Is MORE Better?

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 4 Apr 2008 11:43 am

In the years this Forum has been around, it seems the majority of subjects have been touched on more than once, and some topics many times.

I'm reasonably sure my next question has been brought up in the past, but I think it fits into this thread.

Does more "stuff," as in knee levers and pedals take away from individuality and make a player sound more, for lack of a better term, generic?

Think of a less mechanical instrument - electric guitar. Paul Franklin posted earlier on this thread, and a guy he has played with numerous times over the years is Mark Knopfler. I can tell it's Knopfler after hearing about 4 notes. And to keep it in the steel guitar family, I can tell when it's Jerry Douglas on dobro after about 4 or 5 notes.

Lloyd Green, on his brilliant solo in the Alan Jackson song "Remember When," sounds to me, very "Lloyd Greenish." Is this because he uses "less stuff" and manipulates the bar more than a player that has a ton of pedals and knee levers?

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 4 Apr 2008 12:11 pm

Basilh,

The Fender 1000 that I once owned was not "akin" to other 1000's that were strewn everywhere on earth. I removed the 9th neck, and replaced it with a wood that would receive a specially tooled leather front. It featured a beautiful hand tooled eagle in full color, on the top, and a smaller version of the same eagle facing the audience. Beautiful American Indian designs created a most interesting study in Americana. I hope to show a picture in this thread within a few days. The C6th neck became the 9th neck to allow for the addition of knee levers. I even experimented with a treble string at the 8th string position. It was a .017 tuned to mid-range "B". When I pulled a bar shiver, from the "B" note to "C" it became a sustaining 7th tone. It caught the attention of an owner of a fine Emmons guitar. His comments at the time were very encouraging. I needed to advance to the 10 string guitar, and that's where I am today. I do have some exclusive changes on my present steel, and it comes close to satisfying my musical ambitions.

Rick Schmidt · Post by **Rick Schmidt** » 4 Apr 2008 12:15 pm

Ideally I want to be able to play the same chord voicings and counterpoint on PSG that I do on piano and six string, so I think it's ok to keep searching for ways to do that. The standard D-10 w/8+4 never quite got it in that department for me, even though any tuning set-up has a lifetime of discovery to be sure.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 4 Apr 2008 12:44 pm

Mark E.,

On the contrary, generic is a friendly term when applied to some of the out of tune, and unmanageable trophies that I have observed turned "bellies" up. It is possible to determine a skillful player by hearing just a few notes. One of Faron Young's band members told me that back in the 90's, while on a break at The Home Club in Hinsdale, MA. It's not easy to forget such claims of pinpoint determinations. What other choices are there, but to take it and run with it.

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 4 Apr 2008 3:33 pm

...sounds to me, very "Lloyd Greenish." Is this because he uses "less stuff" and manipulates the bar more than a player that has a ton of pedals and knee levers?

Bingo! Now you're starting to get the picture...

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 4 Apr 2008 3:58 pm

David Hartley wrote:
MIKE P..? What is Veep?

Vice prez David. And while I've got your attention, let me say how much I am enjoying your You Tube videos.

Jim Cohen is NOT in charge of vice. It would not be acceptable.

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 4 Apr 2008 4:17 pm

I tried being in charge of Vice, once. It didn't work out so well.

In approximately 39 minutes someone like Doug Beaumier will come along and show you a photo of the experience...

Doug Beaumier · Post by **Doug Beaumier** » 4 Apr 2008 4:56 pm

Yes, Jim (the fox) guarding the henhouse!

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 5 Apr 2008 2:50 am

Is MORE Better? Most certainly not! That would apply to literally countless applications that involve getting, taking, or absorbing more than is needed in a given situation. This particular thread is an effort to hone one's thinking on the finer points of knee levers. Luckily, some writers here on the forum have indicated that they have changes that are not used. This isn't unusual, when considering that a player of a steel that is "loaded" may never press certain "changes", due to the restraints of certain melodies. It should be noted however, that most advanced players will not surrender a change even though it is rarely used. The reason is simply having the change in place if it is needed. P.F. had indicated that no additional knee levers have been installed on his preferred setup since the 70's. That was a surprise, and has taught me to be wary of assumptions. There are some possibilities though, that may be considered as changing changes. By turning the screws at the endplate, or rearranging rods, and by adding rods, the player could establish a prolific and clever utilization, of the many options; regardless of the number of knee levers. In actuality, this occurs with double raises or lowers or tying into two necks with the same mechanical movement. Extrapolating the options of a master technician such as Paul F., would reflect poor judgment on the part of any writer. I'm inclined to think that the link between knee levers and steel guitar proficiencies, awaits futher studies.

Al Collinsworth · Post by **Al Collinsworth** » 5 Apr 2008 5:07 am

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 5 Apr 2008 5:55 am

Al,

Many of the famous ladies issued quotable quotes from the 40's and 50's movie era. During the 40's war years, the decorated Flying Tigers crew members, posted their favorite stars on their fighter planes. A split second of distraction could spell differences in making it back to safety in numbers. Oh.. by the way, a dreaded distraction, can be a missed hot lick by way of knee lever changes, or highway "fender benders".

Al Collinsworth · Post by **Al Collinsworth** » 5 Apr 2008 6:05 am

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 5 Apr 2008 6:55 am

Al,

Thanks for the kind words expressed on a Saurday morning. Knee levers provide an endless amount of discussions. Hopefully, a few new ideas that have proved to be useful will be discussed in later postings.

Theresa Galbraith · Post by **Theresa Galbraith** » 5 Apr 2008 7:01 am

Thanks Bill,
I guess it's a matter of changes and it's a personal opinion for each player.

Have a great Saturday!

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 5 Apr 2008 7:18 am

Theresa,

I wholeheartedly agree..

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 6 Apr 2008 3:48 am

I checked out the 4 "main" KNEE LEVERS on a steelie's steel last night. He was booked to play here in Pittsfield, MA for a 7-11:00 P.M. "gig". The staging area was built in 1912, before pedal steel guitars were thought of. The steel player lives approximately 25 miles from where I live. He would easily fit into a Nashville setting. All is well, and I'll be paying him a visit north of Claverack, N.Y. on the 12th. He is one of the few advanced players in this immediate area.

Don Drummer · Post by **Don Drummer** » 7 Apr 2008 5:54 am

Bill, you meant plethora didn't you? Don.

Bill Hankey · Post by **Bill Hankey** » 7 Apr 2008 7:01 am

Don D.,

The destructive nature of excesses has never been reached in steel guitar exploration. Most of the eminent steel guitarists have pushed their steels to the limit, although I suspect a divergence into more advanced technology in relation to pedals and knee levers is imminent. I posed the question hoping for admissions that would surface, and direct attention to trials and errors, from those who attempted to expand their musical expressions. I must refrain from elaborating extensively, to avoid conflicting opinions.

The Steel Guitar Forum

Is MORE Better?

Re: Hi

glut of changes