Ideas for Getting More Younger Folks Out to Steel Shows

[Brint Hannay]

The younger generation's ( 18 to 28) thing is to stand up, clap, and sing-a-long, while exposing various body parts and listening to a band that dresses like street people playing at 140 decibels and using the F word and other profanities throughout the show. I think I will just hang in with the steel guitar shows as is. Jody.

yes.... standing, clapping, singing along...these are clearly unaccpetable expressions of a young person enjoying themselves...we must not have this at a steel guitar show! It is indeed shocking that our youth dont want to dress up for church and remain seated quietly with their hands folded in their lap and atend these wonderful events with us. I am actually surprised we have been able to keep them away for as long as we have.

Young (or old) people dancing, clapping, singing along is great--that's one way of reacting to being moved by music in particular ways. But I wouldn't want that to happen at a classical piano recital--obviously, not that it would! I love classical piano, by the way.

It seems to me that a "steel show" is, by definition, more like a classical piano recital than a youth-oriented concert. It's not specified in the very term "steel show" what KIND OF MUSIC will be played, but I think it's implicit that the idea behind a show so named is that one comes to LISTEN to the music, paying attention to the details and nuances.

Some young people go to classical concerts of their own volition--a minority, perhaps, but they're there. It may not be generally characteristic of youth in our times, but some few "get" classical music. They may well be some of the most committed members of the audience, given that they're going against the grain of their segment of the culture--which seems to augur well for the survival of classical music among a small but dedicated part of the human race.

If the same situation applies to steel guitar, as far as I'm concerned that's fine. I don't personally see a need for what I love myself to gain mass acceptance.

I am NOT arguing that "steel guitar", and thus "steel shows", should be kept within the narrow confines of a particular style of country music. As far as I'm concerned, anything goes--anything people interested in steel want to play and/or hear. But I agree with those who've said that, realistically, a focus on the steel guitar is almost certainly always going to be a somewhat esoteric thing, and that's not a bad thing. Mass acceptance seldom seems to do much for the integrity of art.

[Roger Rettig]

If my clouded 65 year-old memory isn't deceiving me, then I seem to recall that any recommendation made to me by anyone over twenty-five counted for nothing. It was, in fact, a clear signal that I should avoid it like the plague - simply on principal.

Whatever new incarnation awaits pedal-steel (IF there is to be one), you can rest assured that none of US will have anything to do with it. That generation will have to feel as though they discovered it for themselves.

[Jim Cohen]

Roger, I wish you'd stop spouting universal truths. It tends to close down discussion.

[Dave Mudgett]

It would be great to hear from some young players opinions here on the forum. Please we need YOU!

Uh - I think some of them have. At least, they're young to me - I'm in my 50s.

Freakin' CHASM is right, Jim - this is what I have been saying for some time. This is precisely why I have continuosly advocated doing different types of events for different audiences.

I'm sorry - we can't force everybody to hold hands and sing Kumbaya to the melody of "A Way to Survive".

BTW - I play for college-age students all the time. Don't believe the gossip about them all being filthy-mouthed and annoying. Some are and some aren't, but most who come to see my alt-country/Americana band are not. I probably have as much problem with alums my own age on big football weekends coming in on a bender and being very annoying. Hey Colm - I'm not talkin' about you.

...then I seem to recall that any recommendation made to me by anyone over twenty-five counted for nothing.

Roger I agree only up to a point. When I was under much younger, there were a helluva lot of older musicians that my friends and I paid a lot of attention to. I don't think that has really changed that much, believe it or not. The scene is more youth-oriented, but I see good younger players who are pretty serious these days.

[Joe Casey]

I believe ACCEPTANCE is the key word..A lot of posters on here are always putting down the new efforts,new ideas of the young and what is inevitable CHANGE..A lot of posters feel if they don't play traditional country they put down anyone young and new that comes along just wanting to play their own preferences. Accepting them might lead to them accepting invitations to the shows.And a good size growth for the Istrument. So many in their own words limit the Instrument to one genre.

[Mike Baldwin]

The one thing I don't see being mentioned is access to the instrument itself and the cost. We have all found out by experience that you can't just walk into a music store and buy one(I'm in California). Six string guitar manufactuters accomplished the task by mass production of fairly high quality and playable instruments but I don't think that can be done with a pedal steel guitar. If you make the instrument "available" they will play it.

[Ben Jones]

LOL!

you guys ask how to get more youngins at your steel shows and then say you dont want em there, never mind....heehee.

Lemme ask you all something. Back when you were "youngins" did you go to dances, concerts or other social events with music? were there pretty girls there? did you perchance ever enjoy the close proximity of said girls during a "slow dance"? did your parents approve of the way you were dressed? did they approve of the music? your vernacular?

Dont worry folks. there will be no "maush" pits at your steel shows I promise. Young people can and do behave in a respectable manner most of the time. Not every one of our shows have cussin, chicks getting groped in the mosh pit, and oral sex onstage (only the good ones ...that was a joke okay?)

Young people dress and talk a certain way....thats just the way it is (and Im guessing the way it always has been, but only you could tell me if thats really the case..i wouldnt know). So I guess...make up your minds do you want em at your steel shows or not? If not that is fine...escpecially since they have no desire to attend as it is now. If so, be prepared to get what you asked for...and be open minded enough to accept the differences that may arise between age groups.

again no offense to anyone is intended.

[Roger Rettig]

Dave wrote:

"Roger I agree only up to a point. When I was under much younger, there were a helluva lot of older musicians that my friends and I paid a lot of attention to."

I think that's the age-gap between you and I at work; there was an emphatic delineation point between old music and new music when I was a boy. This was 1955-56, and, try as I might to analyse the difference, all I can come up with is that, suddenly, pop-music was guitar-driven. I suggest that when you were a boy it already was, and it would have been more acceptable for you to look to, say, 30 or 40-year old musicians.

This is getting a bit off-track (my fault!), but Scotty Moore's biography makes enlightening reading. He talks at one point about what prejudice there was against him, Bill Black and DJ Fontana when they trespassed into the world of 'establishment' professional musicians when they did those New York City TV shows with Elvis in '56; four or five years later, that had changed.

I turned pro in '59, though, and I can remember it too!

This is a different thread, isn't it? Sorry......

[Jody Sanders]

Brint and Ben, You did not address the last part of the post. Exposing body parts , the band and the profane language. I dont think steel guitar shows are ready for that. Jody.

[Brint Hannay]

Brint and Ben, You did not address the last part of the post. Exposing body parts , the band and the profane language. I dont think steel guitar shows are ready for that. Jody.

Actually, Jody, I think I did:

It seems to me that a "steel show" is, by definition, more like a classical piano recital than a youth-oriented concert.

I haven't seen any of what you described at classical piano recitals!!!

[Dave Mudgett]

Jody - you didn't address me, but I also argued in my post that the vast majority of college students I play for in my alt-country/Americana band do not expose themselves or scream profanities, and that's in a club setting with alcohol and sometimes mob groupthink present. I see as many older people do that kind of stuff as college students.

In a non-alcohol situation, I think this is even much more unlikely. I teach college students every day - lots of 'em. Their dress, mannerisms, and language are sometimes quite different than those of people my age, but the vast majority understand "When in Rome...". I strenuously doubt that a younger steel player interested enough to come to any kind of steel guitar oriented show would embarass me in any way. I suppose if someone just hates backwards baseball caps, hoodie sweatshirts, and a different set of jargon, someone might have an issue. But to me, that's no big deal.

I think the bigger issue is that there's no real musical and cultural community of interest between "typical" groups of older steel enthusiasts and younger ones. So why try to force it? But I still think it's a good idea to promote the instrument to younger musicians and serious music enthusiasts.

Young people dress and talk a certain way....thats just the way it is (and Im guessing the way it always has been...

Yup, that's my experience, Ben. I'm not so sure that the differences we're hearing are just age, but are also different segments of American culture.

[Ben Jones]

Brint and Ben, You did not address the last part of the post. Exposing body parts , the band and the profane language. I dont think steel guitar shows are ready for that. Jody.

Hi Jody. I agree steel shows arent ready for that, nor are they the place for that, and I think, should any young folk attend your shows, they will be well aware of that and behave accordingly.

as for that behaviour as being commonplace to our concerts:
-exposed body parts. Not sure what you mean exactly but nudity onstage is the exception, not the norm and it almost always comes from acts that have that aspect as a well know part of their routine. Flashing boobies at the band was (unfortunately) more of a 60's and 70's thing. GG Allin is dead now....I dont know...what exposed body parts?
-profanity. Unless Im at a hip-hop concert (which are horrible btw, even for someone like myself who likes hip-hop... super distorted mic's, twenty people onstage and all to a DAT tape backing music....boring!) I dont hear a whole lot of profanity. When I do, its usually in a context that is typical of the way real people talk.
-the bands dress code? what? we wear shirts, pants....shoes....I dont get it at all. whats wrong with our clothes? YOUR clothes that we purchase at thrift stores are actually what we like the best

As Brint said...young folks coming to a steel show know there is not going to be a mosh pit...they know not to shout profanities..in short, they know how to behave in that environment and realize its not a 50 Cent concert or whatever where other behaviour might be appropriate. Crowds for alt-country shows are usually VERY tame...tamer than most of the honky tonks you guys play I am certain.

Its all meaningless anyway....young folks arent gonna go to steel shows as they exist now...and if you change the steel shows enough for them to actually want to attend without being a steel fanatic...you wont have anything resembling your steel shows anymore. I think the best you can hope for is to continue to attract new PLAYERS to these things...and forget about trying to draw in youngsters, country music fans, postal workers union 238, or any other sub group...these shows are for steel players...thats it. just my opinion.

again, let me say...the pedal steel guitar is doing just fine..there are a whole new set of players and bands using this wonderful instrument and a whole new crew of young people appreciating it...however you will not see them at "steel shows".

David wrote:
"Yup, that's my experience, Ben. I'm not so sure that the differences we're hearing are just age, but are also different segments of American culture."
-agreed.

Have a great day everyone!

[Joe Drivdahl]

You know, its kind of funny and a little scarey. Here in good old backward Montana, I consider myself a liberal, but compared to some of the folks on this forum, I'm a right-wing extremest! Someone once said , "There are no real Democrats in Montana. Just Liberal Republicans." Maybe thats true. Never thought of myself as a conservative, but here, I'm a conservative.

Weird

Joe

[Theresa Galbraith]

Hey,
Let everyone play!:)

[Jett Cornett]

I think that the lack of intrest in the young generation starts with getting the mid generation like the early thirtys to early fourtys lead guitar players involved. I am 31 years old and am considered young around my area. Mid aged players have the patience and will make the time to practice this very complex but beautiful instrument. Kids will take up steel when they can't see it regularly. Speedy West Jr. Ken Collins, Kevin Webb, and Byron are the only giging local players I can think of in my area. So 90 percent of country bands around here are preforming without a steel player. I am trying to add my name to the list, but it takes time. If everyone will take a 30's player under their wing then maybe in 10 years that can trikle down to 25's teaching 21's teaching 18's and so on. It can happen but the lack of players in their 40's and 30's is why we are at this point today. This can be reversed, but time maybe running out in the next ten to fifteen years if we don't start today!!!!!!!!!!!!P.S. I am sorry if I missed a giging player or two no disrespect intended I appriciate all of you.

[Jim Sliff]

Let nature take its course. This is too great an instrument to ever fade away – how it will be utilized in the future isn’t something any of us can change or even attempt to tinker with.

Except it already IS fading away...as many have said repeatedly, you hear less steel in country now than ever, as "country" leans toward rock.

Which means you either go with the flow...and that means change...or watch makers slowly (or quickly) go out of business and players die off, with few young ones to take their place.

To those who want purity of the instrument like Joe, that apparently doesn't matter. But this crap about exposed body parts, groping and mosh pits just has me rolling on the floor laughing like mad. You guys are, I swear, out of your minds. You apparently watched MTV once in 2000 and decided the world was coming to an end.

People are afraid there will be a mosh pit at a steel show?

Exposing body parts , the band and the profane language. I dont think steel guitar shows are ready for that.

Where do these insane assumptions come from that young people at a steel show means the whole thing will degrade into a punk club-meets-strip club atmosphere? What planet ARE you guys from? Joe's story about the show in Canada that he "heard" about sounds exactly like the sort of BS bragging most 20 year olds spout off...that's pure fantasy. Pull stunts like that at a rock/punk/metal club and a bouncer would have you skipping across the pavement so fast it'd make your head spin.

Oh, please - quit living in a fantasy world. The "chasm" is turning into a limitless void.

I'm 55. I come from a rock background, but also spent 15 years playing bluegrass.

I also spent several years at the clubs in Hollywood playing roadie/guitar tech for my oldest son's band(s) - yes, there were mosh pits. Yes, there was some profanity. No, there was no nudity and no more exposed body parts than you'd see on a summer day in the park (and less than you'd see at the beach).

But not ALL the bands cursed (in fact, few did) and not all encouraged mosh pits. A few punk bands, yes; metal bands, usually not; prog rock bands, never.

You guys are expecting things when you've never been to clubs young people go to - and those same players on stage go to product demos (which would be "shows", folks) at local Guitar Center Stores to hear some star demonstrating equipment...and they...gasp...listen. Quietly. They ask intelligent questions...and most of them, I daresay (based on several years reading posts here) know MUCH more about amplification, effects, mic'ing techniques, room acoustics and other technical details than the average steel player - you could probably learn a lot about getting better sound from THEM.

But many of you would rather not disturb your little, safe, sheltered world where you can hear the same songs played by the same guys on the same equipment every year, ad nauseum.

Great. Have a "traditional steel show", just for you who want to feel "safe" and keep the reputation of the instrument unsullied.

But you better plan on there being more "open" shows, concerts, product demos, etc with progressive players, or your sources for equipment will start drying up...and as players "retire" or pass on your shows are going to shrink...and you'll be without them entirely unless you learn to change your attitudes and accept different musical styles.

[Jody Sanders]

The band I work with is a very progressive band. We have opened for several of these acts that do the profanity. etc. and the audience also do their thing. I am thankful that after the opening, we get paid and are free to leave, so I don't have to listen to more than 30 minutes of their rantings. Whether we like it or not, steel guitar shows are not going to attract the 18 to 28 crowd. I am glad my two daughters grew up before it got fashionable to act this way and cater to the profanity that is done in this day and time. Bye, Bye. Jody.

[Jett Cornett]

I tend to agree with alot of you, but if you think all people listen to top 40 country you are wrong. More then ever there are hybrid styles of country that are drivin by the pedal steel sound. The problem is lack of players everyone uses the same guys on sessions and can't duplicate the recordings live. Every show I see with a pedal steel player on stage ends up the same way. People asking what instrument is that guy playing? They know and love the sound they just don't see it enough to know. Young people love classic country more than when I was younger. I listened to Garth Brooks, they are listning to Waylon Jennings. I knew what a steel was, and they don't, because they don't see steel when they go to regular shows.

[Jim Cohen]

Every show I see with a pedal steel player on stage ends up the same way. People asking what instrument is that guy playing? They know and love the sound they just don't see it enough to know.

And many leave the show still not knowing!

So... maybe we should all make a pact to emblazen 'PEDAL STEEL GUITAR' in big bold letters on the front of all our guitars, or at least a large sign on the floor next to the guitar with an arrow pointing to it!!

[Jett Cornett]

I'm IN!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jim Cohen]

[Brint Hannay]

Great idea, Jimbeaux! One gets tired of repeating "It's a steel guitar" or "It's a pedal steel guitar" over and over again!

On the other hand, there's always the compensating thought "Thank God they don't know what it sounds like when somebody actually knows how to play it!"

[Abel Khineche]

Hi Jim et Al,

Why not targeting young and (not so young, like me) guitar players. I am new to steel, but it's by searching a good guitar sound for a strat that I came across the Steel sound. And I love it more than any strat sound.
I am glad I can't have it on a strat or Gretsch otherwise I wouldn't play Steel anymore.
I just wish I could play steel at least at the level I play guitar. I would play only steel.
It's the sound that does it.
I found out on this website that you could even have distortion on a steel guitar(I didn't know that before). I personally like clean sound and don't like distortion, but it's appealing to young guitar players.

Best Regards,
Abel

[Ben Jones]

I loved the one steel show i went to. I think you guys would be better off not trying to appeal to the youth culture and just being yourselves, liking what you like, playing what you play, dressing and talking and acting how you do. I enjoyed experiencing something like i never had before in a musical gathering. It was really different for me and it was pretty cool in its own way. Attempts to cater to youth almost always backfire and come out completely lame...like when your mom tries to use your slang or something. Just be yourselves, everything will be fine...dont worry about the future so much, it will be whatever it will be. I'll just speak for myself and say I admire and respect and am a bit jealous even of your skills, talent and experiences and its a pleasure and a priveledge to watch you guys play. no need to buff it up with profanity and exposed body parts

It wouldnt hurt anything to be open minded tho. there was even a fuzz box at the steel show I was at and no one got hurt too bad in the mosh pit that ensued.

[Clyde Mattocks]

One of the best threads we've had in a while and a lot of valid, intelligent comments even coming from 180 degrees in viewpoint.

My take on the state of America's youth. I play in
bands with kids who could be my grandchildren. They
are just like I was at that age. They are there for the music and they haven't been around long enough to
become opinionated old geezers like us. Not too long
ago I was playing a regular country gig with guys close to my age and this back clad youngster with
piercings, tatoos and spiked hair stood watching us
intently. Well, my senior's predjucices kicked in and I wondered, What is this guy doing here? When
the band took a break, he stepped up on stage, stuck
out his hand and said, "Awesome band, man!"

I encounted almost his twin working as a salesman in
Guitar Center two weeks ago and in our conversation
found this guy to be very much into and completely
knowlegeable about old country music.

It's just not all gloom and doom!