Hum bug Ok what can single coil users do to buck the Hum

Jonathan Mitguard · Post by **Jonathan Mitguard** » 9 Dec 2007 1:52 pm

Has anyone had any luck eliminating the hum or at least keeping it acceptable. Mine is typically OK but last night I had the Hum from hell. Sometime positioning can improve things but you know space is usually tight.

Dyke Corson · Post by **Dyke Corson** » 9 Dec 2007 3:31 pm

I had to play a gig in a club with RF Hum so bad it was making my EMGs in my strat and my 108Ns in my Push Pull buzz like a banshee. I barrowed a new pedal from the store called "Hum De-Bugger" (or something like that) from Electro-Harmonix and it saved my rear end that night! There was a faint "clicking" sound going on, but nothing as bad as the hum I was getting in that room. It changed my 6 string tone slightly, more noticeable on the "overdrive" patches than on the clean ones. I did not get a chance to try it with the PP. I was very impressed with this product, I think I should keep one in my steel seat.

Dave Zirbel · Post by **Dave Zirbel** » 9 Dec 2007 5:50 pm

Just got back from a session and we were getting a serious humm from the ole' Bud. Then we turned off the lights and it went away!

Hi Jonathan.

DZ

Dennis Wallis · Post by **Dennis Wallis** » 9 Dec 2007 10:08 pm

There is a thing called "Hum Eliminator" made by Electro Harmonix. Works great.There is a small 2 channel version and an 8 channel rack mount.It doesn't change the tone (that I can tell) and it doesn't require power.
"How much hum could a humbucker buck if a humbucker could buck hum ?"

Jonathan Mitguard · Post by **Jonathan Mitguard** » 9 Dec 2007 11:29 pm

Dave, So your playing in the dark again?

Guess I'll have to check out the "Hum Eliminator" cus I got to see what I'm doing.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 10 Dec 2007 7:57 am

It is my understanding that the Hum Eliminator and other such devices eliminate ground loop hum, which comes from hooking two or more amps or preamps together, but they do nothing to eliminate the 60 cycle hum of single-coil pickups.

The only thing I have ever found that minimizes single-coil hum is to get the pickup as close to the strings as possible. That has no effect on the hum, but at least gets the string signal as stong as possible to raise the signal to noise ratio. Supposedly if you get too close, the magnets in the pickup can dampen string sustain. But in my experience you get string rattle before that happens. About the thickness of a quarter coin is as close as is practical.

Things in the environment that cause hum are fluorescent and neon lights, reostats, stage lights, wiring in the walls, etc. Sometimes moving or angling the guitar in relation to the source of the hum helps.

Dave Zirbel · Post by **Dave Zirbel** » 10 Dec 2007 8:03 am

There were plenty of windows to let the sunshine in. I'll bring candles and kerosene lamps to my next night session.

Dyke Corson · Post by **Dyke Corson** » 10 Dec 2007 8:27 am

It's NOT the Hum Eliminator, it's the Hum Debugger by Electro Harmonix... this one is different I can can vouch it did work for me

http://www.ehx.com/ehx2/Default.asp?q=f ... m_Debugger

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 10 Dec 2007 10:52 am

Read the instructions here:

Click Here

It removes the odd harmonics content of the hum when the switch is in one position. In the other position is removes both the odd and the even harmonics from the hum. I hope it leaves the harmonics of the original source (your guitar's pickup) alone.

Jonathan Mitguard · Post by **Jonathan Mitguard** » 10 Dec 2007 1:32 pm

So you don't think a behringer hum destroyer would do the trick. It is $20 vs $118 for the Electro Harmonix.

http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHHD400

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 10 Dec 2007 6:06 pm

Well, I'll be interested in hearing how well any of these work. There have been several threads on this in the past. As I remember, the gist of it is that the 60 cycle hum and its overtones overlap the fundamental tones and overtones played by the instrument. There is no way to notch or filter them out without taking out the same frequencies in the music made by the instrument. You can't take out the odd harmonics, much less the odd and the evens, without seriously affecting the tone. So it's a toss up as to whether the cure is worse than the disease. If there were such an easy solution to this problem, there wouldn't be so many people using humbuckers.

Dyke Corson · Post by **Dyke Corson** » 10 Dec 2007 6:52 pm

Like I said earlier in my other post, I could not tell much difference in the clean tones, it was a litte different, but not bad, just different.. but the overdrive patches had to be turned up a bit and sounded a little thinner, but tolerable. The faint "digital clicking" could have been just noise the Hum Debugger could not get rid of?? There is no way I could have played the gig without it, it was the club from Hell, loudest buzz I ever heard. Thankfully it was only a few blocks from my store so I could go get this to try it out. I would love to hear from someone else who has used the Hum Debugger.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 11 Dec 2007 4:28 am

A year or so back I sold my Carter ( regular working Steel) with two George L HBuckers and bought a newer Carter with two Wallace True Tones, man it sounded great..at home..never even considered the gig.

Took the new Steel to the monthly gig , Friday night..WOW !! GODZEEKS..whats going on !!!

Hum louder than the music coming out of the amp..
uh..oh...

Big stage, wires and lights everywhere..no chance of getting the CLUB owner to shut anything down, he has been there for 30 years and my Steel Guitar is the least of any issue he may have. He loves his big stage and everything on it..

muddled my way thru the gig..

the next morning I found an old GL Humbucker in the parts box and stuck it on the E9th neck, I loaded the Carter and my Emmons with two SC's on it so I could compare them on the stage when I returned for Sat night.

Sat afternoon I called Jerry Wallace,( True Tones ) I told him what was going on and what was on the stage and in the room. Asked him what I could do. he said, you already did it, you yanked the SC off the Steel and put the HBucker on it.

On the gig the Emmons was a bust and it's a good thing I put the crummy HBucker on the Carter, at least I could play with NO HUM.

THAT WAS THE FIX in this situation.

The next day I called another Steel player who plays the room and he kinda laughed and said been there dun that..he replaced his Emmons SC's with 705's. That was the fix.

Sorry guys, a $20 hum eliminator is just gonna cost $20 and not fix the problem. Why don't you just send me the $20 !, you'll get the same results !

Single Coils are great, until they're NOT

Dave Diehl · Post by **Dave Diehl** » 11 Dec 2007 4:42 am

I don't know what I'm doing different but I don't experience any hum in any of my guitars and they all have the single coil pickups.

John Billings · Post by **John Billings** » 11 Dec 2007 9:39 am

I don't think the Furman Power Factor PRO will help with Single Coil noise at all. It will clean up any line noise caused by dirty AC power. I have their IT 1220 here in my home studio, and it's great. But I don't think SC hum comes from dirty AC power, so I think it's unlikely to help.

James Quackenbush · Post by **James Quackenbush** » 11 Dec 2007 4:07 pm

The fix is easy ....ALL PEDAL STEEL MANUFACTURER'S PLEASE PUT INTERCHANGEABLE PICKUPS IN YOUR STEELS !!

How long is this problem going to continue to be a problem ?.....I don't get it ?.....All these companies trying to invent a new mouse trap , but only a certain few make it easy for us to change out pickups, so we can play hum free on a gig ( humbuckers ) and sound GREAT in the studio or at home ( Single Coils ) at any time we want ...Think about how many pickup makers would benefit from this !!....Think about how much more growth the pedal steel industry would have !!.....Come on guys !! It's a new century ....A little progress please !!......Sorry for the rant ...Then again, maybe I'm not .....Jim

Dave Diehl · Post by **Dave Diehl** » 12 Dec 2007 4:44 am

Larry Behm · Post by **Larry Behm** » 12 Dec 2007 5:01 am

I have a stomp box unit called the Decimater I am going to sell soon.

Larry Behm

Jonathan Mitguard · Post by **Jonathan Mitguard** » 12 Dec 2007 7:22 am

I am pretty certain the Hum I'm getting is air born. Positioning is a big factor as I discovered with this experiment. Plug the guitar straight into the amp, and if you have a head phone jack put on the head phones to really clearly hear the Hum. Then move about the room, you'll find some spots much better than others. Sometimes a 90 degree turn helps. I found the quietest was with the guitar sideways, the pickup vertical and the legs pointing out. It's kind of hard to play like that though. Of course you all know that most stages don't offer a lot of options as to where you can set up.

T. C. Furlong · Post by **T. C. Furlong** » 12 Dec 2007 12:11 pm

Jonathan,
The hum you are describing is most likely Electro-Magnetic Field induced. There is something that is radiating a magnetic field through the air and into your pick-up (and to a smaller extent cables and volume pedal) That's how the hum gets into your signal. Most times the culprit is a transformer that is basically just a coil that has electricity flowing through it. The fix is putting your pickup in a position that has the least amount of alignment with transformer -or- filter out the objectionable noise that gets into the signal chain. The Behringer device is a ground loop eliminator and it would do nothing about EMF interference. The Hum Debugger is a filter that can save the day with minimal tone change. I would say that Dyke's experience is a good testimonial to a great solution. Although I agree with James Q that easily swappable pickups should the norm and I'll go as far as to say that they be required by law

.

I design sound systems and stages for performance spaces and we go to great lengths to put a building transformer as far away from the stage as practical for this very problem. In some cases the building transformer will only go under or near the stage. We will demand that a shielded vault be built around the transformer to cut down on the problem for single coil users. BTW, a well designed pro sound system is virtually immuned to this type of hum because of the system being balanced thereby cancelling the hum that is present all along the way.
TC

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 12 Dec 2007 1:11 pm

It is true that you can clean up some AC LINE source hum, thats not what we are talking about here.

Dyke Corson · Post by **Dyke Corson** » 12 Dec 2007 1:45 pm

Tony this Hum Debugger IS a new product unlike anything I have ever tried before. Very effective on getting rid of single coil hum and buzz. It's not a power conditioner or working with AC lines, it goes between the guitar and the amp just like a stomp box.

Randy Cordle · Post by **Randy Cordle** » 12 Dec 2007 7:37 pm

OK, Here's a totally wacky idea for you. Don't chastise me, I'm just thinking out loud here, but if anyone's got a comment I'd love to hear it.

You could fit a "dummy" single coil with an "average" resistance/wind in a small unshielded wood box and connect one end to an input jack and the other end to an output jack. You could plug this between your single coil equipped guitar and amp and/or direct box IF severe hum problems were encountered. You should be able to place the box under the steel and ROTATE IT to cancel the induced AC hum that is being produced via your pickup. If your particular pickup was a non-standard wind direction the box could be flipped over. (Or you could use it this way to increase the hum if you really like 60 hz...)
It WOULD effect the tone, but no more than using a humbucker to begin with. It would not cancel 100% of induced hum, but it would knock it back to a manageable level. Cheap, easy to make, small, portable, totally non-invasive and requiring no changes to the instrument. Sounds too good to be true. What am I forgetting?
This should work for steel guitar because unlike a regular guitar, the pickup will be oriented the same way for an entire gig. (Unless you're doing the across-the-stage knee slide thing...

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 13 Dec 2007 4:34 am

Dyke, Yes I understand about this new Gizmo, my comment is based on the noise generated BEFORE the SC pickup.
(not South Carolina)

How does placing something at point B eliminate the air born noise generated ahead of point A ?

I am thinking an EQ style of elimination...especially based on the price...

It probably does work well in the rooms with a small amount of noise floating around..

T. C. Furlong · Post by **T. C. Furlong** » 13 Dec 2007 6:16 am

Randy, Only one problem that I can think of. The combined resistance would be half of your single coil by itself resulting in a very thin sound. In one guitar, I have my Cth pickup wired with the polarity inverted to work as a hum canceller. Works fine but it sounds too thin. I believe that coils in a humbucking pickup are wound to a higher impedance to compensate for thin tone that would result from lower impedances.

Tony, it is definitely a filter (EQ style of elimination) The art is in getting it to have the filters be very narrow and precise with little or no sign of affecting the sound. From Dyke's description, I think EH may have hit a home run.
TC