A bigsby that doesn't screw down to the top of a Paul or 335

Darryl Hattenhauer · Post by **Darryl Hattenhauer** » 4 Dec 2007 10:14 pm

Some guitars need a bigsby that is screwed to the top. As I understand it, that's because the strings on the bigsby side of the saddle can't be perpendicular to the saddle. Instead, they have to rise up toward the saddle at roughly a 45% angle. (Right so far?)

http://groups.msn.com/HattedFrausOrange/shoebox.msnw

But I think you could design a bigsby that you could put on a Les Paul or 335 that you wouldn't have to screw to the top of the guitar. So here's the solution (which I'm sure Paul Bigsby thought of and knew why it wouldn't work).

1) You make the hinge so that once it's screwed in around the endpin, you put the bigsby down on the top of the guitar, and the pin in the hinge can be tightened so it doesn't move. So now you have solved problem one: getting the bigsby to lay on the top without screwing it down. But you still have to get the strings to approach the saddle at a favorable angle.

2) You make the bigsby so long that it goes up close to the saddle, almost touching it.

3) You make the bar (to which the strings are attached) so low that it almost touches the guitar. (Any part of the bigsby touching the top of the guitar would be covered with felt or the like.)

4) You make the bar of the smallest diameter possible (to further increase the angle of the strings as they approach the saddle).

5) You have the strings come out from under the bar, and you have a kind of "reverse gear" so that pushing down on the handle still lowers, and pulling up still raises.

Should I move this to the comedy section?

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 5 Dec 2007 5:20 am

The Bigsby on this guitar is not screwed into the top. It is held in place by the end pin and three additional screws on the rim of the guitar, and floats above the top without touching it except at the one place that you can see where the tremolo bar is attached to the unit.

I assume this is a standard feature on all Gretsch guitars. If you compare this Bigsby unit with the one on the Guild that was linked to in the previous post, you can see that they are different.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 5 Dec 2007 6:21 am

The model on the above photo is a Bigsby B3 and is not intended for a Les Paul or Telecaster type Guitar. The B3 is for the 335 style Arch Top kinda style guitars, Gretsch, Guild, Gibsons etc...as Mike mentions, they mount down at the end of the Guitar where the strap button is and they do mount with 2 or 3 screws as well as the strap pin.

The B5 Model is for the smaller body electrics and they indeed screw down on the body ,aka: Tele's and Les Pauls...

Below is the end of my Epiphone Wildkat with the Bigsby B3 style ( Epiphone logo) showing the screws.

The bottom of the Bigsby B3 bodies do have a few small pieces of felt to protect the finish of the Guitar but NO SCREWS is not an option.

Happy Wednesday

tp

Jerry Hayes R.I.P. · Post by **Jerry Hayes R.I.P.** » 5 Dec 2007 12:45 pm

Hey Darryl, the solution can be found in the Stewart MacDonald catalog. They have a nice vibrato tail piece for a Les Paul or 335 which works great. I bought one for one of my 'pauls and how have a second one for an Epiphone Sheraton. They attach where the stud tailpiece goes. You can install one of these in about 10 or 15 minutes including stringing. Just take off the stud tailpiece and the two bolts (screws) which hold it on. Screw in the supplied new bolts and slide the unit on and tighten it down. It has metal pad that goes against the body with a double sided piece of tape that the spring goes against. It works great and does no harm to the guitar finish or anything else. I'm attaching a picture of it from the Stew/Mac catalog

.........JH in Va.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 6 Dec 2007 2:21 am

very interesting solution ! They look pretty cool....

www.stewmac.com

Darryl Hattenhauer · Post by **Darryl Hattenhauer** » 6 Dec 2007 9:54 am

Jerry,

Thanks for the tip. I'm especially glad to see that you've tried it and it works. It also strikes me as reasonably priced in the context of the cost of a bigsby and the damage a bigsby does.

This item might replace bigsbys on fixed-bridge guitars, and not just retro fits. Do any of the manufacturers use these on new guitars?

About the bigsby screw holes from mounting the ear around the end pin. Wouldn't it be easy to design a bigsby ear that holds the ear through the end pin without needing the screws to keep the ear from moving? You'd probably want an adjustable one-size-fits-all ear that would adjust up and down to fit the varying locations and diameters of end pins

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 6 Dec 2007 10:05 am

Keep in mind these units were designed way back and were included on many STOCK Guitars, we didn't take them off, the Guitars came with them. Those of us who didn't have Bigsby's on our Guitars ran out and got one. I don't think it was about damaging a guitar but rather having one installed forever...

t

Darryl Hattenhauer · Post by **Darryl Hattenhauer** » 6 Dec 2007 10:29 am

Right. And I like the old guitars with an original bigsby. But some people don't, so if you try to sell it with a hole in the top, you take a hit. For the same reason, if you retro fit it and put a hole in the top, you've probably lowered the market price.

A lot of marriages are forever, and a lot of
guitars and their bigsbys are soon parted. Those old Les Paul gold tops with a bigsby removed sell for less.

And then there's just my personal preference not to add holes to a guitar.

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 6 Dec 2007 12:54 pm

I think Reverend offers the Stew-Mac type trem as an option. My Reverend has a B5 Bigsby---I think it's an older model.
Y'all remember the ES-335's that had factory Bigsbys, then a little plastic strip that said "CUSTOM" glued to the top, to cover the stop tailpiece mounting holes?

Jerry Hayes R.I.P. · Post by **Jerry Hayes R.I.P.** » 6 Dec 2007 12:59 pm

I can't get to the 'paul right now but here's a shot of the Stew Mac unit installed on my Epi Sheraton. As you can see, the handle has a bend in it which is nice for height adjustment and it can also be slid back into the unit for length adjustment......JH in Va.

Darryl Hattenhauer · Post by **Darryl Hattenhauer** » 6 Dec 2007 1:00 pm

Stephen,

I got a good chuckle out of your note about Gibson covering unnecessary holes with a label that implies, "Hey, we're not hiding anything, we're customizing it--just for you. One size fits all. New and improved. The finest unnecessary holes in the world today."

Darryl Hattenhauer · Post by **Darryl Hattenhauer** » 6 Dec 2007 1:01 pm

Jerry,

Thanks for the good pic.

How does it work for you?

Jerry Hayes R.I.P. · Post by **Jerry Hayes R.I.P.** » 6 Dec 2007 1:05 pm

Darryl, the unit works great. It's pretty close to the operation ease of a Bigsby. I use it a lot when I'm on a guitar only gig for things like "Sleepwalk" and other steel type effects. Also for some of those old Duane Eddy things where you play open strings and work the arm with your left hand...........Cool unit....JH in Va.

Darryl Hattenhauer · Post by **Darryl Hattenhauer** » 6 Dec 2007 1:54 pm

Hey Jerry. That's exactly what I'm going to use it for.

I'm in Phoenix where Duane started out. (His first reverb used the cement mixing tank of a cement truck.) Duane's bass player, Al Casey (who was a great multi-instrumentalist) said he hated playing Peter Gunn at live gigs because they'd always let any horn or keyboard players stretch out, and Al would get a terminal case of carpal tunnel.

Darryl Hattenhauer · Post by **Darryl Hattenhauer** » 6 Dec 2007 9:38 pm

And another thing. That Stew-Mac deal looks so much better.

Jerry Hayes R.I.P. · Post by **Jerry Hayes R.I.P.** » 7 Dec 2007 9:22 am

Darryl, what's great about the Stew Mac units is that you could have a $50,000 '59 Les Paul that you wanted to add a vibrato to and you could use one of these without damaging the guitar or without drilling any holes at all. They send you 4 screws to use with it, two are Metric for use with foreign made guitars and two are USA thread. Just take your old stud tailpiece and bolts off and screw the new one right into the same holes, put a little graphite on your bridge saddles and nut slots and you're ready to go..............JH in Va.

Darryl Hattenhauer · Post by **Darryl Hattenhauer** » 7 Dec 2007 9:41 am

you could have a $50,000 '59 Les Paul that you wanted to add a vibrato to and you could use one of these without damaging the guitar or without drilling any holes at all.

That's exactly why I'm so happy about finding out about this--even though I'm going to use it on a $1,000 guitar.

Also, I think it might soon replace bigsbys on most new fixed-bridge guitars. I think this could be as important as Keith pegs replacing cam d-tuners on banjos.

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 7 Dec 2007 9:43 am

Jerry Hayes wrote: you could have a $50,000 '59 Les Paul

Jerry, if you can find a '59 Les Paul for only 50 grand, GRAB IT. I believe that one recently sold on E-Bay for $400,000.

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 7 Dec 2007 11:30 am

20 years ago, even 15, players used to gas on and on about how long and hard they had to search to find one of the "great" old Fenders or Gibsons - now they're ALL great...

I just saw a listing in Vintage Guitar magazine for a '69 Precision bass, $6,500 - post-CBS - that's $1,625 per string, all just to thump away down there.

Darryl Hattenhauer · Post by **Darryl Hattenhauer** » 7 Dec 2007 12:57 pm

that's $1,625 per string,

Post by **Dave Mudgett** » 7 Dec 2007 5:56 pm

you could have a $50,000 '59 Les Paul that you wanted to add a vibrato to and you could use one of these without damaging the guitar or without drilling any holes at all.

Jerry - if you see any nice '59 Les Pauls for $50,000 that you don't want, let me know and I'll be on the next plane in.

That looks like a real nice vibrato solution for a tune-a-matic. I have always felt that the Bigsby style vibrato was the best sounding on the planet.