Screws Added To Changer

Brian Henry · Post by **Brian Henry** » 21 Jun 2008 12:16 pm

This link should be added to this thread:

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... 0&start=50

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Moderator note: This topic contains posts that were split from a topic about the Tommy Young mod.

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 21 Jun 2008 1:40 pm

No, I don't think so. That was another thread.

James Sission · Post by **James Sission** » 23 Jun 2008 7:00 pm

Danny, I bought the guitar from the person Tommy traded it to for a Zum. Then those 2 went back and forth over the Zum being defective. I dont know who got the wennie on that deal, but I talked to both on the phone, it was not pretty. I talked to that guyupon being notified of the screws in the changer. He admitted right away that he knew they were there and didnt feel it was a "HUGE" issue, so he didnt tell me about them. I think he should have, but he didnt. Lesson learned. So I contacted Tommy and he told me he did this. He thinks this is accpetable work, as do others on this forum, dealers and friends of Tommy's. Now let's all be clear on this if we may. I am not trying to be nasty, but let's all read VERY carefully here.

I CONTACTED TOMMY ONLY, ONLY, ONLY TO INQUIRE ABOUT THE WORK. DIDNT ASK HIM TO PAY ME, DIDNT ASK HIM TO BUY THE GUITAR, DIDNT ASK HIM FOR ANYTHING. NOTHING. I NEVER ASKED FOR A THING FROM TOMMY. READ THIS CAREFULLY......HE OFFERED TO BUY THIS GUITAR BACK...READ THIS CAREFULLY....HE OFFERED TO BUY IT BACK....HE EXTENDED AN OFFER TO BUY THIS GUITAR BACK....I PASSED ON HIS FIRST OFFER AND ACCPETED THE SECOND OFFER, WHICH HE DID NOT HONOR.

Guys, I didnt even show the pictures where he ran these screws All the way throught the cabnet OK, so if there is call for blood, come squeeze it out the seat of my trousers. I got the short end of this stick, and now I am stuck with a guitar I dont want and cant sell. Oh well, I got beat on this deal and I am sure I will again. Would I do this to someone? Hell no, especially not for a little under 3 grande. I will use the cabnet to burn in the fireplace this winter and hopefully sell the rest on ebay...But The guitar will die a dignified death........James

James Sission · Post by **James Sission** » 23 Jun 2008 7:17 pm

I am going to post this AGAIN. I didnt ask Tommy for anything. He offered, then he didnt follow through. You be the judge of that. If he wants this guitar, he can have it under his terms as I said before. I already got banged...I dont know how else to tell everyone. I was just warning you. Look at Mikes post from Mullen Guitars. He recognized the work work right away. I wont quote as a matter of respect, but he knew right away who did this when he saw the pics. Do what you want with your guitar...Just PLEASE, dont sell it to me with all that putty and calk all over ths inside.....James

A. J. Schobert · Post by **A. J. Schobert** » 23 Jun 2008 7:22 pm

James I feel for ya! Just save your money and get a new one.

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 23 Jun 2008 7:31 pm

James, are you talking about the same guitar that started this topic? I'm confused.

Danny Bates · Post by **Danny Bates** » 23 Jun 2008 7:39 pm

James, I had no idea the screws went all the way through the cabinet. That is way worse than what I thought was just poorly applied unsightly screws. I'm deleting my previous post. Sorry

Tommy Young · Post by **Tommy Young** » 23 Jun 2008 8:32 pm

BOB I would like to make my case here. NO other brand of guitar, that i have worked on. NONE has had to have any extra screws anywhere on them.

Except when adding knee levers and etc, where you must use them to install the part.

Some just get on your forum and do all they can to discredit me, my work and discredit all of the people that have had me work on their guitars telling these customers that they don't know anything about tone, nor that they don't know when their on personal guitars was improved. AS many of these guy's have had me MAX-TONE as many as 4 guitars for them because they LOVE the difference it made in their guitars.

(quote)

No one is chanting for blood.

No one wishes T.Y. any harm at all. Not even James Sission.

If this be the case why do they try to DISTROY MY WORK my only way of making an honest living, I have never max-toned any of their guitars nor worked for them in any way, yet they try to discredit me, my work and the people that have had me work on their guitars from the first thread until now, its the same few most of the time. doing the same things over and over to everyone that comes on the forum and tells the difference it made in their guitar if you guy's don't want a MAX-TONE guitar then please don't buy one. plus they have been sending e-mails to people to show them the picture when they asked me about a guitar that I had for sale. Anything they can trying to draw more blood as was stated I certainly HOPE and PRAY that they are HAPPY while doing this ""hope it satisfies their thirst for BLOOD"",

But they have asked me many times over what i do and get all upset because i refuse to tell everybody on this forum the secrets to my work, which are very simple in nature to do, especially if you know all the secrets to its equation.

(next)
YES i do understand about MR. SISSION and that he WAS NOT informed that the guitar he bought had been worked on, And""for more than one reason""""not just my tone modification either it had other problems, that was why it had screws in it, but then again AM I held responsible for doing what a customer asked me to do, Or asked me to just fix all that they put on a list of problems they were having as some of them has.

(((This thread has been hi-jacked as all the others has.)))

ps:: if you are fully Happy with your guitars TONE then do like others just PASS ME BY is that too much to ask, why cut people down start crap when you like what you have, others are not happy with their TONE and they want something better and thats what i try my best to do thanks.

TOMMY YOUNG
MAX-TONE MODIFICATIONS

I

James Sission · Post by **James Sission** » 24 Jun 2008 3:09 am

b0b, No sir, I am NOT talking about the Zum pictured here, I am talking about the one that the topic drifted to before I posted. The one tbhenry linked this to. I am sorry if you feel I am wrong to post again, but it appeared the topic was appropiate to discuss this guys work. This is an example of his work and I feel people should see it. I dont think its fair to allow only people who are happy with a company to make posts and not people who have poor experiences. I have been polite and not resorted to any name calling. I have just posted my opinon of this mans craftmanship and his business practices, all of which are documented in the thread tbhenry likned this to. It appeared after several posts you were ok with this, if your not, then again, I am sorry if I posted in a less than appropiate manner. Tommy,I find it hard to beleive that a customer asked you to run two screws through that guitar, thats not your first 2 stories to me, but ok. I can tell you that I run 2 businesses on the side and I would not let something leave my shop that I felt I needed to defend. I would have sent them on to someone else before I did something I wouldnt do on my guitar. Again, you seem to think that is ok and according to Mullen, that's not the first piece of your work they have seen....James

Billy Carr · Post by **Billy Carr** » 24 Jun 2008 4:23 am

I thought all of this was over with. Since it's not, why don't some of the players who've had TY mod there guitars chime in on this and give a positive and different side to the mods. If I had seen anything TY butchered or messed up then I'd say so but I hadn't. I hadn't seen any difference in the before or after effect other than a 75% to 100% improvement in tone/sustain. I play many different brand guitars at different times. Once I put my set up on them and make a few readjustments for fine tuning, mainly, then I've been able to get my tone and feel out of each one except one, which I won't name the brand. No that ones brand has not been mentioned in this topic, so far. For me personally, on some of these guitars, the mod has been an enhancement on each one it's been on that I've played. In closing, guitar builders are building some fine guitars that are great without anything added. The guitars I'm referring to from my own experience are Carter, Magnum, Rains, Fessenden, MSA, Emmons, Derby, Show-Pro, GFI, Franklin, Rittenberry, Mullen, Star & Performance.

P Gleespen · Post by **P Gleespen** » 24 Jun 2008 4:40 am

Curt Langston wrote: At least now one can see what this "mod" can involve.

Players can make an informed decision whether to send their guitar out to be "modded" or not.

I was under the impression that the screws in the changer had nothing to do with Tommy's mod.

That is indeed some questionable work shown in those pictures, but I don't think it's fair to represent them as "the mod".

It would be nice if we could hear from some people who are happy with Tommy's work to balance things out. It's always the pissed off guys with an axe to grind that make the most noise.

Curt Langston · Post by **Curt Langston** » 24 Jun 2008 5:03 am

If this be the case why do they try to DISTROY MY WORK my only way of making an honest living, I have never max-toned any of their guitars nor worked for them in any way, yet they try to discredit me, my work and the people that have had me work on their guitars from the first thread until now, its the same few most of the time. doing the same things over and over to everyone that comes on the forum and tells the difference it made in their guitar if you guy's don't want a MAX-TONE guitar then please don't buy one. plus they have been sending e-mails to people to show them the picture when they asked me about a guitar that I had for sale. Anything they can trying to draw more blood as was stated I certainly HOPE and PRAY that they are HAPPY while doing this ""hope it satisfies their thirst for BLOOD"",

Whoa, hold up here...............
Is this what you would consider an honest living?

Nobody wants to draw any blood.....

This whole "mod" thing has been a mystery for quite some time, and a lot of folks have been wanting to know what sort of stuff it is that you do to these guitars. I realize that this is just one example of your work, and that there are other things you do as well.

Do you not think that people would be upset to see this sort of workmanship?

Can you blame anyone for the controversy?

Good Lord man, at least you could have used stainless steel allen head screws, with nice lock washers and nuts on the underside.

How can anyone get a patent on this sort of stuff?

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 24 Jun 2008 6:40 am

Withdrawn

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 24 Jun 2008 7:54 am

I split these posts from a topic about Tommy Young's mod. It seemed like a better solution than closing it because of "hijacking".

Tommy Young says that the two screws pictured are not a part of his standard mod. He says that they were added at the request of the customer.

People who have contracted for the TY mod have not reported the presence of the two changer screws. They invariably say that there is no visible difference to the guitar.

Lynette Richards · Post by **Lynette Richards** » 24 Jun 2008 8:14 am

All I can say is people are mean. Can't we all get along.

It is pretty simple. If you like the mod have it done, if not, then don't. All I ask is, if the guitar is modded, then you should have enough respect to tell a potential buyer so this does not happen. Tommy's work or not, who knows besides him. I have seen similar guitars, but the ones I saw where not quite like this. They were better. I can only assume that if it was done by Tommy, it was very early on in his business and now has gotten it much more professional. I do know this mod adds some extra screws (visible) this is the reason it is not done at the factory, I feel visible screws are not the level that we are building, that is why you will not find them on the Mullen.

I think this should be pointed more at the seller of this guitar for not disclosing these screws or showing pictures, rather than at Tommy. I can't tell you for sure if this is Tommy's work. Who ever did it, stay away from future Mullen guitars Please!!!

Also I have comunicated to get this changer in question fixed, so please lets do it, so we do not go through this with the next buyer.

A. J. Schobert · Post by **A. J. Schobert** » 24 Jun 2008 8:15 am

It may not be part of the mod thing, I never asked that, I am just looking at the screws going through the changer! Carftmanship?

Surely there is a better way to fix the problem.

Lynette Richards · Post by **Lynette Richards** » 24 Jun 2008 8:18 am

I am confused, Did Tommy do it or not?

I know there are screws added there in the changer in Tommy's mod, but the others I have seen don't look like this. At the customers request or not this is some hacked up work to a nice guitar.

Curt Langston · Post by **Curt Langston** » 24 Jun 2008 8:23 am

So James, I really don't give a d@mn about your guitar anymore, whether you sell it or burn it.
You lost the high road by raising your issue again, and the more you insist, the less likely you are to get sympathy. Nothing has been added here, just more opportunities for guys who didn't get to throw rocks the first time around.

Sweet Mother of God

Charlie, it is not about throwing rocks around.

It is about information.

Information that has previously been kept "secret".

So James, I really don't give a d@mn about your guitar anymore,

Well, you sure would care if it was your guitar.

You would want folks to know of the sort of craftmanship that is being done.

AS A COMMON COURTESY TO FELLOW FORUMITES!!

Fix it, get rid of it. Don't like the screw? Take it out!

I normally like the economy of Hoffnar's posts and should follow suit, but this is beyond disturbing. It seems more of an attempt to torpedo Tommy's livelyhood and is reduced to personal attacks.

No. That will not work.

BTW, it is two screws, and if you did remove them, you would have to fill the holes with something.

What would you use, more putty?

It seems more of an attempt to torpedo Tommy's livelyhood and is reduced to personal attacks

No way.......

Tommys livelihood should not include ruining someone elses guitar.

Come on man, think about it.

Perhaps if Tommy were interested in saving his "mod" business, then maybe he could shed some light on just what it is he does to a guitar that qualifies it as a "mod".

People have had gut feelings about this "mod" thing since it began.

And gut feelings should not be dismissed.

Think about it..................

Charlie McDonald · Post by **Charlie McDonald** » 24 Jun 2008 8:42 am

I'm done here, leave me out of it.

Brint Hannay · Post by **Brint Hannay** » 24 Jun 2008 8:47 am

b0b makes the observation that these screws in the changer seem not to be part of Tommy's "tone mod".

Mike raised the question of Did Tommy put in the screws?

With regard to these two points, this was Tommy's very first post in the first thread where the matter of the screws was raised:

(emphasis added)

James sorry that you bought this particular guitar, but this isn't part of my tone modification it was to prevent this changer from rising in the back and letting the pedals go out of tune, please don't misrepresent what was done for someone else and they didn't tell you why it was done, then you tell all that it is my """"""MAX-TONE MODIFICATION""""which it is not
but on """SOME"""" of the older MULLEN guitars they didn't put anything to hold the back of the changer down at all so this or something can be done after it gets older with age to keep the pedals in tune as aluminum doesn't return the same each time, thats one of the reasons they changed to the royal precision changer as they learned they fixed their problems sorry you don't understand these things the screws were taper cut and so was the hole that I put them into, I hope this gives you a better understanding of what was done and for what reason, ((((((((without telling something that is wrong and that i did this to """"YOUR""""" guitar which it wasn't when this was done)))))) this was done with permission from the owner at the time it was done my friend. if any blame is to be given it should be to the original builder, because he didn't foresee this when he first built the guitar 20 something years ago, twenty years ago this guitar wasn't having this problem, but over years and years of fatigue stress and strain has a way of weakening on aluminum and other related parts, sorry that you and others don't or can't see the forest for the trees getting in your way as those screws didn't bother the original owner, it really stopped the problem i hope the new aluminum does as well for you now

TOMMY YOUNG
MAX-TONE MODIFICATIONS

PS;; AFTER SEEING THIS BY SEVERAL OWNERS THEY HAVE HAD ME TO FIX THEIR OLDER MODEL GUITARS SO THAT THEY COULD STOP THE PEDAL DETUNING AND LOW SUSTAIN PROBLEMS THEY WERE EXPERIENCING WITH THEIR OLDER MODEL GUITARS. SORRY YOU DIDN'T LIKE SEEING THOSE SCREWS DOWN ON THE CHANGER AT THE BACK OF IT TO HELP STABILIZE THE TOTAL ASSEMBLY

EDIT: I posted this quote only to clarify the record on points that I thought had become unclear because of distance from the original posts. I intend no comment one way or the other about the merits of any statements quoted.

Lynette Richards · Post by **Lynette Richards** » 24 Jun 2008 9:04 am

if any blame is to be given it should be to the original builder, because he didn't foresee this when he first built the guitar 20 something years ago, twenty years ago this guitar wasn't having this problem, but over years and years of fatigue stress and strain has a way of weakening on aluminum and other related parts,

Blame this:

On us.... Yeah that must of been the day I brought my 6 year old son to work.

Hilarious

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 24 Jun 2008 9:17 am

Man, I hope that pictures of my former 1996 Sierra Session never show up here. You guys are so upset over a magnified picture of two little screws. That's nothing compared to the "Bobby Lee MOD".

Fred Shannon · Post by **Fred Shannon** » 24 Jun 2008 9:51 am

Edited to delete.

I don't want to hijack this thread so I'll start one on a subject that was brought up in this one that interests me very much. See Changer Stability under Pedal Steel.

phred

Bo Legg · Post by **Bo Legg** » 24 Jun 2008 10:38 am

As usual much to do over a bad screw. Nothing personal here and I'm not taking sides, but I would rather give a person the benefit of the doubt rather than crucify him and take away his livelihood based on one complaint.

Curt Langston · Post by **Curt Langston** » 24 Jun 2008 11:51 am

That's nothing compared to the "Bobby Lee MOD".

At least you are not trying to make a living "modding" perfectly fine guitars!

You guys are so upset over a magnified picture of two little screws.

In all seriousness though, if those two screws end up causing a split at the end of that guitar, James will not be able to give the guitar away!

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