It Sure Ain't COUNTRY Anymore

Alvin Blaine · Post by **Alvin Blaine** » 6 Jun 2008 4:57 pm

Chris LeDrew wrote: The founding fathers of country music would be just as disgusted with today's country music scene

I don't believe that ONE bit.
What's going on in country music today has gone on with since day ONE, nothing has changed.

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 6 Jun 2008 5:02 pm

I believe the founding fathers of Country would give a tip of their hat to at least one gentleman on the list: Brad Paisley, and his fine steel player, Randall Currie.

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 6 Jun 2008 6:36 pm

Well, many of them cannot speak anymore. George Jones, however, is still alive. And he's disgusted. Same with Merle. Same with Johnny while he was still here. They've all expressed their disgust in concert and in the press many times over. I don't think it's a stretch to see where they're coming from. The writing alone is so much inferior to what was being written for the masses in the 50's and 60's. When Hank Sr. was rebelling, he was doing it with GREAT tunes. I'm sure there's just as good being written these days, but it won't see the radio. It's too honest.

I agree that Brad Paisley is a great guitarist and vocalist. His writing style is not my cup of tea because he uses a lot of hokey lines. But his musicianship cannot be denied.

While it's true that all commercial country isn't bad these days, the majority of it is pretty cheesy. I'm talking about the stuff that gets played. For instance, I heard a Toby Keith song yesterday that went, "She's a hottie, she's got a smokin' body". That's a far cry from, "Straight ahead, that's the bed, where we lay and loved together" or "A warden led a prisoner down the hallway to his doom." Most of this new country is devoid of any soul.

Alvin Blaine · Post by **Alvin Blaine** » 6 Jun 2008 6:56 pm

Chris LeDrew wrote:Well, many of them cannot speak anymore. George Jones, however, is still alive. And he's disgusted. Same with Merle. Same with Johnny while he was still here. They've all expressed their disgust in concert and in the press many times over. I don't think it's a stretch to see where they're coming from. The writing alone is so much inferior to what was being written for the masses in the 50's and 60's. When Hank Sr. was rebelling, he was doing it with GREAT tunes. I'm sure there's just as good being written these days, but it won't see the radio. It's too honest.

I agree that Brad Paisley is a great guitarist and vocalist. His writing style is not my cup of tea because he uses a lot of hokey lines. But his musicianship cannot be denied.

While it's true that all commercial country isn't bad these days, the majority of it is pretty cheesy. I'm talking about the stuff that gets played. For instance, I heard a Toby Keith song yesterday that went, "She's a hottie, she's got a smokin' body". That's a far cry from, "Straight ahead, that's the bed, where we lay and loved together" or "A warden led a prisoner down the hallway to his doom." Most of this new country is devoid of any soul.

Sorry that must have been my mistake, I wasn't think of George Jones, Merle Haggard, and Johnny Cash as the "Founding Fathers".

For some reason, in my mind, I was thinkin that the "Founding Fathers" of recorded country music were folks like Eck Robertson, Jimmie Rodgers, Uncle Dave Macon, The Carter Family, Vernon Dalhart, Fiddlin' John Carson, Gid Taner & the Skillet Lickers.

I just assumed that recorded county music started almost 90 years ago instead of just 40 some years ago... Silly me

Charles Davidson · Post by **Charles Davidson** » 6 Jun 2008 7:20 pm

[IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT,DON'T LISTEN]If there was a CHOICE,I would'nt gripe one bit,I'm sure there may be a FEW[VERY FEW] stations across the country that may have a REAL classic country format,But for the people[and there are plenty of them left]like myself,old grey headed geezers[The ones Mr. Fisher dont like to to see on the opry]Would just like to have a choice.You won't hear it on FM radio,unless you shell out the bucks for satalite radio,You absolutely want see it on TV,if you don't get RFD.The so-called country music award shows[what a joke]are nothing but 98 percent Hollyweird rock and roll extravaganzas and maybe 2 percent country,The ones that think this *&%^ that's being called country today is the REAL thing,that's fine,buy it,support it,listen to it,you have EVERY RIGHT to do so,Just as same as myself and others have a right to bitch about it,The difference is we DON'T have much of a choice.You can click on your radio or TV and hear or see what you like,The rest of us can't,IT'S NOT THERE.DYKBC.

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 6 Jun 2008 7:40 pm

I should have stressed that I meant the originators of commercial country music, the ones who enjoyed heavy radio play that the new country artists do today. Hit parade stuff, when widespread commercialism really kicked into high gear in the 50's. My point is that commercialism didn't always mean bad music. After all, that's what we're talking about here. In that sense, "founding fathers" is a bit off. I would consider Chuck Berry a "founding father" of rock and roll, but some may point back to Robert Johnson as a true founding father. But I can understand where you're coming from, Alvin. Sorry for the confusion.

John Steele (deceased) · Post by **John Steele (deceased)** » 6 Jun 2008 9:17 pm

First, it's really nice to see a fresh topic on the forum

secondly,

My point is that commercialism didn't always mean bad music.

Neighbour, are you serious ? I think I must have missed that directive. Maybe I forgot to set my phaser to "stunned".

-John

Jody Sanders · Post by **Jody Sanders** » 6 Jun 2008 9:59 pm

Seemingly, some folks did not get the point I was trying to make with my post on the "interview". Buck was trying to say the look meant more than the talent. Jody.

Edward Meisse · Post by **Edward Meisse** » 6 Jun 2008 11:17 pm

This is not only not a fresh topic here on the forum. But it seems not to be a fresh topic in any style of music. Once the suits get to managing it in a way that maximizes profit, the artistry goes out of it. Lots of good music is being made today by independent artists in all genres. You just have to make the effort to look for it.

Alvin Blaine · Post by **Alvin Blaine** » 6 Jun 2008 11:51 pm

Jody Sanders wrote:Seemingly, some folks did not get the point I was trying to make with my post on the "interview". Buck was trying to say the look meant more than the talent. Jody.

Your right I didn't get the point you were trying to make, sorry.

It's not really anything new in country music.
DeFord Bailey was one of the first big starts of the Grand Ole Opry, when it was just a radio show. From the late '20s through the '30s he was one of the most requested artist on the Grand Ole Opry.
Then when the Grand Ole Opry moved into a theater, and started doing shows in front of an audience, the Opry management started cutting back on DeFord's appearances.
By the 1940's the Opry wasn't letting him play anymore, claiming his music wasn't with the "right publisher", no matter what song publisher he used.

When you get down to it, the Grand Ole Opry just didn't care about his music. They just worried about what a predominantly white rural southern audience would think of some little black harmonica player up on stage.

Ever since country music moved in front of a bigger viewing audience, management has been more obsessed with "looks" than talent!

Jody Sanders · Post by **Jody Sanders** » 7 Jun 2008 12:12 am

Hi Alvin, you nailed it on your story about Deford Bailey. Jody.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 7 Jun 2008 12:32 am

When you get down to it, the Grand Ole Opry just didn't care about his music. They just worried about what a predominantly white rural southern audience would think of some little black harmonica player up on stage.

Ever since country music moved in front of a bigger viewing audience, management has been more obsessed with "looks" than talent!

I agree with you that this is nothing new, Alvin. You're right on about Deford Bailey, IMO. I guess I'll only argue that this is not "good", by my standards, and I cannot defend it.

There is and has always been a strong conflict between love of music for its own sake and the worship of popularity and money. But I still say that great music focuses on the former, and not the latter. People seem to have forgotten that if one focuses on the former, the latter can be an unintended consequence. I also think that they've forgotten the inverse - if one focuses only on popularity and money, it's easy to bleed the system dry. I don't want to paint with too broad a brush - there is still good music out there, even in the mainstream - but why should anybody care about music without artistic passion that only seeks to make money? Why should I care about them making money? I get pretty damned tired of hearing the lame excuse that "We're out to make money." Sure, who isn't? My response is, "What does that have to do with whether or not anybody should listen to your music?"

So - we need to go find and promote the "good stuff" out there, to our own tastes. I try, and I think lots of others on this board do the same. But there is quite a bit of frustration that the major distribution is tightly held in a pretty serious oligopoly which shuts out anything that doesn't fit a pretty tightly restricted demographic. I think that part - the lack of diversity in mainstream music - has indeed changed significantly, and for the worse.

Alvin Blaine · Post by **Alvin Blaine** » 7 Jun 2008 12:51 am

Dave Mudgett wrote:I guess I'll only argue that this is not "good", by my standards, and I cannot defend it.

I completely agree. It's just another sad "business" part of the music business.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 7 Jun 2008 2:55 am

One of my gripes is they are not calling the current "Nashville music" what it really is. The continue to call it "Country Music" and it's not what many would consider "Country Music".

Other music venues do have names for the type of music - e.g. there are many different types of Rock music, it's not all just "Rock" music anymore.

As a side note on what type of music is called what. I've worked several tours with George Hamilton IV and when he started, in 1955, with his first song and only Number 1 song "A Rose And A Baby Ruth" he was considered a "Rockabilly" and toured with Buddy Holly, Big Bopper, etc. And, he said anyone that had a southern drawl and played a guitar was considered a "Rockabilly" back then. Although, today, George is considered a Traditional Country music singer and is associated with his "Abilene", he includes Gordon Lightfoot and even a Dylan song in his live shows.

Bo Borland · Post by **Bo Borland** » 7 Jun 2008 5:32 am

While I would rather not hear the same top 20 tunes all day long on the radio, (i got Sirius and an IPOD).
I like to gig with my band and we play all this stuff that is not "traditional country" but I don't mind playing it at all. We cover everything from Jones to Strait to Big & Rich and Trace Atkins, David Alan Coe to Paisley, ZZTOP to Toby Keith.
It's not easy for an old style Ray Price or Hank Sr type steel player to play, it's progressive and makes you stretch.
There is room in this world for all types of music. If you don't like it, change the station.
I think back to when Ricky Skaggs, George Strait, Randy Travis, Marty Stuart and others hit the radio... the other bands that were on top were Alabama, Exile, Charlie Daniels, Hank JR, and others... Reba, Janie Fricke, Charley McClain, The Kendalls, Sylvia... were also on the charts along with Willie & Waylon.. times change, so does the music.

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 7 Jun 2008 6:23 am

There is room in this world for all types of music. If you don't like it, change the station.

While I agree that we should just move on - in most places I have been around the last 10 years, you can't just "change the station" - at least on broadcast TV and radio - and get a different result. That is one of the recurrent beefs - that the mainstream media has been overly concentrated into an oligopoly, and there are no alternatives.

If and when the FCC does something about this, I will stop complaining. I believe in allowing a free market to determine what should be played. If and when they change the rules to allow serious small-station competition to the large corporate media outlets, I think this situation will fix itself to a large degree.

Theresa Galbraith · Post by **Theresa Galbraith** » 7 Jun 2008 6:35 am

And the beat goes on!

Steinar Gregertsen · Post by **Steinar Gregertsen** » 7 Jun 2008 7:23 am

I never listen to the commercial radio stations over here, their whole attitude is too 'noisy' for me.

Whatever happened to buying CDs of the artists you enjoy and listen to those when you want a shot of your favorite music? Most of the music I listen to these days I've bought directly from the artist or on CD Baby,- there's a zillion great artists out there in any genre that you'll never hear on the radio.

Buy their music and support the artists/music you love!

Olli Haavisto · Post by **Olli Haavisto** » 7 Jun 2008 7:48 am

When I grew up the only way to hear your favorite music was to get the LPs so I`m used to that and I can assure you there is lots of stuff out there for everyone, you just have to look for it.For this to continue Steinars comment on supporting the artists and music you love is vital.

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 7 Jun 2008 8:12 am

I had to completely give up my songwriting so I'd have enough time to complain about how bad all the new songs are.

First, it's really nice to see a fresh topic on the forum

For Pete's sakes, write a frigging song, then - here's your first title idea:

"All of the New Songs Suck, Except This One"

You'd have at least a two dozen-seller right there, just from folks on the forum.

LJ Eiffert · Post by **LJ Eiffert** » 7 Jun 2008 10:05 am

How bout a song called, " show respect on the forum to the New Ones ". Seem alot of these New Members don't know the History of how The Steel Guitar regulates Country Music. Can you pros out there help the mix. I would reslate the tracks,but,to many know the answers better than me. I'm just an old new comer in this Music Industry of this new breed of Artist. Leo J.Eiffert,Jr. PS; " I'm A No Body " & I can't get out of this Circle that has a corner.

Chris LeDrew · Post by **Chris LeDrew** » 7 Jun 2008 2:45 pm

John S. and Alvin B., I hope that belittling people gives you a sense of power.

Leslie Ehrlich · Post by **Leslie Ehrlich** » 7 Jun 2008 3:14 pm

Charles Davidson wrote:If there was a CHOICE...

Sure you have a choice. All of the classic country music we grew up listening to on radio and on TV has been recorded. Build up a library of recordings and enjoy them. That's what I would do. I don't listen to the radio any more and I don't watch music videos on TV. I really don't care what happens in the mainstream music business any more.

John DeBoalt · Post by **John DeBoalt** » 7 Jun 2008 5:06 pm

Music today is written, and performed to fit the tastes of teenie boppers, and the 20 something women. Look at the audience in the GOO house when they put the camera on them. Now what did I do with that Jeenie Sealey CD ? John D.

Alvin Blaine · Post by **Alvin Blaine** » 7 Jun 2008 5:25 pm

Chris LeDrew wrote:John S. and Alvin B., I hope that belittling people gives you a sense of power.

I have absolutely zero interest in obtaining any sense of power and even less interest in ever belittling anyone on this forum or through my life's travels.

I'm not sure what I ever said to cause someone to feel that way. I truly and honestly apologize, for what ever it is, and plead for forgiveness.