Nashville ain't Nashville anymore

Doyle Weigold · Post by **Doyle Weigold** » 6 Jul 2008 5:05 pm

I started this thing three times now, and I know it's been road to death here on the forum, but I used to go to Nashville at least 3-4 times a year. For years I set the third week of Oct. aside to go to the DJ Convention if nothing else, after I quit playing music for a living, I still tried to make it to Nashville 2-3 times a year to steal a few licks from musicians I saw at "Printers ally" "Demons Den" "Gabes" to name a few. That is pretty well gone now. Of course in the era that I am talking about super pickers Buddy Emmons, Jimmy Crawford, Curly Chaulker etc. was inventing all the new licks. I don't mean to knock studio musicians today, but I don't hear new licks now that I heard back then. I don't hear the new twist on words as far as writing songs go, that I heard back then. I don't even know how to pitch a song anymore I guess. OK, lay it on me. Give me hell or tell me to stay home or something. Still pickin' a different place every weekend. Doyle

AJ Azure · Post by **AJ Azure** » 6 Jul 2008 6:14 pm

You are afflicted with old geezer syndrome. oddly it can strike as young as your late 20s. In old geezer syndrome you constantly lament the fact that it'a just not like it used to be in the old days, you used to walk in the snow with no shoes, etc.m, etc. Don't worry about it! Enjoy what you like let other people do what they want to do musiclaly and quit lamenting. it's wasted energy.

Clyde Mattocks · Post by **Clyde Mattocks** » 6 Jul 2008 7:43 pm

Al, we wouldn't mind so much if they just didn't call
what they're doing "A five mile walk in the snow with no shoes!"

Webb Kline · Post by **Webb Kline** » 6 Jul 2008 7:47 pm

My son used to have a bumper sticker on his car that said, "You laugh at me because I'm different; I laugh at you because you're all the same." It defined the boy to a tee. But, when it comes right down to it, he's but a chip off the old block. I'm an incurable nonconformist and I guess that's why I don't fit in with the music scene downtown--nor do I want to. Call it old geezer syndrome or whatever, but I'm an artist because I feel compelled to express myself, to be original; because playing is my emotional release and my primary means of communicating new ideas, current feelings, fond and not-so-fond memories, the struggle of life and the hope of a better tomorrow. If someone else's licks find their way into my repertoire, it's because I connected with them on a deeper level, or else because or was purely coincidental. True, I don't have a bag full of all the latest cliched licks, but what I have is what I need to say what I need to say with my music. Perhaps I am an old geezer, but by golly, I sure wish more people would write music because they're different rather than trying to sound like everybody else. The redundancy is driving me mad.

AJ Azure · Post by **AJ Azure** » 6 Jul 2008 8:50 pm

my point is do your thing, love it and let everyone else do theirs/ no point in fretting about what others do musically. you can't change it nor should you waste good creative energy on it.

Charles Davidson · Post by **Charles Davidson** » 6 Jul 2008 9:40 pm

We old geezers have one thing in common,we were lucky to experience Real country,REAL pop,and the birth of REAL rock,AND the great doo-wop artist.REAL music that lives on,the late night infomericials prove it's still in demand.DYKBC.

Nick Reed · Post by **Nick Reed** » 6 Jul 2008 10:39 pm

Doyle,
I couldn't agree with you more. I grew up just 60 miles north of here in Nashville. Remember quite vividly all the good country stuff we used to get to hear. It ain't like that anymore. People like Pete Fisher have turned the Grand Ole Opry into a Broadway Stage presentation. I see it the same way Dale Watson does. Anymore I tell people they can come and hear more real country music on one of my shows than they can at the Opry.
I really appreciate the efforts of RFD-TV by running classic country TV shows like Porter Wagoner & the Wilburn Brothers. It's nostalgic and it's gooooood! Heck, I even like the Midwest Country Show from Sandstone, MN on saturday nights as bad as it is.

Nick

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 7 Jul 2008 1:29 am

I thought this thread was talking about LIVE music in downtown Nville ?

I also go 3 or 4 times a year myself and I always find some great players pickin' in one of the clubs. Of course there are a few that are duds as well, overplaying, not playing the songs, etc.... I guess we could ban all Steel guitars from ALL of the clubs.

I guess I am having a hard time understanding that Jimmy Snyder over at Toostsies is not a Country Boy...generally he has a very fine player with him playing ALL of the leads and fills.

Printers Alley, thats got nothing to do with music, all the music and spectators were run off by the homeless and "tutes". The smell alone will cause you to head back to Kansas..

I guess I just can't accept a blanket statement that everything was better 3 decades ago and nothing is good today. I also sat directly across from Gene O'Neal in the Alley and most recently across from Randy Beavers at the Wheel.Both seemed pretty good to me !

IF we are going to Nashville to hear the next Buddy Emmons at the Stage, thats probably not going to happen .

I could always play my 25 year old Ray Price record of Night Life , you know, the version where they replaced the Steel with a String section.

enjoy the music...

Michael Johnstone · Post by **Michael Johnstone** » 7 Jul 2008 1:45 am

"The good old days are gone forever and the new ones ain't far behind" Bob Dylan

Steve Morley · Post by **Steve Morley** » 7 Jul 2008 3:13 am

Webb Kline wrote:My son used to have a bumper sticker on his car that said, "You laugh at me because I'm different; I laugh at you because you're all the same." It defined the boy to a tee. But, when it comes right down to it, he's but a chip off the old block. I'm an incurable nonconformist and I guess that's why I don't fit in with the music scene downtown--nor do I want to. Call it old geezer syndrome or whatever, but I'm an artist because I feel compelled to express myself, to be original; because playing is my emotional release and my primary means of communicating new ideas, current feelings, fond and not-so-fond memories, the struggle of life and the hope of a better tomorrow. If someone else's licks find their way into my repertoire, it's because I connected with them on a deeper level, or else because or was purely coincidental. True, I don't have a bag full of all the latest cliched licks, but what I have is what I need to say what I need to say with my music. Perhaps I am an old geezer, but by golly, I sure wish more people would write music because they're different rather than trying to sound like everybody else. The redundancy is driving me mad.

Well said, Webb.

Olli Haavisto · Post by **Olli Haavisto** » 7 Jul 2008 6:28 am

Visited NYC and couldn`t find Benny Goodman anywhere.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 7 Jul 2008 7:52 am

The old days are gone, and they ain't comin' back. You're right - Nashville is not the Nashville of the 60s or 70s. But I'm confident that can be said of most any large city in the US and probably the world. I'm from Boston - it definitely ain't the same. In fact, the changes there are more pervasive, IMO.

I was just in Nashville last week, and there was absolutely no lack of great live music. Lots of it. You need to pick and choose along Broadway to find a particular style, and go out into the outlying areas sometimes. All the good music wasn't country, but there was country and western swing in spades.

For example, Monday nights, there are two excellent western swing bands - John England and his Western Swingers with Tommy Hannum on steel at Roberts from 6-10pm and The Time Jumpers with Paul Franklin on steel from 9-11:30. These are regular gigs. How great is that? There is a lot of country music on Broadway most nights of the week - you just need to ferret out what's happening and pick and choose.

Merle Haggard was at the Ryman Wednesday. Earl Scruggs and Friends were there Thursday, and that's happening periodically this summer. There's lots more happening there if one just looks.

I saw Smiley Roberts playing with Dennis Payne and an excellent band on Wednesday and Friday evenings out in Hendersonville. Pure honkytonk country, as good as anything I've seen in years. There weren't near enough people there - the joints should be packed. If you're in Nashville, you shouldn't miss these folks - they're great. Go seek 'em out.

There was an R&B band at Douglas Corner Cafe featuring of Reese Wynans (SRV and Joe Ely) on keys, John Cowan (New Grass Revival), and others similarly smoking on Friday. There were a bunch of shows that I just couldn't schedule with other things I had going on. But I could have spent pretty much every afternoon and evening out at clubs listening to something worthwhile. Even if the GOO doesn't suit you, the Midnight Jamboree at the ET Record Store is cool. There's more stuff around there again too.

Things are more distributed now. There's not just one tourist spot where one can go and get everything served up on a silver platter. One wouldn't go far wrong just club-hopping along Broadway most nights, but there's lots more if you look.

I guess we can have another "things ain't the same as they used to be" bitchfest. But I think it would be much more productive if we had threads (maybe even a few sticky threads) which mapped out what steel-oriented shows one can see, by location. Right now, posting in Events is pretty hit-or-miss, and not all the interesting stuff gets good coverage in advertising and entertainment sections of newspapers. This forum could help this significantly, but it would require people "in the know" to post info. To get them to do this, it would need to be made easy, one-stop shopping - threads dedicated to live music schedules, and not necessarily just where we individually are playing.

Whaddaya think - is it worth trying to do something like this?

Brett Day · Post by **Brett Day** » 7 Jul 2008 10:24 am

I love Nashville because it's a wonderful city, and a lot of my friends are there. My friend Michelle Poe played a lot of the bars and clubs on Broadway. In fact, the last time I was in Nashville, I was walkin' down Broadway and I saw a steel guitar in a window of one of the bars there. I couldn't tell who was playin', cause I saw the back of the guy's head and his guitar looked like a Zumsteel.

Brett

Theresa Galbraith · Post by **Theresa Galbraith** » 7 Jul 2008 11:48 am

Every Bar has music mostly Country on Broadway. 4 shifts, Bar hop on both sides of Broadway. It's Country!

Most Bars have Steel!

I live here and know how it is!

chas smith R.I.P. · Post by **chas smith R.I.P.** » 7 Jul 2008 12:20 pm

I'm involved in similar conversations about music other than country and the music business, in general. My take on it is simply, we can bitch about how it used to be better (and I miss it) or we can get on board, cause it ain't going back.

I was at a funeral, back in Feb, and got reunited with a bunch of friends from the motion-controlled camera days. The consensus was that the film business that we knew doesn't exist anymore. It's not just music.

Charles Davidson · Post by **Charles Davidson** » 7 Jul 2008 12:54 pm

You guys that keep talking about the great pickers on broadway in NV,YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.I used to play there a bit awhile back,Tooties a lot,the highlight of my trips there would be catching Mike Sweeney at Roberts,When I came off the road,can't afford to go to NV,it's a seven hundred mile round trip.You seem to forgot there are millions of people like myself that can't make it there to see and hear all this great music,Some of you talk about the few ledgends that still play the opry,BUT not on the TV portion,We are only able to see the TV broadcast,which is mostly [EXCEPT for a few rare times]nothing but a rock and roll show,.Watch GAC or CMT or FM radio,nothing but the same *&^%.Only the locals or tourist get to see or hear what goes on down on broadway.DYKBC.

Cal Sharp · Post by **Cal Sharp** » 8 Jul 2008 9:39 am

As noted above, you can still see great players on Broadway and various places around town. But, to me, the atmosphere's changed, and it really is different than it used to be.

I've been working Broadway on and off since the 70's; my most recent incidence of employment was at Robert's last Saturday, and I've noticed at least three major areas of change over the years.

Parking: There used to be a lot more parking available, which encouraged more locals (fans and musicians) to come down. These days it seems a lot of people are shuttled in from hotels.

Corporate encroachment: A convention center and an entertainment center have been built in the neighborhood, which brings in more business people who don't really care about the music.

The music itself: Used to be, you could hear tunes like "Billie's Bounce" and "C-Jam Blues", but now the music is geared more towards generating tips from country fans who don't know who Charlie Parker - or even Buddy Emmons - are.

It may be cleaner and safer down around Lower Broad than it used to be, but it just ain't as much fun.

If you'd been there Saturday you could have heard not only me, but also the incomparable Mike Sweeney next door at The Stage.

Joey Ace · Post by **Joey Ace** » 9 Jul 2008 7:40 am

Are there any cities in 2008 that are like they were in
1968, or 78, or 88, ....... ?

Theresa Galbraith · Post by **Theresa Galbraith** » 9 Jul 2008 9:57 am

No!

It is different downtown Nashville, it's grown actually. If you park across from the Convention Center in the Garage it's only $4.00 all the time. Alot of the time you can find a place to park on the street. Yes, it's alot safer too!

Alot of good musicians playing music they love!

Johan Jansen · Post by **Johan Jansen** » 9 Jul 2008 10:28 am

It's a pitty that musicians are judged by using new licks, instead of making nice music...

That is pretty well gone now. Of course in the era that I am talking about super pickers Buddy Emmons, Jimmy Crawford, Curly Chaulker etc. was inventing all the new licks. I don't mean to knock studio musicians today, but I don't hear new licks now that I heard back then. I don't hear the new twist on words as far as writing songs go, that I heard back then. I don't even know how to pitch a song anymore I guess.

Doyle Weigold · Post by **Doyle Weigold** » 9 Jul 2008 4:15 pm

Johan Jansen, I hope you are not assuming that what you hear on todays recordings and downtown Nashville today is even close to the three steel players I mentioned and what they played. In the era I mentioned competion for studio time and work with the main stream artist was heavy. I will admit that I am not that familiar with that part of it now, and steelguitar is not used as heavy now as it was back then, but I think that a chosen few is all you hear on the hits currently. I think the competetion back then is what made music interesting. For what it's worth, as far as I am concerned Buddy Emmons is the "Chet Atkins" of the Steel Guitar, Jimmy Crawford and Curly Chaulker wasn't far behind. IMO they invented new licks and played nice music at the same time. Doyle

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 9 Jul 2008 5:07 pm

I hope you are not assuming that what you hear on todays recordings and downtown Nashville today is even close to the three steel players I mentioned and what they played.

I think you're treading on very thin ice here. It's one thing to argue that the city has changed - of course it has. But to diss the great current players as being somehow not creative, original, or competitive with anybody is simply not accurate, IMHO. Recordings are the way they are because producers want them that way, not out of any inability on the part of the session players. Even back in a day, I don't think major chops were the main key to most session work. Just because you don't hear blow-me-down chops on records doesn't mean they don't have them - then or now.

I think Paul Franklin holds his own with anybody - do I really even need to state that? That's who you see when you go see the Time Jumpers at the Station Inn right now. Andy Reiss is on lead guitar with them. He is a legitimately fine player in many styles, including jazz. I listen to Barney Kessel, Wes Montgomery, Hank Garland, and others in that vein all the time - he's in that league. If you don't believe me, go see them and then tell us all about it. I think you will be surprised.

There are lots of other fine pickers playing in Nashville right now - I mean really good players. John Hughey was playing on Broadway and with the Time Jumpers until his untimely death several months ago. There are lots more, I won't bore you with a laundry list. Just go there and you will see.

I will admit that I am not that familiar with that part of it now, ...

Yup, that seems clear. Seriously, I would suspend disbelief until you have a chance to check it out. Maybe it's not as loose and fun as it used to be 20-40 years ago, as Cal says. But there's no lack of fine music.

My opinions, of course.

Doyle Weigold · Post by **Doyle Weigold** » 10 Jul 2008 3:58 am

Dave, first of all I don't have a thing against Paul Franklin or his playing. I will agree that all we hear today is what the producer wants us to hear, which is a lot less steel than we used to hear. IMO, we've went from steel intro., half the middle, and sometimes ending, to bareley hearing the steel. I certanly don't think I have to defend Buddy Emmons, which is the only one left from the three I mentioned. Doyle

Joe Casey · Post by **Joe Casey** » 10 Jul 2008 6:25 am

I have to agree with Dave...Also with Cal..It ain't as much fun as years back but thats because we were in the mix and having fun...I have to catch myself sometimes for putting down the music people are supporting now a days..We had our day our music and now they have theirs..Why not ? we got to have our turn in barrell...Certainly what we did and can still do is not supported enough to make a mini comeback...I take solace in the fact when I look for traditional Country and any other variety I can find it,its around and still kicking..Even with todays new artist I find some really great stuff when I really take the time to listen...When I go to Nashville I still get to sit in with friends who still are working and smiley always cleans out a corner for me to bunk in...As Theresa said there is still a lot going on (even if the pay is the same as 20 years ago)But the pickers got to eat and certainly have to pick....Nashvilles truly isn't the same but neither am I as are most of us..I have wavy hair (waved goodbye) and I'm 30 pounds heavier...I may still sound the same and pick the same But I'll never be like I was again in them "good ole days"...Thank God because I couldn't survive them good old days now..But Nashville is more than surviving and will be here when a lot of us are gone..Go figure huh?

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 10 Jul 2008 7:18 am

I hope you are not assuming that what you hear on todays recordings and downtown Nashville today is even close to the three steel players I mentioned and what they played.

... first of all I don't have a thing against Paul Franklin or his playing.

I see inconsistency in those statements. You directly said that the live players in Nashville today aren't "even close" to the players you mentioned. Like I said, Paul and a bunch of other really fine players ply their craft live in Nashville these days. They have had the benefit of these earlier players, but that doesn't take away from their tremendous ability. Many of them have built on those foundations, and the proof is in the listening - I strongly recommend doing that live where they have a chance to flex their creative muscles.

I certanly don't think I have to defend Buddy Emmons, which is the only one left from the three I mentioned.

It's hard to picture how you could extract even the remotest criticism of Buddy, Jimmy, or Curly from anything I said. You don't need to defend anybody, because nobody criticized them in any way, shape, or form. I think most, if not all, of us revere them as much as you do. The only negative comparison I saw came from you.

To me, this type of misunderstanding is the problem with comparison statements like this. There's no point in comparing different eras of players or music because they each have different foundations. It's one thing to say "I prefer this style or era", but quite another thing to make blanket statements about who or what is "better". There is no real objective basis to judge, and it just creates animosity for no purpose.

All my opinions, as usual.

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Nashville ain't Nashville anymore

Nashville ain't Nashville anymore

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