Is it better to pick out the song, or just use the chords?

Doug Seymour · Post by **Doug Seymour** » 21 Sep 2008 3:46 pm

Play it with three string harmony if you can't play four. Keeping the melody on top! Lots of harmony notes seem to be missing in your version??

Ron ! · Post by **Ron !** » 21 Sep 2008 3:48 pm

James my friend That was wonderful! I always stop by your my space and "appreciate" your tunes!! Keep up the good work!
Brett, my other my space friend, you are my hero! I "admire" how you play, and never let anything stop you! "God Bless" you and I hope to one day meet you in person and have you do a song with me. I am in the studio now and will be checking back at the post. You guys and gals are terrific!

Karen

Bent Romnes · Post by **Bent Romnes** » 21 Sep 2008 4:01 pm

James Kerr wrote:Karen,
Have a listen to this song I recorded today "The Rose" I only play the melody,
James Kerr
Scotland.

James, that was absolutely wonderful! To date, that is the one by you that impressed me the most. You got a dynamite sound out of that Springfield. It's got a body and richness to it like a big church organ or something. Please keep on playing "only" the melody

ed packard · Post by **ed packard** » 21 Sep 2008 4:09 pm

There are certain common chord progressions. Old country is mostly I,IV,V....swing,pop, etc. will add the II,VI. Blue moon , and a lot of other tunes use I,VIm,IIm,V7, and keep rotating around that grouping. Another common progression is I,III7,VI7,II7,V7.

The point is...if you know what the chord is, and where the chord is, chances are that on the beat the melody note is in that chord. The between beat notes may be either in the chord, or near by.

If you can hum or whistle, you can find single string melodies. If you know chords, then you can place those single strings in the chord location and have a choice of melody note only, or harmonized with a full chord, or a bit of each.

If you learn single notes in a random pattern, then when youprogess toward chords and harmonies you will have to relearn the note locations.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 21 Sep 2008 5:35 pm

Stu Where do we send the check.. just kidding!

Casey the sub melody you refer to is
either a harmonization
or partial harmonization if it is only in places.
Doing complimentary chords close to the melody
is like back up singers ooohs if done well.

But you can't do it well without knowing the melody well.

chicken egg chicken omlete.

Ed P., as usual a great explanation.

Pete Burak · Post by **Pete Burak** » 21 Sep 2008 6:17 pm

In practice (i.e. on gigs) I choose to work up what I like to call "variations on the melody"... this could also be called "embellishing the melody"
I personally rarely if ever work up a "direct clone" of the melody. With that said I must say it takes alot of discipline to do so, both mentally and technically.
I think it's important that the listener could name every song in the set based on a replay of the steel solo alone (melody), but it is also critical that the listener come away thinking, wow that guy played a cool solo that not only incorporated the melody but also incorporated some cool improvisational playing.

It's what separates us from the...
"Planet Of The Harmonica Players"
Sorry but I hate it when those guys just grab a different harp and play the same ol' solo.
We need to avoid this.

Karen Lee Steenwijk · Post by **Karen Lee Steenwijk** » 21 Sep 2008 7:41 pm

Like mentioned in the first post did I start with the Steel Guitar 2 weeks ago.
And after 2 weeks this is what I recorded tonight.Your opinion would be very much appreciated.

The song is called "My Hearts Baby Blue"<----click

Matthew Prouty · Post by **Matthew Prouty** » 21 Sep 2008 8:33 pm

Karen,

Your doing awesome! Forget about what people tell you to play, just play what you feel. Thats what music is. There only one thing to do, learn to impart emotion into your playing as best you can.

You are right on track. Must be great having a great mentor in casa like Ron.

I enjoyed the track.

m.

Stuart Legg · Post by **Stuart Legg** » 21 Sep 2008 8:59 pm

James Kerr wrote in response to my comment about wanting my money back if the greats just played the melody...

How much do I owe you?

James you are one of the greats. You owe me some hot licks.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 21 Sep 2008 11:49 pm

Karen 2 weeks playin!!!
Well you're doing just fine.
It immediately made me think Loretta Lynn.
You are phrasing like a singer. Brava!
That is what so many miss.

Peep on kickin'

EDIT

Well I just listened to the Rose and the saw your myspace page.
Loretta is in you through and through.

A few more months and Patsy will be in your playing too.

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 22 Sep 2008 2:02 am

Karen Lee ! wrote:What I am currently working on is a song that I wrote.

I was going to put in my $.02, but after listening, it's only worth a penny, because you're way ahead of me.
It was very easy to hear the melody in the leading tones on your song. Were you to add a vocal, for instance--and it would be a good experiment--the picking might be too busy; but at 2:00, your ride appears and would be a good one.

I have written many songs,but it is much easier when I am singing from the heart to express the feeling in the song.

A good example is Rick Schmidt's version of 'Goodbye Porkpie Hat.
I agree, the vocal melody sets the tone and the spacing. It would be hard for me to do with a vocal to play off of, even while accompanying yourself.

My steel now must become my "Voice".

And that's the main thing, finding one's voice.
I thought I found my voice, then I got a pedal steel, that voice I've heard over the years that I can't get out of my mind.
One might say the steel will, rather than 'must', become your voice, as the steel is a singing instrument.

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 22 Sep 2008 2:04 am

Karen Lee ! wrote:What I am currently working on is a song that I wrote.

I was going to put in my $.02, but after listening, it's only worth a penny, because you're way ahead of me.
It was very easy to hear the melody in the leading tones on your song. Were you to add a vocal, for instance--and it would be a good experiment--the picking might be too busy; but at 2:00, your ride appears and would be a good one.

I have written many songs,but it is much easier when I am singing from the heart to express the feeling in the song.

A good example is Rick Schmidt's version of 'Goodbye Porkpie Hat.
I agree, the vocal melody sets the tone and the spacing. It would be hard for me to do with a vocal to play off of, even while accompanying yourself.

My steel now must become my "Voice".

And that's the main thing, finding one's voice.
I thought I found my voice, then I got a pedal steel, that voice I've heard over the years that I can't get out of my mind.
One might say the steel will, rather than 'must', become your voice, as the steel is a singing instrument.

Bill Stafford · Post by **Bill Stafford** » 22 Sep 2008 3:29 am

Karen, you have received advice and suggestions from the best players and most knowledgable musicians in the world, I suppose. Good to see their response to your search.
Depends on the folks you want to play to and for. One of my friends, a very popular DJ and a great musician, was visiting one day. I told him I had a steel instrumental album by a famous player and one song on his album was one that my friend had played on stage many, many times. (He was a vocalist also and usually sang that song once or twice a night from requests from his audience). I asked him to listen to this song and see if he could tell me the name. We listened to it a few times and he could not tell the name. Afterwards, when I told him the name, he was very surprised and then was able to recognize the pattern and was amazed with the player's ability. That was Curly Chalker playing "Wolverton Mountain".
There is a place for your music. Lear all you can and then enjoy all you do. Jerry Byrd could play a melody on one string all the way through and everyone would listen to this MASTER and when he added all his harmony notes, it was much enhanced and more steel players were in AWE of his talent. Especially me.
Donnie, Carl, Ed, Bobbe and all have the best advice for you. You play the most impressive expressive instrument in the world. And stick to Roy's advice to-KISS-(keep it simply sweet)
I have a very old album of Jerry Byrd playing with a Mexican symphony orchestra and one selection Jerry is playing single note harmony notes to a lady opera singer-absolutely breathtaking.
Bill Stafford

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 22 Sep 2008 4:43 am

I don't think you'll make the Hall of Fame sticking to the melody.
If I went to a concert or personal appearance of any of the greats and they just played the melody with I don't care how many chords they added I'd want my money back.

Stuart, I do not mean ANY disrespect whatsoever, but I am thinking about something:

One of the first persons ever elected to the Steel Guitar Hall of fame, was Jerry Byrd (along with Leon McAuliff and Alvino Rey). Also, Buddy Emmons was elected shortly thereafter (the next year if I am not mistaken). Then Lloyd Green.

I know of no musicians who have ever stuck more closely to the "melody" line than these. In fact I will go so far as to state that with Buddy, EVEN in his "wildest" takeoffs, one can STILL hear the melody throughout. It is part of his gifted genius, IMO.

Something for all to think about.

c.

David L. Donald · Post by **David L. Donald** » 22 Sep 2008 4:50 am

Carl, like a great Ragu.. "It's In There!"

Lem Smith · Post by **Lem Smith** » 22 Sep 2008 5:19 am

Carl, this Emmons and Green that you speak of, are they pedal steel guitarists? I think I have heard of them, and if it's the guys I'm thinking of, they've got pretty good potential. If they'll keep practicing, they might even make it to the big time someday!

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 22 Sep 2008 5:58 am

IN fact, they might even make it to my level, which is 3 shades below absolute ZERO; which I think is about 457 degrees below the absolute bottom of the "temper(ature)ed" scale.

Stuart Legg · Post by **Stuart Legg** » 22 Sep 2008 9:15 am

My point is that if you had never heard the song before and all you heard was the PSG intro, fill, solo, and outro you would have no idea what the melody was. That goes for the old and the new country.
Are you trying to tell me that these PSG greats made the Hall of Fame just based on their ability to play the melody and their technical ability and creative adlibs had nothing to do with it.

ed packard · Post by **ed packard** » 22 Sep 2008 9:50 am

Remember when the steel used the last line of the song (melody) as the intro, the melody line of the song as the break, and the last line again as the turn off?

Then came the gattling gun crowd= more is better, faster is better yet, melody only in desperation.

Karen Lee Steenwijk · Post by **Karen Lee Steenwijk** » 22 Sep 2008 11:37 am

I mailed my good friend Lloyd Green and asked him for his opinion on what I recorded.Here is his reply that I just received.Thought I would share this with you all.

Hello dear Karen,
"My Hearts Baby Blue" is not bad, not bad at all for two weeks into playing the steel! I'm impressed. You should make rapid improvement since you're already this far. Of course, it doesn't hurt that you have Ron around to instruct and critique.
I've offered many times to teach Dot a little about the steel, but she says this house isn't big enough for two players. So she just listens.....and has always been my biggest help, love and booster, especially in the early, lean, teen years when I was already a very advanced player, as good as anybody in Nashville; but our "session" years were in the future.
We were married when we were both.....are you ready for this?......19!
That was 52 years ago, when Dot was the main person who understood my talent and passion for the steel guitar. The session doors opened for me in 1964 when I was in my mid-20s. But the hard times when I arrived in Nashville from college were shared with Dot during the first arid 6 years, so we later accepted and appreciated success as the product of work, thought, practice, introspection, talent and to some extent good luck.
In essence, really good players can have heroes too. Dot is and always will be mine. I do love that gal!
You and Ron enjoy the music together. Give him my hello.

Warmest regards,

Lloyd

C Dixon · Post by **C Dixon** » 22 Sep 2008 12:25 pm

Are you trying to tell me that these PSG greats made the Hall of Fame just based on their ability to play the melody and their technical ability and creative adlibs had nothing to do with it.

Heavens no!

Glenn Thompson · Post by **Glenn Thompson** » 22 Sep 2008 12:53 pm

Great job Karen! It's good to see more ladies taking up the steel guitar. This topic has been most interesting and informative.

Tamara.....pass the popcorn please

Bent Romnes · Post by **Bent Romnes** » 22 Sep 2008 1:40 pm

Karen, according to what I hear when listening to Baby Blue, I would say that you have been doing some serious studying of music and the steel. I also hear hours and hours of practice there.
Keep up the same work ethic and you can't help but get good!

Karen Lee Steenwijk · Post by **Karen Lee Steenwijk** » 22 Sep 2008 2:44 pm

Yes! hours, and hours of practice, but ya know? It is such an "amazing instrument" that its more challenging everyday! When I first started, I played one string lol.... and no foot pedals.I drove "Ron" crazy. But himself being a "Steeler also". He didn't mind.I am still in all the beginning stages, with more years of "Practice" and many things yet to learn.I thank- you folks for all the nice comments even though am a "newbie" I hope that this post goes on so that more information can be read. You guys are pros and I know that some of you have been playing many years.I admire all of you!
Lets keep this going...because "Tamara" might have that popcorn!

Karen

Wayne Franco · Post by **Wayne Franco** » 22 Sep 2008 2:49 pm

One of my favorite albums is the Bobby Flores album Neon Nights. Rick Price plays the first 3 cuts. Country Girl, I'm so afraid of Losing you Again and The Same Old Memories. For some reason those three cuts really hit me as having great steel guitar back up. He really plays diatonicaly (Chord based licks based upon the chords withing the scale). Because of that it seems he gets away with playing a lot more than most, while sounding good and harmonious with Bobby singing. I know I am being quite specific here. So many ways to play, so little time.

Wayne

The Steel Guitar Forum

Is it better to pick out the song, or just use the chords?

the Rose

melody or chords...how about both

Advice(?)

memories

I think playing diatonically will allow you to play a more