note or can be a 3 note chord from any of the typical grips we use on E9th.

Playing backup can also be "not playing at all" during certain sections of the song.

Personally I find myself playing less these days, a single note behind the Fiddle or Guitar, more phrasing if it is "my space to fill " etc, sometimes just playing less adds more to the song .

or maybe..

If you play nothing and the band members tell you that was great !

[Dick Sexton]

Les, Thanks for exploring this, very important for working musicians, I think. I was most fortunate to set in on only one of Mr. Newmans seminars. I was like a sponge then, a slow fingered, mediocre six string player with a brand new steel. At that time, late 70s, he taught the very basic grips and movements. There was no such thing as "Up From the Top". When we finished going through Harmonized Scales, he stood in front of the class of about 20, and said, "now you have everything you need to play on any bandstand or to be a studio musician". I couldn't believe he had said that, I could barely hold on to my bar and them picks were killing my fingers. But he was Jeff Newman and I believed him. One and two note runs with a few chords, basic E9th setup and I never failed to work. He said, "BUILD" chords and musical phrases around the rest of the band. If your playing every note that needs to be played in a song on the band stand, why is there a bass or guitar player or any other instrument for that matter. He also said, "the most important thing you will ever learn on steel, is when not to play, if you play all the time, when you have something important to offer, no one will hear it. One or two notes tastefully played in exactly the right place is all that is required in most situations. Most, not all, working steel shows or playing jams where the steel is "the instrument", I think requires much more. Listen to Mr. Greene, Mr. Emmons or Mr. Franklin working behind a great singer. Except for the break, less is more. Of course, that's how I see it, you may not.

[Bill Hankey]

Les,

Interesting stuff! How does David Hartley play a dim.7th chord on the E9th tuning? It requires 4 tones to correctly apply it to melodies.

[Dave Mudgett]

Now theres an oddity, a Lead Guitar player telling a Steel player they are over playing !

Ha! That's what I thought when I saw this too. Of course, that's another over-generalization, but often on-target.

I think it depends on what and with whom one is playing. In a very dense mix, I find that big, complex, and/or altered chords can be a problem - the possibilities for annoying clutter or unintended dissonance can be a real problem. Many musicians I've worked with essentially force minimalism on me by their choices of chord voicings and sheer amount of notes. But when playing with people who understand voice leading and are willing to leave anybody else some space, the rich, complex chords readily available on a pedal steel can be great. Of course, that implies a responsibility to - in kind - not overdo it and also leave them room.

IMO, the better the musicians one works with, the more opportunities there are to interact with them in a harmonically interesting way.

My opinion, of course.

[Bob Simons]

I have heard finicky producers say that they didn't want more than two notes out of a steel guitar because of the difficulty of tempering the instrument. Three or more notes lead to messy harmonics...I believe I heard Jeff Newman say that as well in a seminar one time.

I know I tend to overdo the harmonies when I practice by myself without another instrument or two...

[Don Drummer]

The band I play steel for at full high profile set up has a six piece band and three vocalists with lots of harmony. when you combine keys, fiddle, steel and lead the need for each instrument to play triads and beyond is over doing it. The 5 8 string combonation makes tons of sense. Need to voice a diminished chord? Raise the eighth string at the appropriate fret. If the sound is getting cluttered,lay out. Using multiple chord instuments is tricky and takes a lot of listening and planning to get a concise sound on stage. Don D.

[Bob Simons]

Try playing in between a piano player and a horn player...you're lucky if you are left with any harmonic note choices...

[Charles Davidson]

When I first started playing with REAL bands when I was a clueless whippersnapper in the late 50'sThought I was supposed to play every hot lick I knew in EVERY song,playing over the vocals,other instruments,etc,Did,nt take long before a couple of old pros to set me straight,After getting my a&& chewed out and my feelings hurt a few times I caught on,It was get it right OR HIT THE ROAD.bEST EDUCATION I could have gotten.DYKBC.

[Ray Montee (RIP)]

Does one concentrate or think of how many or what strings to pluck.....

OR, does one think of what the song's melody, phrase or measure suggests?

I know I NEVER have any preconceived notion of what strings to pick. I play what I feel that moment requires.

And, what's wrong with just one string from time to time?

[Donny Hinson]

The secret to playing fuller chords, or rather - being able to play fuller chords, is having a rhythm section that understands that they're not supposed to be playing as loud as the lead instruments!

Listen to a big band playing jazz and it will be blissfully evident. Do you hear the piano player behind a string of horns playing 2-note chords??? Of course not! But, the piano player understands that's he's not supposed to be as loud as the horns. Listen to classical music and hear a piano playing full orchestra chords while the entire string section backs him up. Do you think the conductor would tell all but one of the violins to quit playing, that there's too many notes???

When everyone is playing with the same volume, what you get is not music - it's cacaphony. If the dynamics aren't layered, everything's a drone.

Unfortunately, the idea of dynamics in music is becoming a lost art.

[Bob Hoffnar]

I play 1 or 2 strings mostly with a full chord now and then.
Some things to think about:
Note choice: If the singer is singing the 3rd in the melody then leave that note out of your chord and see how that sounds.

Register: Play lower or higher than the singer. Try staying away from the vocal range.

Counterpoint:If everybody on the bandstand is marching along going up or down at the same time find a note/chord that works that stays put or moves the other direction.

Don't play at all: If you want your chords to sound big and full in the chorus don't play anything till you get there.

Make your choices about what to play based on musical ideas rather than your ability. I try to think about what would make the band or tune sound better rather than what cool thing could I play.

[Les Anderson]

I try to think about what would make the band or tune sound better rather than what cool thing could I play.

You have a valid point there Bob. I guess I, as do so many other steelers and/or most other musicians, accompany with what sounds good to my ear and personal liking. I knew that a full chord (four string chord) was possible on my steel so I practiced until it became second nature and came to me without looking or conciously concentrating on finger placement.

Maybe I just become a little too full of myself and my steel's importance to the rest of the band. I love the sound of a full chord on my steel; however, others may not be so inclined to hear it or appreciate it as I do.

[Marke Burgstahler]

I play 1 or 2 strings mostly with a full chord now and then.
Some things to think about:
Note choice: If the singer is singing the 3rd in the melody then leave that note out of your chord and see how that sounds.

Register: Play lower or higher than the singer. Try staying away from the vocal range.

Counterpoint:If everybody on the bandstand is marching along going up or down at the same time find a note/chord that works that stays put or moves the other direction.

Don't play at all: If you want your chords to sound big and full in the chorus don't play anything till you get there.

Make your choices about what to play based on musical ideas rather than your ability. I try to think about what would make the band or tune sound better rather than what cool thing could I play.

Indeed! SO true.

Dynamics (with a capital D)
Note Choice
Register (VERY important!)
Counterpoint
Silence

I am admittedly a new steeler, but one of the biggest lessons I have learned to date is not how to play this chord or this intro, it's learning to play LESS.

Again, IMHO.

I am learning SO much from hanging out here.

[Alan Harrison]

This is one of the best, most informitive post I've seen in a long time...Thank you all.

I know that I over play often, but in the last couple of years, I try to play just two strings, seldom three and more often a single string filling in a harmony part.

I don't think you can plan what your going to play, you have to listen to the other instruments in the band and stay clear of their lead notes.

As has been said many times, the good players not only know when to play, they also know when not to play.

The latter has always been hard for me, but I'm getting better.

[Dick Sexton]

Here is an example of simple fills behind a singer. Mostly two finger work. http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=145776 Notice, what seems like a lot of dead space between fills. That space accents the fills and makes them more powerful. DS

[Billy Tonnesen]

Just a little bit of ancient history. Noel boggs many times on his chord work used three fingers. The first two he had finger picks, his third finger had a big tough fingernail that he used in lieu of a pick.

[Brick Spieth]

Years ago I was fortunate to hear a jazz group consisting of Chick Corea on piano, Stanly Clarke on upright bass, Wayne Shorter on sax, Bill (?)Henderson on trumpet, and the drummer escapes me.

Chick Corea was playing the sparsest piano imaginable, two and three note chords building on Stanly Clarke's bass lines while the horns were be bopping all over the place. It was one of the most memorable examples minimal playing I've ever heard.

Count Basie really understood this concept.

The other consideration in the less is more mindset is you can actually hear notes bloom in space, if there is in fact space.

I my five piece, we sometimes stop and consciously play about half the notes, and I mean everyone from the drummer to the keys, and it always sounds better.

[John Lemieux]

Boy i,m learning things here.

[Moon in Alaska]

I like to mix it up a LOT !!! I think, after playing many years, you finally realize you can play some SINGLE string notes and make them really impressive !!
I seldom play more than intervals...maybe 2 or 3 triads in a single song. I perfer using the 4th and 6th strings on E9th, up and down the neck, using the F lever where we use to slant..yes, I can still slant these strings..they are just far enough apart to make slanting easy.
We have to remember....Just because we can play 4 part hormony does not necessarly mean we should.
I believe over doing it is a mistake....
Just my thoughts !!
Moon

[Roger Edgington]

It depends on what I feel in the song and the space I want to fill. On the E9th I play 1,2,or 3 most of the time sometimes 4. On the C6th I'll grab anything from 1 to 10. If I'm playing parts with fiddle and lead I generally use a single note as it seams cleaner. Every tune is a little different.

[chris ivey]

i'll play one or two the majority of the time with my thumb and middle finger (that always feels best) and i'm lucky when those are right. some nights more three noters fall in place.

[Richard Sinkler]

I usually play 3 note chords if I'm required to be the rhythm player while the lead player is playing. If there are other rhythm instruments, I will probably back off and not play at all (preferably), or play partial chords. Then on 4/4 shuffles, I like to pick string 8 with my thumb on the downbeat and pick strings 5 & 6 with my fingers on the up beat. This simulates the playing style used by rhythm guitarists on that type of song. This give the bup-chunk, bup-chunk type of sound. Other times, it's just 2 or 3 strings playing sustained notes. Sometimes I just play strings 8, 4 & 5 giving an octave with strings 4 & 8, usually with no pedals but it also works with A & B pedals for rock type of stuff.

On C6th, playing swing, rock-a-billy, rock, pop, it's usually at least 3 notes and still use the same methods as above depending on the song. My C6th stuff usually calls for playing extended chords.

Play what sounds best for the song, even if it means not playing at times.