Why only one pickup on pedal steel?

Peter Siegel · Post by **Peter Siegel** » 28 Aug 2008 2:27 pm

With the exception of Sneaky Pete, I do not know of any steel players regularly using a multi-pickup guitar.
Why don't steel guitars feature them as a matter of course?
Who has experimented with them, and what were the results?
Just wondering.

Peter

Why does a flamingo stand on one leg?
Because if he pulled them both up, he'd fall over.

Michael Douchette · Post by **Michael Douchette** » 28 Aug 2008 2:43 pm

Uh... because steel guitar got it right the first time?

Seriously, I don't think you can put enough distance between the two to make a significant difference. It's been done, but it's never really caught on.

Danny Naccarato · Post by **Danny Naccarato** » 28 Aug 2008 2:47 pm

Gary Hogue had a pair on his Mullen and other guitars.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 28 Aug 2008 3:01 pm

Some guitars (like early 'Buds) featured them, but I think they lost popularity because they got in the way of the picking hand. Anyhow, most players like fair amounts of treble. Only players like Curly Chalker and Jim Murphy used rather bassy sounds, and they could still get plenty of bass with the right amp.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 28 Aug 2008 3:12 pm

If I remember the youtube videos I saw of Paul Franklin with Dire Straits and The Notting Hillbillies, he had double pickups on the Franklins he used.

Edit: Just watched of few of the Franklin videos and the guitar that was 2 tone red (maybe brown) and yellow had 2 pickups, at least on the front neck.

Austin Tripp · Post by **Austin Tripp** » 28 Aug 2008 4:05 pm

Hey Richard,, I believe that guitar has 2 Lawrence 705 pickups in it.

Also, Jackson Steel Guitars makes a guitar "the extreme" with two pickups in it. I can not play one with 2 pu's in it.

Bob Hoffnar · Post by **Bob Hoffnar** » 28 Aug 2008 6:10 pm

Desert Rose is making a 2 pickup steel:
http://www.desertroseguitars.com/

Dan Tyack swears by his neck pickup.

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 28 Aug 2008 9:25 pm

I have 2 pickups on my Sho-Bud Maverick. Also, Jackson makes a model with 2 pickups.
www.jacksonsteelguitar.com/guitars-xtreme.cfm

Frankly, there's just not a demand for multiple pickups. On electric guitar you switch from lead to rhythm. Most steel players just play lead.

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 29 Aug 2008 7:58 am

I *love* my two pickup Desert Rose. The key is to get the second pickup far enough from the bridge pickup. I have mine in roughly SG position. I have a Lawrence 705 in the bridge position and a Tonealigner in the neck position. This guitar rocks, it sounds as good as my lap steel (long scale Valco with a Gibson PAF added in the neck position). The pickup does get in the way, but the additional tonal versatility is worth it.

It's not as simple as wanting a 'bassy' versus 'trebly' sound. A pickup in the neck position has a very different tonal quality, a 'throatiness' that you just can't get from a bridge pickup. And the 'both pickup' sound is great too. With the current configuration it makes the pedal steel sound like a fat stratocaster (very similar to a tone that Buddy got on a late 70s Roy Head record that he played with the basket weave 12 string guitar). The in-between sound is also great for doing the Mooney thing.

Of course, it all depends what you are looking for. I think most steel players are perfectly happy with a single pickup, since most of the sounds they are trying to achieve were played with single pickup guitars.

I'll post some sound clips.

Twayn Williams · Post by **Twayn Williams** » 29 Aug 2008 11:53 am

My PSG will be a Desert Rose because I can get 2 pups. Also, Stringmasters have 2 pickups per neck. Personally, I'd like a steel with the same tonal variety as a good Strat.

And while we're at it, why don't PSG's have volume and tone knobs??? I've more than once thought about going to a Fender 1000 for the volume/tone knobs.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 29 Aug 2008 3:16 pm

And while we're at it, why don't PSG's have volume and tone knobs??? I've more than once thought about going to a Fender 1000 for the volume/tone knobs.

Some guitars used to. The volume knob is actually unecessary as you have a volume pedal for that function. Tone controls are still on some guitars (Emmons still have them if my memory serves me correctly) and could be cool.

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 29 Aug 2008 3:17 pm

My Williams has a tone control.

Tony Glassman · Post by **Tony Glassman** » 29 Aug 2008 4:06 pm

I tried the "Extreme" in the Jackson room at the last Dallas show. The two pickup combo afforded some interesting strat-like tonal possibilities.

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 29 Aug 2008 9:13 pm

Twayn Williams wrote:My PSG will be a Desert Rose because I can get 2 pups. Also, Stringmasters have 2 pickups per neck. Personally, I'd like a steel with the same tonal variety as a good Strat.

And while we're at it, why don't PSG's have volume and tone knobs??? I've more than once thought about going to a Fender 1000 for the volume/tone knobs.

I'm with you Twayn. Except I also want to get the sound of the`front pickup of an SG. My current Desert Rose setup has this.

Larry Weaver · Post by **Larry Weaver** » 30 Aug 2008 4:41 am

Wow, great thread! I've been really thinking about this a lot lately.

Dan, how different is your Desert Rose set up from the standard build?

I'm wondering if the Desert Rose or the Xtreme are available in a U-12 configuration. If they are, I see one of these in my future.

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 30 Aug 2008 9:02 am

Larry, the only difference is a neck which tapers later than the standard neck.

I had considered doing this to one of my Franklins, but I couldn't bring myself to chopping the aluminum neck.

chas smith R.I.P. · Post by **chas smith R.I.P.** » 30 Aug 2008 10:45 am

ed packard · Post by **ed packard** » 30 Aug 2008 11:23 am

There are a few around...the changer is on the other end. Both pickups are tapped. Each tap can be in parallel or series, and be phased. The two pickups can be parallel or serial and phased. In the pic, the front pickup is off (pulled back). They are both interchangeable.

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 30 Aug 2008 11:42 am

My Desert Rose has the neck pickup a little further towards the neck than with Ed's or Chas' guitars. I wanted to get something like the relative spacing of an SG or a Les Paul, but this made it nessesary for Chuck to use a different neck.

Note that this picture is with a Truetone on the neck position. I've replaced it with a Tonealigner, which is better for what I'm going for (I like the sound of a PAF style humbucker in that position).

Olli Haavisto · Post by **Olli Haavisto** » 30 Aug 2008 12:44 pm

I think the neck pups on most electrics like strats teles and pauls are on or near the 24th fret. Polepieces at the fret, approx.

Do I detect a slight Derek Trucks influence here , Dan ?

I was just watching the Song Lines DVD yesterday and wondered how many different tones he gets out of the neck pup of the SG...

I wonder if someone could make a pickup thin enough to just slide under the strings and attach temporarily with doublesided tape or something ? You`d be able to nail the sweet spot by trial and error.....

ed packard · Post by **ed packard** » 30 Aug 2008 1:38 pm

RE volume and tone controls...as an option, OK. I have two jacks on my instruments...one is a utility to be used for Volume/tone modules, staccato switch( ham radio bug?, tuner, other "stuff". The strip above the jacks is velcro for quick mount of whatever.

The nect pic shows an M-Audio box mounted on the velcro strip, and being the USB interface to the computer.

The next pic shows the computer screen for the computer used as an electronic rack = effects/patches/backup tracks etc. from there it is bluetooth wireless to the amp(s).

As for a thin moveable pickup, the next pics show the one that I use. I use stick on magnetic strips...one on the neck where I want the pickup, and on on the pickup = just slide on and off.

Dan Tyack · Post by **Dan Tyack** » 30 Aug 2008 9:34 pm

Olli Haavisto wrote:
Do I detect a slight Derek Trucks influence here , Dan ? I was just watching the Song Lines DVD yesterday and wondered how many different tones he gets out of the neck pup of the SG...

Bingo!

You are absolutely right, Olli. I have played with Derek a number of times, the last time I even played using his backup Super Reverb. And his tone still kicked my *&^%$. So I asked him about pickups, and he said that he uses his neck pickup most of the time.

That's when I added a Gibson PAF in my lap steel, and started investigating adding a second PU in a pedal steel. My Desert Rose guitar has that basic SG sound now. Unfortunately, Derek's touch and talent doesn't automatically come along, but at least I can start in the same ballpark.

Dean Parks · Post by **Dean Parks** » 31 Aug 2008 1:45 pm

Ed, where do you get those pickups? Do they sound ok?

ed packard · Post by **ed packard** » 31 Aug 2008 1:55 pm

Dean...I made them myself many years ago.
They are differential wound and Lo-Z; requires differential input amplifier.
Being Lo-Z the sound is quite flat...not what most folk expect from a standard pickup and regular amp settings...that is achieved via filtering.

Dean Parks · Post by **Dean Parks** » 31 Aug 2008 3:52 pm

Ed, do you have any sound samples?

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