carter starter??

Brooks Meeks · Post by **Brooks Meeks** » 28 Nov 2007 10:18 pm

OK. I know there is an 80% failure rate for dudes who want to learn pedal steel... I want to get a steel to learn on. Should I get a carter starter, and why is it no good compared to a pro model? What makes it different? Im sure electronics may be less cool and all, but can you learn what you need to know on a starter? Play the same stuff?

Calvin Walley · Post by **Calvin Walley** » 28 Nov 2007 10:26 pm

i think you would be better served with a Zum stage one or a GFI
they are very close in price but are much better guitars.

Jim Cohen · Post by **Jim Cohen** » 28 Nov 2007 10:39 pm

Oh, the electronics are fine. It's the mechanics that aren't as good and solid as on a Pro model. Of course, it's not designed to be, and is priced much lower. So, bottom line is, if you can afford a Pro model, even a good used one, go that route. If not, sure, get a student model, like the Carter Starter (or GFI student or Zum Stage 1, both of which I think cost more than the CS) and get going sooner rather than later. You can learn a lot on any of them. Just don't get an older Maverick with only one knee lever, okay? Promise?

Jerry Roller · Post by **Jerry Roller** » 28 Nov 2007 10:58 pm

I have several students playing Carter Starters and they are doing fine learning on them. When they are ready for a better instrument they can sell the Starter for nearly what they have in it. It works fine, sounds fine, and fills a real need quite well. I can't speak for the other student guitars as I have had no experience with them but I believe your question was about the Carter Starter anyway. I can recommend it without any reservation.
Jerry

Charles Davidson · Post by **Charles Davidson** » 28 Nov 2007 11:12 pm

Welcome Brooks,from Alabama,don't you know.

Steve Norman · Post by **Steve Norman** » 28 Nov 2007 11:56 pm

welcome! here we go....

I started with a carter starter, I even recorded with one. After a year or so I upgraded to a GFI ultra d-10. I sold the carter starter and now wish I hadnt. It is a good CHEAP backup guitar to have around (as long as you dont pay more than $600!) One thing you will find is that carrying around a steel everywhere you go really sucks. REALLY sucks. As janky and wobbly as the carter starter is, it is LIGHT. If you are a gigging musician and have to move your inst around for practices and shows all the time its nice to have the light option. I play in a bunch of bands and of course they cant practice in the same spot, so It would be nice to have a light one to haul around when I dont need the gfi, or be able to leave one somewhere and have my good one under my eye. The other advantage is for playing gigs where you have to worry about someone attacking it. I would shoot myself (or somebody) if something happened to my GFI, but with a carter starter no big loss. ($600 vrs $3000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!). One thing to watch tho,,there are BMI's floating around for about the same price that are less janky than the carter for about the same amount.

The short answer: its good to learn on,and sounds good enough to play out with. Yes you can learn what you need to on it. You WILL want to upgrade if you stick with it. If you are planning to own only one guitar for a long time I would recommend one of the ones Calvin and the others mentioned. The resale on any good pedal steels is good. If you dump $2000 into a new steel that you dont want you will get back most of your investment if you decide to sell. If you get a carter starter, worst case scenario is this: you stick with it and want to get a pro model sometime, and then you will have 2 steels!

BTW I personally dont know anyone who has started playing ped steel that has quit all together. They may not progress well, but they still do it.

Mike Perlowin RIP · Post by **Mike Perlowin RIP** » 29 Nov 2007 3:59 am

What you want in a student guitar is a minimum of 3 knee levers, preferably 4 or 5. The Carter Starter has 4, which is more than enough to keep you going for years. I don't know how many the others that were mentioned have.

WHATEVER YOU DO, DO NOT BUY A GUITAR THAT ONLY HAS ONE KNEE LEVER. It is better to have a knee lever which you have not yet learned how to use, than to read or be taught how it works and not have it on your guitar.

Charlie Tryon · Post by **Charlie Tryon** » 29 Nov 2007 5:33 am

I think you should take a close look at the Jackson Blackjack it is priced right and you will never need another guitar unless you want to do some C'6. Base price with 3&1 just under a grand, you can add up to four more levers at around 150.00 each. These little guitars are great IMHO.

Charlie

Brooks Meeks · Post by **Brooks Meeks** » 29 Nov 2007 5:41 am

Okay, I know a guy that has a shobud pro-1 for sale. Its a 3 4 i think, and is about 30% more money. I would bet it is a better guitar, but how do I tell whether it will stay in tune, mechanics all function properly... etc.

Btw, Hey Charles!! Phenix city, eh? I used to live in Auburn, and hung out quite a bit in Phenix City. Any changes since 1999?

Bill Moore (RIP) · Post by **Bill Moore (RIP)** » 29 Nov 2007 6:14 am

Brooks, that's probably a fair price for the Sho-Bud, But, unless the seller can demonstrate to you that everything is in playing condition, you may be better off passing on it. If its need some work, your investment goes up. From what I have seen, if I were buying a new student guitar, it would be the Zum. If price was the most important factor, I would probably buy a used carter starter, for 500-600. If I wanted to buy the best guitar for the money, it would be a used BMI S-10. Good luck.

Kenny Brown · Post by **Kenny Brown** » 29 Nov 2007 9:09 am

I didn't notice anyone mention the Emmons student guitar. I play this guitar and it sounds great and can have knee levers added to it. It's much more sturdy than a starter yet still lightweight, sounds terrific!

Brooks, lots of changes to Auburn since 1999!

Dave Stagner · Post by **Dave Stagner** » 29 Nov 2007 9:17 am

The shortcuts in the Carter Starter aren't in the electronics (which iirc are the same as professional Carters). Rather, it's in the changer, which is fixed in a standard E9 and can't be altered to other copedents; and in the hardware and case, which aren't as sturdy as pro models. I've not heard any complaints about the sound!

Others have given a lot of good advice here. My first (and only) pedal is a vintage Sho-Bud that cost me about as much as a new Carter Starter. Sure, it's a pro instrument and loaded with vintage cool, but I've also had to put a fair bit of work into tuning and tweaking it to get it back to fighting shape. The nice thing about a Carter Starter (or Zum Stage One, or other modern beginner steel) is that you're getting a NEW instrument, that won't need lots of maintenance. Unless you're the kind of nerd who enjoys restoring vintage instruments, I'd definitely buy one of the modern starter instruments!

Others have observed that there's basically no such thing as a badly made pedal steel, at least not from name-brand makers. The market is just too small and specialized to justify building junk.

Joey Ace · Post by **Joey Ace** » 29 Nov 2007 9:28 am

The Electronics are different in a Carter Starter.
They had pickup especially designed for it.

I believe a beginner should have a 3P 4K instrument.

Calvin Walley · Post by **Calvin Walley** » 29 Nov 2007 10:39 am

Joey

i like your little buddy in your picture

Ulf Edlund · Post by **Ulf Edlund** » 29 Nov 2007 2:51 pm

I did some service to a starter a while ago, and had the opportunity to test drive it in my studio.
Off course it feels a bit wobbly and less solid compared to a pro model but i was surprisingly fun to play and it sounded better than i ever expected it to.

For a beginner i would recommend a newer starter model, any brand, rather than a older guitar. I totally agree about aiming for minimum 3+4.

Uffe

Jeremy Threlfall · Post by **Jeremy Threlfall** » 29 Nov 2007 3:46 pm

I'm one of the 20% that made it through ..... and I did it on a starter. I would recommend them strongly - mainly BECAUSE THEY ARE NEW.

Its all well and good going out and getting a 'better' second hand pro model, but one thing a learner doesn't need is mechanical problems or 'issues' with a second hand guitar they are ill equipped to deal with.

I am glad I started on a Starter

Randal Smith · Post by **Randal Smith** » 29 Nov 2007 6:51 pm

I'm in a little different situation. I started playing steel about 1972, on an Emmons student model. I traded around a lot. I've owned MSA, Sho-Bud, Dekley, just to name a few. I sold my last one in '97 to pay for a Taylor acoustic.

Earlier this year, I finally gave in and bought something just to get back into playing steel. That something was a Starter, bought from Bobbe Seymour.

Does it have it's flaws? Sure. The LKR (lowering the E's) is very stiff with long travel. I had to modify the LKL in order to be able to reach it. When I'm under the guitar, my legs almost feel like they're folded back under me.

Does it have it's good points? Sure. It's light. It seems to stay in tune well, in spite of the cheap tuners. New, it comes with a very good DVD which will get you started quite nicely. The pedal and knee action is not bad, with the above noted exception. The tone is surprisingly good for something of this price. It sustains well. And don't forget, it's cheap.

Would I recommend it to a beginner? Absolutely.

Would I buy another one? No. I'm not a beginner and I find it very limiting. I will go the pro route as soon as my budget allows. My craving for a Rittenberry has been well documented on this forum.

My advice? Buy a Starter. Save your money, and move up when you can. Play out with a band as much as possible. Even when you're just starting, playing live will improve your playing like nothing else.

Good luck.

Gary Shepherd · Post by **Gary Shepherd** » 29 Nov 2007 8:57 pm

Go for the starter. They're great little guitars for the money. Buy one for $500. Sell it for $500 when you're done with it - one way or the other. Simple.

Greg Wisecup · Post by **Greg Wisecup** » 30 Nov 2007 10:05 am

In the early 80's After playing bass and drums for years I bought a Maverick. I had know idea what I was doing and shortly thereafter I was playing out. Finally 6 nights a week. I'm sure I sucked. Last year I gave in to temptation and bought a Carter Starter. I have learned so much more in a very short time than I did playing the Maverick for years. I wish I had the Carter then. I may have never stopped. Just got the NV 112 The Carter sounds AWSOME. No regrets. It's the best chance for learning for the money. Good Luck

Jeff Harbour · Post by **Jeff Harbour** » 1 Dec 2007 7:33 am

I'll always be a strong supporter of the Starter.
The bottom line is: If you want a BRAND NEW guitar, want to learn it RIGHT NOW, and have to buy it on credit (as I did years ago)... there's probably no better deal. And, to me learning it RIGHT NOW was the biggest factor.
I did upgrade eventually, but it was about 90% due to a desire to play C6. (I also kept the Starter).
So, if money and timing are a factor, it's for you.
If you have a little more to spend (or time to save up), then take a trip to Bobbe Seymour's store. You can then compare the Starter to the other, slightly higher-priced guitars and maybe come up with one that suits you better (or maybe see that the Starter IS the one for you).

Jeff

Gary Shepherd · Post by **Gary Shepherd** » 1 Dec 2007 10:27 am

I think Jeff nailed it.

Gavin Dunn · Post by **Gavin Dunn** » 3 Dec 2007 3:23 pm

Take a look at the undercarrige of the Jackson "Blackjack", and compare it to the Starter.
Even at a few hundred dollars more, it's quite clear that there's no contest, in favor of the Jackson.
Start with the best you can; plus unloading a high demand guitar like the Blackjack will be alot easier if you give up.

Steve Norman · Post by **Steve Norman** » 3 Dec 2007 10:23 pm

you guys who are getting starters,,just hold on to them as they make great backups when you upgrade. I really wish I still had mine.

Paul Redmond · Post by **Paul Redmond** » 4 Dec 2007 3:13 am

Jim Cohen - You cut me to the quick!! Please check out the post "Hot Rod Maverick". Sure they only came with one KL from the factory, but.......!!! I've played gigs with this thing over the past two months and even recorded a demo with it last week!!!
Seriously, if you can pick up a good used guitar that has at least your standard 3 FP's and at least 3, preferably 4, KL's, that's your best bet. I've modified two Starters recently to make two of the four KL's more workable. Metal-against-metal doesn't work even with a lot of grease. I had to install nylon wear pads to reduce the friction. Also you can't buy additional parts for a Starter as Carter won't sell them to you. That doesn't bother me because I simply make what I need, but if you don't have any machines on which to make this stuff, you're sunk. The best student model on the planet IMO was the BMI student model with 3 and 2 and a hardshell case to boot. They're probably pretty scarce now, but Zane sold a lot of them and they use most of the parts that the pro model used. AND those parts are still available from BMI to this day. The guitar is virtually bulletproof and can easily be added onto if additional KL's or FP's were req'd. That guitar will last at least 100 years!!!
PRR

Joe Rouse · Post by **Joe Rouse** » 4 Dec 2007 3:14 am

As a veteran psg player for all of 9-10 months I have to add my 7 cents worth.
I looked before I leaped and read all I could about entry level guitars and decided on a Carter Starter. I'm still happy with it and plan to keep it but am now looking at buying a professional psg. My psg teacher said it was time to upgrade and so I am looking for a wise purchase. I've noticed on the Starter the LKR has a great deal of travel and how light it is, but I have enjoyed hour upon hour learning on the mystical machine. I played an MSA D-10 last week for just long enough to Know there is a big difference in entry level psg to a pro psg, but I will hang onto my Carter because it doesn't eat and I don't want my main psg in the shop and have a psg to play.
Good luck on your choice, the information you get on this forum is the best. Thes people know what they are saying and I don't know of any of them who have not tried to help when asked.

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