MSA Millenium sound.

Steve Alcott · Post by **Steve Alcott** » 28 Dec 2007 9:27 am

I almost completely agree with Reece. There are instruments, not only steel guitars, that have a "tone". Think Les Paul/Tele, Emmons PP/ZB, etc. In the bass world, a fine Italian bass will have a different sound compared to a fine French bass or a fine German bass, and a Fender sounds different from a Danelectro. The instrument is the machine we use to express ourselves. If it has its own sound, and we find that sound pleasing and compatible with the way we play and the sound we hear in our heads,then that's the one we play. My point about the Millennium is that it has a pure sound that enables the player to impose his own musical/tonal personality. If that personality is strong and individual, it will come through no matter what brand the instrument is. Reece sounds like Reece on every steel I've heard him play, Emmons always sounds like Emmons, etc., etc.

Ulf Edlund · Post by **Ulf Edlund** » 28 Dec 2007 3:06 pm

tone is in the hands, not in the guitar. The guitar has no tone.

So if you strum it with your foot all you'll hear is silence?

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 28 Dec 2007 5:23 pm

I believe that some guitars have an inherent sound...that can be modified by a seasoned player - or a good amp. When a beginner plays a particular guitar, he gets only that guitar's dominant sound. Experts can make any brand sound (pretty much) like any other. The silly counter-arguments often heard, like "Well, a Les Paul sounds different than a Tele, doesn't it?" aren't really valid, and only serve to cloud what is a very simple playing field where pedal steels are concerned.

Eric West · Post by **Eric West** » 28 Dec 2007 11:19 pm

Ulf.

Only if you are in a forest..

Donny.

It's you alright.

I thought it was a burglar on your computer.

EJL

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 29 Dec 2007 6:41 am

Yes, it's me alright...that rare person that realizes fully that one guitar is capable of altogether different tones.

Larry Robertson · Post by **Larry Robertson** » 30 Dec 2007 1:47 am

Hey guys, I'd like to get this thread back on subject. I appreciate all the words about the millennium, but I am looking for RECORDINGS made with it. Most of us know all the variables in tone (hands, string type & age, picking location, etc. I think Reese listed about 20 variables), but no amount of words will come close to actually hearing it. And we know that recordings can vary for the same instrument. But, I would like to Hear it in all/any of its variations. If anyone knows of any recording that was positively done on a millennium I would like to hear it. Also, any millennium owners who would like to send me any recordings via email I would love to hear them. My email: falcondoctor@msn.com. Thanks, Larry.

Carl Heatley · Post by **Carl Heatley** » 30 Dec 2007 10:13 am

Check out Randel Currie on Brad Paisley's
MR. Policeman.

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 30 Dec 2007 1:47 pm

chris ivey wrote:so.....what?.....it's official now? we have to call them 'millies' to be cool now?

No, I have seniority...and I prefer "Mill".

"Millie" or "Milly" just sounds wayyyy to feminine for my tastes!

If Barbara Mandrell buys a pink one, she can call hers a Milly.

----------------

Hey guys, I'd like to get this thread back on subject.

Oh for Pete's sake! It sounds pretty much like every other good guitar out there today. Are you looking for a reason to buy one, or an excuse not to buy one?

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 30 Dec 2007 2:06 pm

Donny Hinson wrote:
chris ivey wrote:so.....what?.....it's official now? we have to call them 'millies' to be cool now?
No, I have seniority...and I prefer "Mill".

"Millie" or "Milly" just sounds wayyyy to feminine for my tastes!

But aren't instruments suppose to be like women? Don't we stroke and fondle them and touch them in intimate places?

Donny Hinson · Post by **Donny Hinson** » 30 Dec 2007 4:24 pm

Sorry Mike, doesn't work that way.

You see, eventually...I can understand and manipulate an instrument, and make it do my every bidding.

I've never had that success with women!

Have you?

Jim Sliff · Post by **Jim Sliff** » 30 Dec 2007 6:22 pm

The MSA site touts its tone as "second to none" and describes...in specifics...some of the unique tonal qualities of the Millennium..

Reece, however, continues to insist tone is in the hands...albeit based on testing where he allegedly used tone controls to alter or mask some guitars' sounds to keep the listener from identifying them (some would call that "home court advantage

.

So, it seems they either have the unique tone touted on the MSA site or they only have the tone of the hands of the player sitting in front of one. Those things are mutually exclusive - as Kevin implies, if a guitar has a unique tone it has something that sets it apart....yet the head guy says differently?

Maybe someday they'll make up their mind which it is. In the meantime I'd listen to the opinions of several players to get a feel for it - but based on the web description and Reece's opposing views, I probably wouldn't buy one unless I played it myself, though my amp setup, first.

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 30 Dec 2007 6:35 pm

Donny Hinson wrote:Sorry Mike, doesn't work that way.

You see, eventually...I can understand and manipulate an instrument, and make it do my every bidding.

I've never had that success with women!

Have you?

No Donny, but not for lack of trying

Still, regardless of how successful our efforts with the fair gender may (or rather may not) be, would you want to place your hands an a man's undercarriage?

Al Collinsworth · Post by **Al Collinsworth** » 30 Dec 2007 7:32 pm

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 30 Dec 2007 11:26 pm

Well, Jim's bringing the "inherent tone vs. tone is in the hands" thread into this one. My take on that is that it would be silly to believe the manufacturer's promotional hype on any guitar. So forget that stuff. It's the American way. What Reece is personally and very candidly saying here on the Forum, seems to very much agree with what Jim himself has complained about, which is that most modern all-pulls sound so much alike, nobody can distinguish them in a blind test. I would put the Milly right in there with the rest of them. I have had a Sho-Bud Pro III, Emmons p/p S12 ext. E9, Carter D12, Fessy S12U, Zum S12U, and Milly S12U. All had Truetone pups except the Carter. I don't think I could pick any of them out in a blind test, with the possible exception of the Emmons p/p.

Also, there is another issue that complicates this debate. Even though I might not be able to hear differences as a listener in a blind test, when I play these different guitars, I feel and hear differences in the sound, and I'm not talking about the machanics. Especially on the p/p, I feel a brighter, twangier tone, with stronger mids and overtones that give better string separation, and more sustain. The strings just feel more alive. But it is very difficult not to automatically compensate for that with my picking style and volume pedal use, so that a listener would likely hear no difference. I just feel like it is easier to get sustain on the p/p, and I have to work the volume pedal less. I think this is why so many players have a strong feeling a p/p is different, but that doesn't necessarily carry over into a difference a listener can hear, especially in recordings. Among my guitars, I place the Milly closest to the p/p in the way I feel and hear it when I play (again, not talking about the mechanics, for which the Milly beats everything).

While Reece has actually done the blind tests with many experienced players (and found they couldn't distinguish different brands), as far as I can remember, Jim only speaks of his listeners being able to distinguish between a GFI modern all-pull and a vintage Fender cable-pull. When somebody posted a clip of Chuck Berry playing his Fender, even with an MP3 file and my cheap computer speakers, I guessed correctly he was playing a Fender before I knew for sure. Those zingy low-count windings in the pickup are very recognizable. That's not at all the same kind of test Reece has described.

So I think Reece and Jim are actually both in agreement that modern all-pulls with similar pickups sound very much alike. And I think the many players who hear distinctive tone in Fenders, ZBs, push/pulls and other vintage instruments with unique pickups and construction are also right. Some of those differences can be heard by listeners, but maybe some can only be felt by the player.

So as usual, I think most people actually agree with each other on this stuff, if you get the semantics and definitions and tests thoroughly described.

Al Collinsworth · Post by **Al Collinsworth** » 31 Dec 2007 3:22 am

Jani Peter Sandvik · Post by **Jani Peter Sandvik** » 31 Dec 2007 4:08 am

If youre not prety sure ...
Then i suggest you listen to the inner tone

Al Collinsworth · Post by **Al Collinsworth** » 31 Dec 2007 4:23 am

Jani Peter Sandvik · Post by **Jani Peter Sandvik** » 31 Dec 2007 4:25 am

Al Collinsworth wrote:Hey Jani, what's that snoring sound? Did something fall asleep?

idunno i think its the expansion

James Quackenbush · Post by **James Quackenbush** » 31 Dec 2007 7:25 am

When I had my Millenium , I heard an "acoustic" type tone that I have never heard in any other steel ...It was very flattering to my ear, and had an almost hollow type tone reminisent of an acoustic guitar ...I have a 6 string electric guitar that has similar qualities ...It has sort of a hollow wooden tone to it that I really liked ... I had a new Excel on order so I sold the Millenium , but did enjoy the tone and mechanics of it ...

I too think that David hit the nail on the head too with his thoughts on the player actually feeling the tone,therefore having a different feeling while the listener hearing basically the same thing ...I know when I am playing a steel with good mechanics, and good tone, and I like the pickup and amp and everything lines up just right , I actually play BETTER because I am content with all of the above ...I might very well sound the same to the listennner, but I feel better, and while my tone may be the same , my playing sounds better ..Which brings me to ....

Is tone really in the hands, or is the tone already there ?.....Maybe it's the players ability to shape that tone by their ability, and their style of playing that shapes that tone that makes folks say "He's got great tone" or " She's got great tone"....So maybe the instrument DOES play more of roll in the tone than just the hands ...but the hands are as important if not more important ...Jim

Duane Dunard · Post by **Duane Dunard** » 2 Jan 2008 9:04 am

I really like the tone of my MSA Mill, and the name Milly just doesn't fit my guitar at all. An M-3 Mill with Tonealigner pick-ups "adjusted properly", a Nashville-112 with mod chips, B.W. speaker installed, and a Boss RV-3, gives me what I want in tone on stage. I try to be myself, not a copy of someone else, even though I will copy a signature lick or chord whenever I can, I won't loose any sleep if I don't capture that star artist's exact tone.

Junior Knight · Post by **Junior Knight** » 2 Jan 2008 10:20 am

Having worked for the old MSA and the new MSA and playing them both..this is my 2 cents; old MSA...
I played both the wood bodies and formica covered bodies,they both played GREAT!! I liked the wood bodies best,to my ears they sounded warmer...
New MSA...I didn't play the wood bodies,I only had the Carbon Fiber..great guitars..stayed in tune,light weight,sounded GREAT..very clean even tone,but for me..I never could find my sweet spot for the tone I wanted..just my 2 cents.
The new MSA's are great..designed by great people.

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 20 Apr 2008 4:57 am

You can hear one example of a Millenium, played a cappella, at www.SteelGuitarJazz.com . Click on the left for 'Listening Library' and then click the first song ('Mystery Jazz Steeler #9). The song is Lush Life, on C6.

KENNY KRUPNICK · Post by **KENNY KRUPNICK** » 20 Apr 2008 11:42 am

I'd like to hear what the Studio Pro sounds like. JD Maness plays one,and with the 24 1/4 " scale,it should have great sustain.

Darvin Willhoite · Post by **Darvin Willhoite** » 20 Apr 2008 4:01 pm

My new Studio Pro has the most sustain of any of my guitars. I'm also using a new Tribo Tone bar, which may have something to do with it, but then when strum the guitar acoustically, it rings for a long time. This is a great guitar. I'll get it recorded one of these days.

Brett Day · Post by **Brett Day** » 20 Apr 2008 4:37 pm

Randle Currie actually plays on all of the songs on Brad Paisley's current record. I think Randle's playin' his MSA Millennium on it.

Brett

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