Acoustic Pedal Steel

Tony Dingus · Post by **Tony Dingus** » 3 Feb 2008 4:56 pm

Dan,I've been wondering how the projects going?

Tony

Tommy R. Butler · Post by **Tommy R. Butler** » 3 Feb 2008 5:16 pm

Me tooooo

Paul Redmond · Post by **Paul Redmond** » 4 Feb 2008 1:28 am

Me too!!!
PRR

Dan Burnham · Post by **Dan Burnham** » 4 Feb 2008 7:57 am

Thanks guys for asking.

First, since our last thread we have made several changes to the original design. We were looking at resonation from the top all the way through the body so we had to scrap our first design in favor of better resonation design.

Second, we are honored to have Mark Giles partner with us on this project to help with design and the building of the body of the acoustic steel.
I can't think of any better body man in the world. Mark is an accomplished luther in his own right and has turned out some of the best looking steel bodys ever. Mark told me he has been thinking about it for some time.

Lastly, We have the frame done at this point to compensate for the current acoustic body design. We are in the process of making the changer and keyhead for it now. We have sent Mark the plans for the 2nd prototype body.

We all concluded the frame concept was the best way to go because we could seat the acoustic chamber down in the frame and secure it. The other cool thing is if all goes as plan we should have full resonation from the body and frame.

I hope you guys understand, this is more of a labor of love. Our goal was to try to bring something new and fresh to the steel world. You will not believe the discouragement we have received about doing the project. That is ok, we just want to try it. If it flops, so be it, at least we can say we tried.

We are not sure how it will sound as of yet, we know we don't want it to sound like a dobro. In fact it is possible that the sound may not be acceptable to steel players, acoustically speaking. In the current design it will have an acoustic port, a standard pickup, and a piezo pickup.

That is about all I have to tell at this point.

Our projected goal has now been moved to POSSIBLY THE ST. LOUIS SHOW.....I HOPE

Thanks guys,

Dan (BMI)

Tony Dingus · Post by **Tony Dingus** » 4 Feb 2008 9:32 am

Thanks Dan, about not being acceptable to steel players, I like different, something new, it's no different than using effects pedals. I've been trying to figure a design for a pedal dobro or acoustic from the first time I heard Paul play the pedabro. If it flops it flops, it can't be said you didn't try but, you'll learn something from it. How many strings and pedals will there be? Any ideal of the price range? Thanks, Tony

Dan Burnham · Post by **Dan Burnham** » 4 Feb 2008 9:39 am

Tony,
The first prototype with be a 10 string keyless E9, 5 & 3. If, which is a big if, it is successful then we will possibly venture out.
Regarding price it's hard to say. I would think they would be very reasonable compared to standard units. I will be able to give you an idea after we finish the completed prototype.
I'll keep you posted on it. Thanks again,
Dan

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 4 Feb 2008 11:48 am

Dan, first I want to say that I'm excited by this project, and if it works, and you build a U-12 version I may just buy one.

Having said that, I must tell you that I've done a bit of experimenting with Peizo pickups on my steel, and have come to the conclusion that using them is nit a good idea. The problem is that they pick up and amplify all the mechanical noise of the pedals.

The only was Peizos would work would be if there was an effective way to filter this out.

The Line 6 Variax uses Peizo pickups. A steel with the variax's capacity for different sounds would be wonderful, but the mechanical noise makes the idea impossible.

Dan Burnham · Post by **Dan Burnham** » 4 Feb 2008 2:14 pm

Mike Thanks. It didn't think about that. That is good info. What if it sat on a suspension of some sort?
Dan

John Steele (deceased) · Post by **John Steele (deceased)** » 4 Feb 2008 2:19 pm

I've heard of using Velcro to mount pickups lately... I don't know if that would solve the piezo pickup noise problem, but it might be worth a try.
-John

Michael Maddex · Post by **Michael Maddex** » 2 Feb 2009 10:15 am

How's the Acoustic PSG project coming along? Unless I missed another post, it's been about a year now since we've heard anything. Do you have a prototype? Any photos? I'd like to see anything from six strings and one pedal on up. Like the other members here, I'm excited about this project.

Thanks for any info you can get us.

Dan Burnham · Post by **Dan Burnham** » 4 Feb 2009 1:03 pm

Guys,
Offical Update - Mark Giles is doing the body design. We met offically in St. Louis and Mark has started on the body. Don Fritche is working on the keyless keyhead, and changer. It is looking like the scale will be 25". Progress is extremely slow, because of doing the real work to make a living.
So where are we in the prototype process:

We had to scrap the first system because of the bridging problem. We have tried to keep the changer fingers the same length without having to do major changes to the finger length.

OK some More News---------Acoustic----------

I have been working with Johnny King of LaVergne Tennessee and we will be revealing the "Acoustic Lap Steel" not to be confused with the Acoustic Pedal Steel. We will have 2 models at the Ill. Steel Guitar show this year.

1. We have made 2 prototypes out of Paulownia Wood which is extremely light, super light.

2. 25" Scale and the sucker honks loud.

3. It will be keyless and come in 6, 8, 10 string.

4. This little lap steel is as loud as a dobro or acoustic guitar.

5. It will be keyless.

6. We will make them available with a pickup as well.

Paulownia Wood is not as pretty as maple but it is 90 % lighter and resonates better, in my opinion......

We are in final stages of development of the acoustic lap steel.

Ok, back to the Acoustic Pedal Steel, I'm sorry that I can't give a final release date, but the development has been really slow. I will say this, we have one of the greatest steel players in the world that has been watching this project and has active involvement in the project development so that also plays a factor in the final development and release time. When we get it assembled, and tested I will post here announcing it.

Tony Dingus · Post by **Tony Dingus** » 4 Feb 2009 3:07 pm

Dan, do you have a ballpark figure of the price?

Tony

Dan Burnham · Post by **Dan Burnham** » 4 Feb 2009 6:32 pm

We don't yet. We will have to build 2 of them. After the prototype we will build one and figure time and cost and labor.

The acoustic lapsteel should sale between 400 & 600 rough figures.

Dan

HowardR · Post by **HowardR** » 4 Feb 2009 7:20 pm

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 4 Feb 2009 7:22 pm

The only way Peizos would work would be if there was an effective way to filter this out.

I don't like piezos. (They require a preamp.) Magnetic pickups would work fine Magnetic pickups on an acoustic steel could be made very small, and they do not have to mount on the soundboard - where they may reduce volume.

Paul Redmond · Post by **Paul Redmond** » 9 Feb 2009 12:26 am

The late Fred Martin of Swannanoa NC used to use Royal Paulownia for the tops of many of his fretted dulcimers. It DOES have a decidedly rich tone to it. It finishes easily and the grain pattern is far from ugly.
PRR

Rich Peterson · Post by **Rich Peterson** » 9 Feb 2009 9:49 am

Paulownia that is "farmed," so the growth is accelerated, is not so attractive, but that which grows more slowly is lovely.

Dan Burnham · Post by **Dan Burnham** » 9 Feb 2009 6:19 pm

It is a fast grow, 10 years till mature. What is impressive is the wait of the wood. Absolutely awesome. The Prototype Acoustic Lap we have now resonates beautifully. The whole thing vibrates and has adequate volume. We will have one or two at the Ill show this year.
Dan

Doug Palmer · Post by **Doug Palmer** » 10 Feb 2009 2:04 pm

I'm confused. If you are making an acoustic instrument why have a pick-up at all? Use a microphone.

A friend of mine has built a light operated pickup for steel with 10 outputs. I've played it and it sounds just like a regular pickup. If interested eMail me and I'll get you his number.

Doug

Dan Burnham · Post by **Dan Burnham** » 10 Feb 2009 7:54 pm

Basically, to allow you to play with

Blue Grass Groups, and if you want to plug into an amp you have that option with out concern about picking up to much around you through the mic.

But here's the thing, with a TRUE blue grass band there should be no microphones because of it's very nature.

This all come about because where I used to live, there was a blue grass band there I wanted to sit in with. Well, because I had an amp, they wouldn't let me bring my steel. YET, they sang through a PA! talk about double standard. Their answer was to come back with a dobro! Well maybe I don't want to play a dobro, maybe I want to play something with my basic tuning thus led me to working on these project.

I would like the gentleman's phone number please, and thanks,

Dan

Brint Hannay · Post by **Brint Hannay** » 10 Feb 2009 8:52 pm

Howard R--

What's the story on the instrument in the picture?

Joe Rogers · Post by **Joe Rogers** » 10 Feb 2009 11:24 pm

Sorry, but a TRUE bluegrass band will most likely not let you sit in because it has pedals. Why do I say that? When I first moved to Nashville, I attended a large party consisting of Bluegrass, Cajun and Country pickers. I had never in my life experienced playing Bluegrass, so I pulled my Ped-A-Bro alongside a group. Not only did they not let me take a solo, they never once acknowledged I was even sitting among them. In other words, not a single person looked me in the eye.

As I was later packing my gear, the fiddle player walked by. I looked him dead in the eye and with a HUGE smile on my face I said, "Man I really enjoyed jamming with you guys". From what I understand the fiddle player is now a lawyer.

Joe Rogers

Paul Redmond · Post by **Paul Redmond** » 11 Feb 2009 1:32 am

I run into the "Bluegrass snobbery" up here in IL all the time. I was 'permitted' to attend an 'acoustic' jam session/show because one of their main performers was a lady I had just recorded an album with. The crowd loved the songs I played, but my steel sat there all night and not one of the 'acoustic' musicians asked me to accompany them during the entire night. I declined requests to come there again, but after 1-1/2 years, I re-appeared. There were actually enough people in the crowd who 'demanded' I return, that I caved in and performed. I was met with standing applause after each song. I can only surmise that true country afficionados like country music in its entirety and not just the damned stuff where all the musicians are trying to be the first to get to the end of the song.
Carl Tucker attended a 'Bluegrass' jam in Harding IL one night and he's one of the best electric lead players I've ever known. When he started to carry in his amp, he was told in a not-too-polite way that that s___ isn't tolerated here. He went home.
Locally, we've countered this "Bluegrass high" that some of these snobs seem to be on by hosting our own events featuring traditional country only. When the snobs come back and tell us that Bluegrass IS traditional country by definition, we just ask them where their amp is and THEY go home. The "three-chords-and-a-capo" folks don't even want to acknowledge the real true country music and make no bones about telling us so. Their loss!!!
PRR

Ernie Pollock · Post by **Ernie Pollock** » 11 Feb 2009 5:38 am

That makes most of us steel players just hate bluegrass, I like the bluegrass songs & enjoy playing some of them on pedal steel, but most of the bluegrassers in this area are really bull headed & will allow no electric instruments. They do use PA's which is amazing to me that they would use such a monster in there music, it just makes that horrible nasil singing sound more awful than it already does!! Like some of you guys, I enjoy playing my dobro once in a while, but don't care for a steady diet of it, or just acoustic all the time. I look for most of the bluegrassers to get rid of all there electric appliances, & those awful automobiles that they drive & probably move into any available caves that they can find!!
To spite it all, I still love the Osbourne Brothers [probably spelled wrong] & I recall hearing steel in several of there albums, they have a fan in me forever.

Ernie

Doug Palmer · Post by **Doug Palmer** » 11 Feb 2009 6:20 am

Dan, I don't think it is snobbery. They(Bluegrasser's) have a love and respect for their music. Many of them don't want to change it. If they make one exception and let an electric instrument in, before you know it there will be some rock puke with a Marshall and a Les Paul bleeding everybody's ears.

Check your eMail for that phone number.

Doug

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