Anyone have any experience with Del Vecchio Dynamicos?

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Darrell Urbien
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Anyone have any experience with Del Vecchio Dynamicos?

Post by Darrell Urbien »

OK, this is borderline OT, but since I can't seem to post on Reso Nation anymore I figured I'd try here.

I know Del Vecchios are super rare and not exactly well thought-of in terms of build quality from the factory. I know they probably don't make the resonator models anymore, and even if they did I don't know if they ever made a squareneck or Hawaiian. At least one person has told me their resonators are not like National single cones, but I don't know how. I also know Paul McGill makes a repro, but don't know how his compares to either a real DV or a National. Come to think of it, I don't know if any of these Dynamico-styled instruments were ever indended to be played with a bar.

Anyone here know anything more?

Is this something a fledgeling luthier could try to make with stock reso parts from Stew Mac or National? Or do I have to be a machinist too?

Edit: Did a search of this site, and found this thread:

http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum2/HTML/001989.html

There's a post in that thread that has a link to a page on the differences between Nationals and DVs, but the link is dead. :(
Last edited by Darrell Urbien on 16 Oct 2008 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Jim Konrad
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Re: Anyone have any experience with Del Vecchio Dynamicos?

Post by Jim Konrad »

Darrell Urbien wrote:OK, this is borderline OT, but since I can't seem to post on Reso Nation anymore I figured I'd try here.
You can also try here..........

http://www.resohangout.com/forum/

What is it you want to try to make?

They still sell cones for those I think.
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Darrell Urbien
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Post by Darrell Urbien »

Thanks for that link! To be honest, what I really want to make is a DV-styled resonator tenor guitar.

I'm asking in this forum because I was hoping someone with resonator guitar experience could explain any differences between "normal" reso parts and DV parts.

I've also only heard DV Dynamicos as played by Chet Atkins, Earl Klugh, and a host of Brazilian players, so I was curious if anyone had played them in a "Steel Guitar" context.
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Post by John Bushouse »

Paul McGill makes them here in the US, so you might try asking him some questions. See them here.
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Post by Bill Hatcher »

I have a couple of them. What is it that you want to know about them?

Here is an MP3 I made of a Bach lute piece played on the Delvechio resonator.

http://www.mediafire.com/?7jufs5btmfw
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Post by Matthew Prouty »

I have been to their factory. They sure do make good kindling for BBQ.

Just my opinion, but they are over priced junk. I am speaking of the present day product. The store is in Sta. Efigenia and the factory (if you want to call it that, its more like a shanty) is in Carapicuiba, the biggest slum town on the out skirts of Sao Paulo.

If you can get one cheap it might be worth reworking it, or a death row match stick and glue guitar will give you about the same tone.
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Post by Tom Keller »

The musical instrument makers forum used to offer a
full set of drawings for the Del Vecchio Dynamico. You might contact them and see if they still offer them. http://www.mimf.com/ Matthew's advice is on the money as far the new ones are concerned. These also are the ones being offered on Ebay from Brazil. Good luck with your efforts in building one. You might also check out the wonderful creations of Paul McGill he builds an improved version of the Del Vecchio I might add much improved. www.mcgillguitars.com
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Post by Bill Hatcher »

Darrell Urbien wrote:Thanks for that link! To be honest, what I really want to make is a DV-styled resonator tenor guitar.

I'm asking in this forum because I was hoping someone with resonator guitar experience could explain any differences between "normal" reso parts and DV parts.

.
Darrell.

The DV guitar has a sound all its own. Not loud and brash like a dobro, it's tone has plenty of volume and metallic/wooden character for recording that makes it perfect for the studio. That was the lure of Atkins when he heard it on the Los Indios recordings. Nato Lima played the heck out of his using the sustain and cut to play the most wonderful melodies with his signature vibrato. Atkins copied so much of his style. There were several Nasville players including Grady Marting that used them in the studio also. Ledgend has it that Martin actually went to Sao Paulo to get his because he wanted one so bad.

Matthew P. has first hand experience as to what the current situation is with DV..pretty much over, so we know they are not made now anything like they were in the old days. The original company goes back quite a while.

The older instruments are the ones to get. In the 80s there was a fellow down in South Georgia that was married to a girl from Sao Paulo. He would regularly make trips to the DV factory and had some Dinamico guitars custom made there that were of VERY good quality. They show up here in the US sometimes.

The instruments themselves are not of good enough quality in regards to the fret spacing to ever play in tune. All the instruments you have heard by Atkins are totally rebuilt in regards to the fingerboard to play in tune. A new board with correct fret work is imperative. The older guitars that are made of Brazillian rosewood with the large pink tuning button machine heads are THE guitars to have. You have to be careful if you see a used one as they were made through the years of totally different woods that sound very different. The 60s guitars made with solid Brazillian sides and laminated Brazillian top and back and a mahagony neck with a center section of rosewood for support are the ticket.

The DV is made in the same fashion as the National guitars. The cone sits on a ledge that is inset maybe an inch or so down in the body as opposed to a dobro where you have the cone sitting on a "spider" down in the body. There is "biscuit" sitting on top of the cone that has the saddle in it, which on the DV guitar is made of aluminum. The biscuit is made of solid rosewood that has been hollowed out a bit underneath. Also the cone is MUCH thinner than dobro cones and is very easily damaged by too much palm pressure. That is the reason for the brace you see over the biscuit, so you won't cave in the cone with too much pressure.

The construction of the guitar is very simple and you can easily build one. I have taken a cheap cutaway classical guitar, used a thin blade in a jig saw, cut the round section from the top and made the ledge for the cone and dropped in a cone with no problem. I also have two original 60s DV guitars one in long scale and one is short. The short scale guitar is the one that is highly prized by the Atkins fans. I have also heard of players putting a riser on the nut and playing them in the dobro style.

If you buy the McGill....maybe $4000+!!!! yikes!!

Contact Mel McCollugh..http://www.mcculloughguitars.com/

He would probably make you what you want in the $2000- zone. If you want to save some money and can do the work yourself, I would buy a cheap small classical guitar like a requinto or a 1/2 or 3/4 size and retro a cone in it. You will have to also retro some tuners that will let you wind on some steel strings. The plastic shaft of classical tuners will not take the pressure.

Hope this info helps.
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Post by Darrell Urbien »

Thanks all, lots of great info here! I also really enjoyed that sound clip!

I'm curious Bill, did your homemade resonator sound anything like your "real" DVs? And did you use National (or other US) parts, or did you have a stash of DV parts (i.e. the thinner cone, the rosewood biscuit, aluminum bridge)?
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Post by Bill Hatcher »

Darrell Urbien wrote:Thanks all, lots of great info here! I also really enjoyed that sound clip!

I'm curious Bill, did your homemade resonator sound anything like your "real" DVs? And did you use National (or other US) parts, or did you have a stash of DV parts (i.e. the thinner cone, the rosewood biscuit, aluminum bridge)?
I had a DV cone. I made the rest of the parts.

The guitar body was a laminated Indian Rosewood, Laminated Spruce top. It has more bass than my original DV which is a good thing. Atkins was always trying to get more bass from his. Here is a pic of it.
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Post by Darrell Urbien »

Neat! I'm reminded of Alan Brookes' Tennessee resonator thread... Now I'm off to search for a guitar to ventilate. :)

Is there any rhyme or reason to DV's placement of holes on the coverplate? Bunch of different little plastic insert shapes too.
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Post by Bill Hatcher »

Darrell Urbien wrote: Is there any rhyme or reason to DV's placement of holes on the coverplate? Bunch of different little plastic insert shapes too.
No. I have one with 10 small holes!! You really can put whatever you want.

If you go to a hardware store and ask for some round door pulls like you see on sliding closet doors, you can take those and cut the bottom out and you will have a nice round piece that looks just like the DV except in brass. If you wanted to you can take a piece of mesh cloth and stretch it out over the hole before pressing in the modified door pull. Then take a tiny sharp punch and lightly tap the metal in two places and that will keep the rim against the wood. That is what DV did. Some of the later instruments had plastic pieces inserted in the holes. The tailpiece can be made from a standard cheap import Gibson 335 tailpiece. You need to unscrew the nuts that hold on the string bar, cut the rods on both side a little shorter and rethread and bend to fit. Also there are some old vintage Kay/Harmony tailpieces on the net that are already short and will work.


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Post by Darrell Urbien »

Sorry, another question: Are all the originals ply top/back? Or are some solid - I think I've seen a spruce top version on Youtube... Bill mentions the inferior newer ones are all ply, just wondered if any ever had solid wood plates.
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Post by Bill Hatcher »

All the originals are ply top and back, solid sides.
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Post by Darrell Urbien »

Me again...

Is there a soundwell to speak of, or does the cone just sit in a ledge in the top? IOW if I get a reso kit, how much of it will I end up using?
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Post by Bill Hatcher »

Darrell Urbien wrote:Me again...

Is there a soundwell to speak of, or does the cone just sit in a ledge in the top? IOW if I get a reso kit, how much of it will I end up using?
No soundwell. Don't get a dobro kit.

Look at a national resonator guitar. Same principle. Just the ledge.
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Post by Jim Konrad »

FWIW,

Here is a short cut?

http://www.elderly.com/vintage/items/50U-1946.htm

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Post by Bill Hatcher »

Don't buy it. Not a rosewood body. Long scale also, not as desirable.
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Post by Roy Thomson »

Paul Beard, Resophonic Outfitters offers a
Delvechio Cone.

Del Vecchio 9 3/8”dia. Biscuit Bridge Cone
Code: DVC-127
Price: $85.00
Quantity in Basket: none

Roy
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Post by Darrell Urbien »

Can we assume the Elderly one has a National cone in it because a previous owner crushed the DV one?

I wonder if the ones at RO are spun here or NOS from Brazil... In any case, I'm getting one - thanks for the link, Roy!
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Post by Jim Konrad »

Bill Hatcher wrote:Don't buy it. Not a rosewood body. Long scale also, not as desirable.
You are entitled to your opinion....

I would rather have a longer scale especially on a resonator.

Longer scale= more sustain and more tension on the strings. That would load the cone a little more and provide more volume!! :D.

Darrell,

Here is another place that has em..

http://www.vintagenationals.com/nationa ... esonators/

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Post by Bill Hatcher »

Jim Konrad wrote:
Bill Hatcher wrote:Don't buy it. Not a rosewood body. Long scale also, not as desirable.
You are entitled to your opinion....

I would rather have a longer scale especially on a resonator.

Longer scale= more sustain and more tension on the strings. That would load the cone a little more and provide more volume!! :D.
This is not JUST my opinion. It is the opinion of virtually every Atkins fan who collects these.

Atkins used the short scale version because that is the version that Nato Lima used. The shorter scale allows a little lighter string tension and gets you better vibrato and string bending as is evidenced by Lima and Atkins.

The long scale DV guitar does not have any more appreciable sustain or volume than the shorter scale. I have worked on and played both scales. You load up this thin DV cone more and it just chokes off rather than getting louder. Perhaps a little thicker cone might give you more sustain and volume with more pressure, but DV did not make different cone thickness for the long or short scale.

In the collectors market the long scale does not bring as much money as the short scale to the Atkins fans. That is where I am guaging my knowledge of the value of these DV guitars.

To the uninformed buyer they might see ANY DV guitar as being worth the $1400 asked on the Elderly sight. That is not the case. The only DV guitars that have the sound that has made the DV guitar popular are the Brazillian rosewood models with the large round pink plastic button gears and cloth mesh covered sound holes mainly built in the 60s. There are several DV variations made after that. They pale in comparison in sound.

Buy what you want.

Caveat Emptor.
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Post by Darrell Urbien »

McGill's Del Vecchio Improvement Patent

It's interesting to see what he considers to be the shortcomings of this (and National reso) design. Seems like his main concern is to maximize tone while at the same time minimize string tension and weight. I hadn't noticed how his coverplate holes were laid out before either...

Hard to tell from patent drawings, but how DOES the DV coverplate get secured to the guitar? I guess I'd always thought it was screwed down like a National. Is there some kind of gasket/packing material that holds it in place? Press fit?

Here's a McGill on Youtube. Not exactly what I'd consider Atkins-like tone, but I suppose you can't expect much from Youtube postings... I can't tell if the tailpiece idea made it to production, but the coverplate ring looks a lot like the patent drawing.

Edit: FWIW, the Youtube guitarist above states the original Keaggy composition is also done on a McGill, and that studio track sounds a lot better (besides the fact that Phil's playing it) - there's much less reso-honk.
Last edited by Darrell Urbien on 26 Oct 2008 1:17 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Post by Dean Parks »

These should be strung with silk-and-steel strings, by the way.
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Post by Bill Hatcher »

[quote="Darrell UrbienHard to tell from patent drawings, but how DOES the DV coverplate get secured to the guitar? I guess I'd always thought it was screwed down like a National. Is there some kind of gasket/packing material that holds it in place? Press fit?

.[/quote]

There is an indention cut in the upper part of the ring on the top of the guitar. The cover with the holes in it lays down flat and then the white ring you see around the cover is made of a piece of thin stainless steel wire inside a plastic tube. It is made to be just the right size to sort of press into the indention and put pressure on the top. Sort of like a clip ring. Very simple as is the rest of the DV.

I know that McGill has made all these "improvements", but there is something to the cheapness, and simplicity of the DV that has to do with the sound of the guitar. You can get a great tone from the original DV guitar, and really all you need to do is put on a new fingerboard.