Push Pull brands....

A. J. Schobert · Post by **A. J. Schobert** » 26 Oct 2007 8:22 am

I was wondering what brands used to build a "push-pulls"?

I only know of Emmons and Zumsteel, I saw the Zum some time ago for sale on the forum.

Extra points for pics!

Just curious
AJ

Allan Thompson · Post by **Allan Thompson** » 26 Oct 2007 8:44 am

Promat are still building them.

A. J. Schobert · Post by **A. J. Schobert** » 26 Oct 2007 8:50 am

Yes Promat is one.

Benton Allen · Post by **Benton Allen** » 26 Oct 2007 3:34 pm

I believe BMI still builds a Push/Pull model, but I wasn't aware that Bruce ever built a Push/Pull Zum. Oh well, I learn something new every day!!

Cheers!
Benton

Benton Allen · Post by **Benton Allen** » 26 Oct 2007 3:41 pm

I forgot!

Emmons will still build you one.
See their web site for info.

Benton

Bryant Aycock · Post by **Bryant Aycock** » 27 Oct 2007 1:10 am

Hello Guys,
I guess now is a good time for me to jump in. I am a new member from Pikeville, N. C. I chose thes place because there seems to be a lot of interest in push-pull guitars. I play a Cherokee D10, 8+5, Jimmy Day. These guitars were built in Kinston, N.C. by Clyde Mattocks. I'm not sure how many were built. I got mine in 1973. I still play it and it fits like a glove. I am sorta looking for a new guitar, but for now I'll "dance with the one that brung me". I enjoy the Forum and hope to send some pictures when I figure out how.
Thanks,
Bryant Aycock

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 27 Oct 2007 7:06 am

Benton,
A. J. might be referring to the new "hybrid" guitar that Bruce is building. It is sort of a cross between a 100% p/p and an all pull.

A. J. Schobert · Post by **A. J. Schobert** » 27 Oct 2007 8:12 am

Erv no I am not talking about a hybrid, I can't find the link but some time ago for sale in the forum, there was a Zum push-pull and I think it was from the late '70. you can see a pick from its underside.

A. J. Schobert · Post by **A. J. Schobert** » 27 Oct 2007 8:19 am

Http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopi ... +push+pull

Well I tried to post the link its under Vintage Zum and was for sale in the " for sale " section. I don't know why it didn't work, oh well.

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 22 Nov 2007 1:48 pm

as far as I know only manufacturer of push pull guitars in the world today is Promat.ZUM has a hybrid changer not p/p, and Emmons uses old parts they can find around the shop to put together a p/p guitar, and I don`t know if they even have any more parts left. And Promat has a better tone anyway.Me and Nick Reed have compared new Promat to `66 Emmons bolt on neck to neck and Promat was a clear winner, after playing a Promat for 2 minutes Nick looked at me and said "does Bobbe knows about this guitar"....when I took guitar to Bobbe he asked me "how does he (Papic) do it?"...I said I have no clue.Promat builds about 3-4 guitars per year,they are all build by hand and by old school builder who does not wont to speed up his production because he is affraid that he would lost a quality.Sometimes we can still find some people who do things right and because they love what they do and one of those is Mr.Papic.

Db

Gary Shepherd · Post by **Gary Shepherd** » 24 Nov 2007 7:34 pm

What's this hybrid Zum talk about?

A. J. Schobert · Post by **A. J. Schobert** » 24 Nov 2007 8:23 pm

Gary the hybrid zum is not a push pull, honestly I don't know alot about it, however not to long ago there was a "push-pull" zum for sale on the forum, and yes there was a pic of its underside and there is no doubt, it is from the late 70's, maybe a prototype? I think I used vintage zum as a search. I pulled it up once but can't now.

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 25 Nov 2007 6:28 am

could other manufacturers build a push pull today?you bet they could...if they wanted to that is.The problem with a push pull is very simple,it is too expencive to make for a builder,there is much more profit in all pull guitars than a push pull.Where Mr.Papic is ahead of the other guys is the fact that he does not depend on that work financially,it is not his primary source of income, he does not use that to pay bills or rent,money he makes building guitars he invests back into his guitars,tools,parts,wood,research,itd.Same with players who are playing on the weekends just to help a bit their budget,they don`t do it to make huge profit.Mr.Papic can aford to build a brand spanking new Promat push pull guitar because he does not need the money he makes making his guitars to survive,he does not depend on it.He makes guitars because of his love for a pedal steel guitar and everything about it and I guarantee you that biggest reward to Mr.Papic is when people call or email with thank you notes saying how happy they are with the guitar he made for them.Mr.Papic is way more concerned about player enjoing his guitar than how much profit he is going to have on it.Other guys don`t wont to mess with push pull,it is too expencive to make and there is not enough customers to justify needed investment anyway.I would think that on every 20-30 all pull players comes 1 push pull player (I may be very well wrong here but it`s not really that important).So,there is really no money in building a push pull guitar and that is why nobody does it.It is much easier to use stamped parts.Every time I look at my guitar I am amazed what a great instrument that is,I love my guitar,you can almost feel a heart beat how much love is put in building it.Guys like Fessenden,Mullen or specially Carter make amazing guitars,they are 21. century Corvettes of the steel guitars but if you want to hear that roar of the engine or have a feel of a 1960`s Corvette you get a Promat.

this is where that 30 year old maple for your guitar is coming from,
National Park Fruska Gora
Db

Paul Norman (RIP) · Post by **Paul Norman (RIP)** » 25 Nov 2007 11:18 am

A. J., I read on here where Zum did build a push-
pull years ago. Not the hybrid.
Up until then I thgt Emmons was the only one until
that and then the Promat.
I don/t know if Clyde's Cherokee was a push/pull.

Jump in here CLYDE.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 26 Nov 2007 6:51 am

This NEW push/pull has 30 year old maple in it also:

Charles Curtis · Post by **Charles Curtis** » 26 Nov 2007 2:15 pm

Erv, I really like that guitar; you think maybe...naw, I guess not.

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 26 Nov 2007 2:40 pm

Eat you heart out!

Benton Allen · Post by **Benton Allen** » 26 Nov 2007 4:51 pm

Bee ute ti ful!!!!!!

A. J. Schobert · Post by **A. J. Schobert** » 26 Nov 2007 5:40 pm

American steel.

Bobby Bowman · Post by **Bobby Bowman** » 26 Nov 2007 11:46 pm

I built and sold the B push pull guitars for about two years. I got tired of not making hardly any profit. Out of the 17 or 18 guitars I built I sold all but one D-10. I kept that one for myself (the original "Bugger Red") and played it for about 6 or 7 years without a minutes trouble. A whole lot of people said it was the best sounding guitar they had ever heard. I had promised a fellow that wanted it so bad, that if I ever did sell it, it would be his. As far as I know, he still has it.

Lee Baucum · Post by **Lee Baucum** » 27 Nov 2007 5:38 am

Erv - You're just asking for trouble...

Erv Niehaus · Post by **Erv Niehaus** » 27 Nov 2007 6:57 am

This isn't a new p/p but it is the one I have spent the most time on restoring it to its present glory.

New p/p's are nice but there is something about these old axes.

Oh what stories they could tell!

Jim Pitman · Post by **Jim Pitman** » 27 Nov 2007 8:27 am

I had a P/P S12 Emmons - couldn't get all of my copedent on it and had some difficulty tuning what I could get - reaching gunder the cab to spin collars etc. Loved the tone though.

Is it fair to say a down side of P/P is it can't be applied easily to 12U copedent?

Is a single 12 universal an option from Promat?

Damir Besic · Post by **Damir Besic** » 27 Nov 2007 4:33 pm

Jim,as far as I knowPromat can be ordered as S-12 , SD-12 or D-12 , but I also know that before they accept your order, they will talk to you to make sure that changes you want are possible.Promat will not take your order if they think that guitar wont perform 100% correct with your changes.As far as 30 year old maple goes let me explain,Promat uses maple that was cut and then hand picked and set on the side to naturaly dry.that maple is now used by mr.Papic, after has been naturaly dried for 30 years.so,there is no telling how old that maple actually is.if not properly dried wood will turn greenish color.Db

A. J. Schobert · Post by **A. J. Schobert** » 28 Nov 2007 5:20 am

Damir why isn't a case added into the price? To me it seems a 5 grand guitar the case would be included.

They do seem to be very nice guitars.

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