Sho Bud...WTF?

[John Billings]

Nooooo! You can fix it! Do what I suggest! The parts are right!
Shobud never threw anything away! They made them work. And you can make them work!

[mike nolan]

Those plates are factory stock on the Pro era guitars.... double/single double/double changers. I have had more than one of 'em apart. Sometimes, even if you are using the same parts, there will be some misalignment when you reassemble the guitar. In one instance, I had to attach the plate to the mounting blocks,leaving the screws that mount the blocks to the body very loose, then tighten the screws to the body. It worked great, and I suppose that it was the way it came from the factory.


This is the lovely, shiny, Coop part that I put on my early Pro era S-10.... I had to do some fiddling with it to get it aligned correctly. The changer in this particular guitar was mounted very slightly out of square... so I had to do some pluging and redrilling to get everything just right. Plays great now.

[Eric West]

Well I stand corrected, but my PIII which is not at my house doesn't have them nor did my Professional.

The laws of physics are not just good ideas, they're "The Law." That plate isn't wide enough.

Also if you "move it over" you'll be pulling it out from under the other screw, AND skewing the springs.

From looking at the other pix in the other thread it sure looks like somebody put a bunch of mutt parts in it.

If you have long enough I can go get my PIII from Monty Moss and take some pix of it.

I'm embarrassed that in all the undercarriages I've seen I don't remember any slotted lever holders.

The one on Coop's rig looks decidedly different.



Gotta run.



EJL

[Tony Glassman]

new pix: after changer popped off of mounts.

note the misalignment raise portions of fingers of #5 and #6

[Eric West]

Some of the slots look wider and one of the springs looks decidedly skewed. I know my PIII finger actuator levers are not rubbing together without a slotted guide.

I wish to heck I had my PIII here.

Also I must note that the rods look a lot thicker, like the old Professionals.

Strange duck, like many Sho~Buds. I note the changer levers look aftermaket and the square shafts, I think I've seen before. Odd though.

The Pro IIIs alone had many differences. Some had narrow pedals and I'm sure there were other things.

ProII was a "transition", and there were even more things they tried.

One of the reasons I got mine for 600$ brand new. The company that took over sold everything in the "warehouse" for less than 600$ in 76 or so. I shoulda bought a dozen of them.

Many things had differences within a "model". Ford Granada's had a different rear end setup for every year. 8 inch straight drop ins, with and without counterweight balancers, 9 inch with and without, and spicer type. Just to note that things that are the same "model" differ in other areas besides PSGs.

Gotta run. Long day in the studio.

We'll get it worked out.



EJL

[Larry Robbins]

As you can see ( I hope) I have this same thing on my ProIII C6 neck.
The guitar is about a 79/80 with an upgraded 3 & 2 changer.
As you can also see the plate on the E9 changer just barley makes it as well. Someone put the washer on the C6 side as a repair before I owned the Guitar. So far I have never had any problems with it. Maybe John Billings is correct in that many parts were "made to work".Dont know , but
I have seen this more than once.

Edited to say:
Please pardon the smoke stains...this one has seen more than a few bars!

[John Billings]

"many parts were "made to work".
Not only that, but drilling jigs weren't always used, specially for simple non-critical holes, like the holes for wood screws used to fasten the part to the cabinet. They'd just drill a hole about here, and another one about there. If Tony takes those 4 parts off, and puts them side-by-side, I think he'll find they are different, and all he has to do is match the right parts to the right places, and those spring-plates will fit.

[Jon Light (deceased)]

I'd sure love to know what's up with the red X's. Larry's got them just like Tony has.

[Larry Robbins]

Jon,
You know , I just noticed that. I had seen them on mine before but never gave it much thought. Now that you mentioned it....I se that they ARE on Tony's as well! Hmmmmmmmmmm...

[mike nolan]

"many parts were "made to work".
Not only that, but drilling jigs weren't always used, specially for simple non-critical holes, like the holes for wood screws used to fasten the part to the cabinet. They'd just drill a hole about here, and another one about there. If Tony takes those 4 parts off, and puts them side-by-side, I think he'll find they are different, and all he has to do is match the right parts to the right places, and those spring-plates will fit.

The unique nature of the Sho~Buds is what makes them so fabulous .... each one an individual work of art.

[Eric West]

I think i might have suggeted that if the only thing that's wrong is that the screw misses the slot that a washer fitting the screw tightly might cover the piece and hold it using green loctite sleeve locker to make it stay solid. Green Loctite "sleeve locker" is like liquid braze. I'd be careful about three things. One: getting ANY green loctite on the threads. Two: stripping out the screw hole from cranking it too tight, and of course Three: brazing on galvanized metal. The smoke won't get you high.

That undercarraige looks pretty alien, with the hex rods, multi-hole bell cranks, and thick, hooked rods.

I know my PIII looked like a slotted affir might have kept things more straight, but I never had a problem with things binding.

I'd have used brass, but then I wasn't there..



You'll get it nailed down T.



EJL

[James Morehead]

It appears you have way too much slop in your 5th and 6th finger joints, caused by the rivet wearing out, thus allowing the parts of the fingers to fall out of position. You would need to pull down that changer and tighten those rivets if they are not too far gone, if that's actually the case. Hard to see enough in the pictures.

[Tony Glassman]

I don't think that "wear" is the case....this is a really low mileage guitar. Everything else is pristine. Even the pedals have no wear marks on them.

[James Morehead]

I do know those two fingers are the "high mileage" fingers on the E9th neck, and they should not have a gap in them like that, but who knows off of pictures?

[John Billings]

James, if Tony would just do what I've been advising, he'd have his guitar fixed in no time. I'm sure of it! I build modern guitars guitars every day. You can take a part off any guitar, and put it on another. That just is not true of Shobuds. Somebody mixed up those parts. Simple as that!

[James Morehead]

Yeah John, your right on about the inconsistancy of Shobud parts. Tony will explore ALL the ideas offered here, and get his problem dialed in. Bad thing for all of us on this thread, is not being able to see the guitar in person----makes it hard to zero in on the issues going on and the solutions. Patience.

[James Morehead]

John Coop asked me to put these pics up, demonstrating a typical gliche common in this era of shobud, as he sees this problem in Tony's guitar.

Notice that the changer cutout of this pro III is wider than the guide plate shobud was using, causing misalignment of the "L" brackets and guide plate, and in the end, causing a host of other related problems. You can see what John had to do was to align the redesigned "L" brackets correctly, and make a new designed guide plate, to fit the changer, and cause proper finger alignment.

The two lowest pics demonstrate the inconsistant original parts, and the Coop designed parts.

So, here we all are, 30 some years after the fact, trying to correct the problems that should have been solved at the factory in the first place. Notice the correction in John's parts over the original parts.

[Tony Glassman]

I do know those two fingers are the "high mileage" fingers on the E9th neck, and they should not have a gap in them like that, but who knows off of pictures?

James, I agree that's exactly what logic would dictate, but this misalignment was not present until the changer sprung off the mounting block screw yesterday.....Before that, the fingers were normally aligned....Take a look at the picture of the same changer taken the day of the initial posting of this thread, before the changer "popped" off ......When that occurred, I heard a clunk and that is when the fingers went out of alignment.

I do agree with you, those 2 fingers are misaligned and the changer needs to be pulled. I've hesitated to do so, until I speak with the seller (who is willing to refund my $$). He may wish to have his own tech or have someone of repute (like Ricky Davis) deal with it.

[James Morehead]

Well Tony, You might consider a little chat with Ricky and or John Coop. You would cut through the chase pretty quick. That's what I'd recommend.

[David Doggett]

The unique nature of the Sho~Buds is what makes them so fabulous .... each one an individual work of art.

...or in some cases, a real piece of work.

[Tony Glassman]

James, if Tony would just do what I've been advising, he'd have his guitar fixed in no time. I'm sure of it! I build modern guitars guitars every day. You can take a part off any guitar, and put it on another. That just is not true of Shobuds. Somebody mixed up those parts. Simple as that!

John you may be entirely correct, although the distance between the centers of the mounting screws on both changers are are fairly similar: C6th=4 1/4" E9th=4 3/64".

To swap those parts out, I'd have to de-rod the entire guitar and pull both changers. I haven't done that as the guitar may be going back to the seller. He might prefer his own tech or a pro to check it out first.

I'd like to thank James,John,Eric and everyone who has chimed in on this dilemma. There is an incredible wealth of knowledge (and obsession) on this forum.

[James Morehead]

It's our way of giving back what this great forum has helped each of us. Another thanx to bob!

[John Coop]

The correct spacing center to center on the mounting holes for the guide plates should be 4 inches. They were'nt even close on this one! Why does that not surprise me?

[Tony Glassman]

Happy ending: Jeff Surratt is going to do the repair work, which is being subsidized by the seller. So...all's well, that ends well.

I'll post after-repair pix.........