Which classic steel amp would you want see remade?

Justin Lee · Post by **Justin Lee** » 8 Jul 2008 10:28 am

Guys,

I was at Bobbe Seymour's place last week and I was looking at a copy of his "Priceless" CD with him standing in front of a couple of nice old Standel amps with the cool JBLs with aluminum domes. It got me to thinking: Are there any of the old steel amps that are loved enough for any of you to want them reissued?

The reason I ask is because I've made a small business over the years in buying old Fender, Ampeg, Vox & Marshall tube amps in varying states of repair, fixing them up as new and sending them back into the world to be used and enjoyed for another few decades.

I have a partner who's developed his own reissue of the '66 Supro Thunderbolt, and we've collaborated on a couple of small projects for local players, but the world has enough people making 5E3 Deluxe clones to last a lifetime, so we haven't yet tried building and marketing a boutique amp designed on a classic guitar amp.

I'm wondering if things are different with the steel guitar world. Is there a classic all-tube steel amp that hasn't been manufactured in awhile that you guys would consider buying if someone made a boutique version, or are all these solid state Peaveys considered the holy grail of tone and reliability?

Just curious,

Justin Lee
Atlanta, Ga.

Ken Pippus · Post by **Ken Pippus** » 8 Jul 2008 11:38 am

Vibrasonic Reverb, silverface, no master volume.
KP

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 8 Jul 2008 11:42 am

A silver-face Princeton Reverb with a 12" JBL clone, such as a Weber California. For steel, I'd want it to play clean to the top, like a stock silver-face (none of those headroom robbing black-face mods).

A silver-face Vibrolux Reverb chassis in a custom cabinet with a 15" JBL clone, such as the Weber California. Again, setup to play clean to the top.

A Tweed Pro with a 15" speaker.

For the more powerful models, they are pretty much covered by silver-face Twins, Showmans and Super Twins. But these days people prefer these anvil-weight amps split up into head cabinets.

Finally, any of the above could benefit from a mod that would give two switchable channels. One would be a clean channel playing clean to the top. The other would be a dirty channel with some crunch and breakup, and one-half and one-quarter power cut switches. This would be of great use for steelers who double on regular guitar, or for steelers who play both clean country and dirty blues-rock.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 8 Jul 2008 2:53 pm

Justin, is the Thunderbolt the one with a 15" speaker? My best friend, and my tech, has a like new Supro with a 15. We tried it with a pair of Mullard EL-37s that I keep in my safety deposit box. What a wonderful amp! Trem to die for!
DD, my silverface PR has had the Stokes mod and xformer changes. A 12" Celestion, tilt back legs, and is very cleanly biased. 20 watts.
What would I like to see? Standel.

Alvin Blaine · Post by **Alvin Blaine** » 8 Jul 2008 2:56 pm

David Doggett wrote:A silver-face Princeton Reverb with a 12" JBL clone, such as a Weber California. For steel, I'd want it to play clean to the top, like a stock silver-face (none of those headroom robbing black-face mods).

Fender just reissued the Black-Face Princeton Reverb. The thing list for more than the original Silver-Face ones are selling for.
You would probably be better off finding an old Silver-Face and fixing it up, than to wish for a Reissue at a much higher price.
Nothin' against Fender, it's just some of their "reissue" prices are a little out there. Almost like someone in the marketing department saw that all the old Black-Face Princeton reverb's sell on eBay for over $1200, so they decided to reissue it at that price.

David Doggett wrote: A Tweed Pro with a 15" speaker.

That's one of my favorite amps, and there are a few boutique builders making the 5D5 and 5E5 style amps. Some really nice ones out there.

Billy Tonnesen · Post by **Billy Tonnesen** » 8 Jul 2008 3:27 pm

For a while sometime in the 50's myself and several othe steel players used the Fender "Bassman" with four 12" speakers with a Fender reverb. I believe at one time Curly Chalker used two of these. (could be mistaken). I don't remember the wattage but it had a lot of power and presence and no distortion.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 8 Jul 2008 4:26 pm

I'd like to see the point-to point wired Fenders come back, since it could all be done robotically now. That's right - discrete components, axial leads, soldered into an eyelet board, all done by a machine.

robert kramer · Post by **robert kramer** » 8 Jul 2008 4:59 pm

A 1977 Fender Dual Showman Reverb. The year they went to 135 watts.

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 8 Jul 2008 7:23 pm

How about a Selmer Zodiac Twin 50?!!!!!!

Is there a better sounding guitar amp?

Brad

Lynn Oliver · Post by **Lynn Oliver** » 8 Jul 2008 7:29 pm

Bronson Singing Electric with the field coil speaker:

Roger Edgington · Post by **Roger Edgington** » 8 Jul 2008 7:34 pm

A tube Standel is as sweet as I have heard.

Jim Peters · Post by **Jim Peters** » 8 Jul 2008 8:26 pm

Brown Fender pro with a 15. I think it would make a great steel amp(add verb of course.) JP

Ken Byng · Post by **Ken Byng** » 9 Jul 2008 2:14 am

Brad Sarno wrote:How about a Selmer Zodiac Twin 50?!!!!!!

Is there a better sounding guitar amp?

Brad

Brad - I had one when I was a teenager in the 60's. It really looked the business with the crocodile skin vinyl, but for sound I preferred the Vox AC30 for guitar. The Zodiacs are fetching ridiculously high prices in the UK - if you can find one that is.

Mike Brown · Post by **Mike Brown** » 9 Jul 2008 5:12 am

Are we considering the price?

James Morehead · Post by **James Morehead** » 9 Jul 2008 5:34 am

oh yes, definately the fender point to point wired amps.

In the Peavey camp, the OLD style Session 400 and LTD.

Jim Bates · Post by **Jim Bates** » 9 Jul 2008 6:10 am

The Sho-Bud solid state amp designed and made by Kenneth Cain when he worked for Sho-Bud (not the Christmas tree or tube amps). The Peavy NV 112 comes close to that sound, but I would like the simple tone controls: Bass, Mid, Treble, Presence.

This amp had the cleanest, most natural, reverb quality which I have found ONLY in the Session 500.

At 50watt output, it was great for smaller clubs, but not the big dancehalls.

Would like to have another one!

Thanx,
Jim

Brad Sarno · Post by **Brad Sarno** » 9 Jul 2008 7:52 am

The Cain Sho-Bud amp is a cool choice. What's interesting about the Cain Sho-Bud is it's almost exactly a Fender Twin Reverb, only a few mods were made so that instead of tubes, it could use transistors (JFETs). But overall, you really could almost call it a transistorized Fender Twin Reverb, especially in the preamp section.

Johan Jansen · Post by **Johan Jansen** » 9 Jul 2008 7:57 am

Old Italian Farfissa amp with Jensen Speakers, mmmmmmmmm

Dave Zirbel · Post by **Dave Zirbel** » 9 Jul 2008 8:08 am

I vote for the Cain SHo Bud. Best amp I've heard for steel. The one I heard had an Altec 418 in it.

Ken Pippus · Post by **Ken Pippus** » 9 Jul 2008 8:38 am

I think people have forgotten the steel amp used by the most players for the most public appearances, with no real downside, and dozens of satisfied players making public testimonials. Oh my, I wish you could still buy an amplifier as good as a Nashville 112.

KP

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 9 Jul 2008 8:40 am

KP, that's hardly the point of this thread! I like the little Peavey, but my Twin will blow it off the stage tone-wise. But of course, that's just my opinion, and has nothin' to do with this either.

chas smith R.I.P. · Post by **chas smith R.I.P.** » 9 Jul 2008 2:09 pm

'56 Tweed Pro with the original, Fender issue, JBL D130. The last time the Buena Vista Social Club played LA, Ry borrowed it because no one would sell him one.

'59 Standel 80L15 with an Altec 418B. I have a couple of "piggy backs", but this is the one that has the sound.

For a nice warm sound, Ampeg Super Echo Twin. Supposedly they only made them in '61 and '62, but the codes on this one are from '63. Basically, it's a pair of Reverb Rockets.

Mid '30s Gibson 185, if you want the Charlie Christian sound.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 9 Jul 2008 2:36 pm

Justin Lee wrote:Is there a classic all-tube steel amp that hasn't been manufactured in awhile that you guys would consider buying if someone made a boutique version, or are all these solid state Peaveys considered the holy grail of tone and reliability?

Well, the history, as I remember it, is that for years steelers had to make do with guitar amps that didn't have enough clean headroom. It wasn't about the sheer volume, but about being able to sustain very clean chords with the volume pedal. With the advent of country rock in the late '60s and '70s, stage volumes got much louder, and even a 100-135 watt Twin Reverb couldn't keep up. The volume might have been there if you stomped your volume pedal, but then you had no pedal left for sustain. The 180 watt Super Twin solved this problem, but they were only made a couple of years, and apparently not many steelers knew about them.

When Peavey came out with 200 watt, very clean, solid state amps, it solved the clean power problem. And they used the steelers' favored 15" speakers for that thick organ-like voice. And Peavey went a step further and offered extremely versatile tone controls designed for getting good steel tone. Their amps were also priced for the working country musician. The pedal steel community switched over to Peavey's and a few other solid-state steel amps.

Now days amps are miked, and stage volumes no longer need to be stadium level. Always responsive to steelers needs, Peavey recently came out with the 80 watt SS NV112. It gets enough of the big clean SS steel tone to be useful for quieter gigs, or for miking. And their smaller size and lightweight appeal to the aging steeler community. Many steelers are use to that very clean, powerful SS Peavey sound.

But there is a fairly substantial minority that find that sound a bit sterile. For many of these, the clean playing silver-face Fenders have been found to be an ideal compromise between the break up of typical guitar tube amps, and the sterile cleanliness of SS steel amps. The SF Twins, Showmans, and Vibrosonics are having a comeback. Smaller SF amps can also now be used if they are miked. But there is a mid-power gap in the old Fender SF line. A SF Pro (60 watts) is in that middle range, but they are the same size and almost as heavy as a Twin. The SF Deluxe can be miked adequately, but has trouble with very loud stage volumes, and many small rock clubs do not mike the amps. The SF Vibrolux would be just about right to be the tube equivalent of the NV112. But the 2x10 speakers just do not have the classic steel voice of a 15" speaker. A SF Vibrolux clone with a 15" speaker, or even a 12" would be a very desirable amp for steelers who want tube tone in a mid-sized amp. A Tweed Pro 15" clone, maybe with a little more power than the original, would also be very interesting, especially for lap steel, and to double as a guitar amp.

I have tried the reissue Tweed Twin, but it is a little too bright for steel. A 15" speaker with that might be fantastic.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 9 Jul 2008 3:00 pm

Just a few more thoughts. Unlike rock and pop, which are always played at the maximum volume tolerable, there is a very wide range of volume levels for country music steelers. Some of the big dance halls that have modern rock-country are about as loud as rock. Even with the amps miked, the stage volume can be very loud. But many older country steelers play small clubs, VFW posts, etc., where the volume is quite low. And vintage style country and Hawaiian lap steelers, may not use the volume pedal like pedal steelers, and can do with low volume vintage amps. That is why you will find many country steelers saying the 80 watt NV112 is plenty for them, and others will need a 300 watt NV1000.

There is now a whole crop of younger steelers, lap and pedal steel, that play in "roots" bands that play a mix of rock, blues, country-rock, classic country, alt-country, singer-songwriter folk-rock, etc. I play this stuff in small clubs that don't mike the amps, and the volume level is expected to be fairly high. For some of that stuff, I need a low-mid power amp with some tube grit. But then a classic country or country-rock song comes along that requires clean sustain with lots of headroom. A big clean tube amp (in a head cab) with a lower-power dirty channel would sure be nice. Also, that would be good for country steelers that double on guitar.

Richard Sinkler · Post by **Richard Sinkler** » 9 Jul 2008 8:53 pm

I would actually like to see the Sho~Bud "Christmas Tree" make a comeback.

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