Fully Pro or Weekend Warrior. What is best in the long term?

[Herb Steiner]

Re: Plan B
Here's the Brutal Truth. Live music is for the most part not heavily valued by society in general, nor recognized as essential. Rather than being a necessity as a given, it's a luxury, and more and more becoming less and less of one as society is offered increasing varied choices for spending their leisure hours. So while live music may never go by the wayside, the opportunities for the numbers of live musicians are getting fewer and fewer. This has been attested to by many here and refuted by none.

Why do plumbers make more money per capita than musicians? Because society needs more plumbers. And doctors, lawyers, advertising executives, electricians, salesmen, etc. Retail sales clerks... low men on the income totem pole... make more than most musicians, not because it's a more demanding skill, but because society needs sales clerks more than steel pickers. Hell, garbagemen make more dough than most musicians!

Sure, there are numerically lots of successful musicians, if one uses money acquisition as the scorecard. But on a per capita basis, the number is relatively very few.

Music is fun to do, and the rewards can be great without being a dollar-harvesting occupation. Just so long as you know the odds, you can pay your money and take your chances. Mama may have, and papa may have, but God bless the child that's got his own.

[Carroll Hale]

most of us pickers.....pro or not....are not in this for the $$$$$$$, or most of us would be in the poor house..........definitely a job for the sheer enjoyment of hearing the music...or watching the response of a crowd....at any live gigs we get the chance to play.......this is surely about the fun and comaraderie of playing and meeting new and old friends ....just pickin and grinnin....2 of lifes great pleasures....

[Shorty Smith]

I been a musician since I was 10 but joined the Army in 1949, served 21 years and played partime music throughout my Army Career. For 10 years I played music in Army Special Service and my own band in Germany. After retirement from the Military, I had a Civil Service job for 22 years, played music weekends and retired in 1995. After retirement, I was called on to play Steel for a local Country Band and have played every weekend, Friday and Saturday since 1995. 7 years at the same club and never having to move my equipment except to change strings and maintenance. I just turned 75 this years and hope to continue playing my Steel till I'm 80 at least, just enjoying the music.

[Terry Wood]

Hi Ken,

Well, when younger I worked a variety of jobs, and after a short while in school decided to drop out of college and went on the road at about age 23. Some of the people I worked with and for were great and some were real con artists. Well, I was naive enough to believe some of the con artists.

After several real disappointments, and weighing it all up, I decided to go back to college and become a teacher. I worked days and went nights to college. After a few years I became a visual arts teacher, and I am also a painter myself. Now, I have two Masters degrees, a solid teaching job, still play and record lots of music and I choose the music jobs that I desire to play. More importantly, I have a family and most of them are really into art and music

Ken, I have much more fun with music now and as my friend the later Julian THarpe said once regarding steel playing, "I wear my own kind of hat!"

I wouldn't want to go back through all the early years of my musical career. I adise my children to play music and create art but go for a better education and job. THen they can do as they please with music.

I believe if most of the professionals were honest that they would admit the same thing, that they would not recommend a life of "Smoke and Mirrors." There are alot of smoke and mirrors in the music business/industry.

Hope this helps in someway.

Thanks and may GOD bless!

Terry Wood

[Cal Sharp]

After 20 years on the road with numerous Nashville artists I decided I'd been on enough buses and stayed in enough hotels (I even turned down gigs with the Flying Burrito Bros. & Johnny Paycheck) and went back to school part-time to update my graphic design skills (had a bachelor's degree from 1972 just in case the steel guitar thing didn't work out) and landed a day gig doing same. Now I'm doing IT work and web design and playing locally 10-15 nights a month. So far it's worked out OK.

[Ken Byng]

I did a session with Phil Everly in 1982, and I still have a photo of us with him holding my Gibson J-200. I can recall him saying - "Some guys have to earn their living with a shovel - we're pretty lucky, I guess."

I tend to agree with him.

RR

Roger
There are some events in one's life that are priceless. I had some of these when I was a full time pro, and you have given a great example above.

The only thing that many musicians do regret is maybe hanging on too long to the full time pro mantle when they think that the 'big gig' is always just around the corner. Some of my friends who continue to live solely on their musical income are not very well off at all, and most live week to week.

The other aspect is of relationships. I wrecked a good marriage by being on the road too long and I suspect that quite a few others have done the same. Balancing out a successful maried life with road work is very difficult if not impossible. Since becoming a weekend warrior in the mid 80's my second wife comes to all my gigs and loves it. I play with guys who in the main are younger than me, and their enthusiasm rubs off on us veteran players.

[Jim Cohen]

I never went 'pro' because I was afraid I'd end up either looking like, or feeling like, Cal Sharp's avatar.

[Herb Steiner]

Three steel guitar giants and heroes of mine died in abject poverty. Jimmy Day, Joaquin Murphey, and Vance Terry.

Vance's example is particularly depressing, since he got an education, became successful in banking with all the accoutrements of a business executive. Then drug addiction entered his life and he ultimately lost everything... house, family, and more than most of us will ever achieve in our lives... only to die alone in a cheap hotel.

[Roger Rettig]

Herb puts it succinctly - it's all about demand. The truth is that it wouldn't matter to the world at large if I never played another note. It's even adder to reflect that it probably wouldn't matter if none of us ever played another note.

I wonder how much of my so-called perseverance was my reluctance to admit that maybe I wasn't quite good enough, and a meagre living was all I ever deserved? Just a thought...

Yes, Ken! A magic moment indeed, and almost as big for me as the day Lonnie Donegan called me to play some gigs. Lonnie was the force that sidetracked me from my school-work and immersed me for ever in music; Don and Phil Everly provided the soundtrack for my adolescence. I wonder how I would have reacted if, at thirteen years old, I'd have known that Donegan - My Hero, if I ever had one - would one day be asking me to play in his group!!!

This doesn't make me special - the same is true of others - but it means a lot to me and, if I'd pursued that career in commercial art, it would never have happened.

RR

[Dave Mudgett]

No matter what they do, everybody needs a 'Plan B.'

Ha! Music was my "Plan B".

For me, it was important to have something besides music to do. There were times when I got very impatient with "the life" when I was doing it heavily.

But I do agree that a very high level of intensity is required to do anything in arts or other intellectual areas seriously. I've fought that all my "career" - both in math/science/engineering and music. It definitely has required me to burn the candle at both ends at times, and there are times when I think "maybe I shoulda just completely focused on one thing." But I still think I did the right thing for me. But that might not work for someone else.

I also know about great musicians and artists going down from "the life". Plenty of object examples out there for me, probably influenced me at various times.

[Dick Wood]

The average waitress makes more per night than a musician does and you can take that to the bank or at least they can.

Edit: Oh Yeah, They also don't own in the neighborhood of $5,000 in equipment (musical anyway) and they don't load-in or load-out.

[Terry Wood]

Dick Wood,

Has it right, I know waitresses that make over a $100 to $200 a night in some local restaurants and that's certainly much more than most of the musicians I know.

Here's a good example of a Saturday night playing in my home area. I played last Saturday night with a really great Country Band, and I spent $20 gas for my wife's car, $11.75 on food and they paid me $30 for the 3 1/2 hours playing. However, the music was great and so were all the players. The food was really great too. The people were very friendly, so I can live with that.

I might add that teachers don't make nearly as much as most professions. However, we do it all for the love of it.

Terry Wood

[Dave Mudgett]

Yeah - I get it about low musical pay scales. I have come to the conclusion there is a reasonably strong inverse correlation / relationship between the artistic quality of the gig vs. the pay scale, at least at the "working stiff" level of the music biz. I suppose it depends on what you like and want to do, but that's what I see a lot.

On the teaching profession - I think salaries are quite a bit higher than they used to be, even using inflation-adjusted dollars. Most teachers aren't getting rich, but teaching can have its moments, especially in areas where there is strong industry competition for qualified people. Here's a chart with the current median higher ed faculty salaries by field, and a lot of these are 9-month contracts. There's quite a bit of variation - expensive markets or well-known schools can go quite a bit higher, balanced out by less well-known schools in less expensive markets. Note that areas like performing arts and music aren't so far behind even the "hard sciences", but not as high as areas like Law, Engineering, Business, and Computer/Info Sciences.

Ahh... here's the link:
http://www.higheredjobs.com/salary/sala ... SurveyID=6

[Chris Schlotzhauer]

I certainly have dealt with this my whole career. I have always maintained a "day job", while gigging. I was fortunate to learn a trade (electrician) at an early age, and smart enough (lucky) to learn the business side of electrical contracting. Now, I only estimate. So it's on computer and I can do work remotely.
Up until 17 years ago, I only played weekends, and kind of kept that on the hush-hush. Corporate people are day people and don't understand what we do at night. I was laid off at a big contractor in early 90's and I decided I was no longer going to hide my music ambitions to employers. In fact, I was going to play full time, but I found a friend who hired me and I work as much, or little as I wish. I still do that today and tour full time. The down side is, I basically work 7 days a week. I have little time to get things done.
I think steelers are type A personalities for the most part. They can't set still very long.
Just the few I know here in DFW like Ron Stafford, Danny Naccarado, Gary Carpenter, all are serious, professional musicians and are very busy businessmen.
Every member of our band, has never done anything else but play music, except me. They are acclimated to musician's pay. It would really be hard for me to go backward in pay at this time in my life.
I'll get some rest when I'm dead.

[Roger Rettig]

Well, it's certainly true about the waitresses, but anyone who goes into music full-time better have a love for it, or they're probably going to be disappointed.

I think this thread has established that, and the fact that most pro players are near the bottom of the food-chain. I suppose it would depend on the restaurant, but aren't waitresses somewhere near the top...?

RR

[Bo Legg]

"I truly believe that life is a raging river and we are all in our own boats and all we can do is try to keep the boat from overturning and washing away our belongings. We can paddle around obstacles, hit some miss some. We can grab hold of someone or something slip off or manage to hold on for a little while but in the end we all go over the falls.
Hey it’s your boat ride enjoy it." Bo Legg

[Ken Byng]

Not too many full timers posting on this thread. It would be nice to get a few more honest evaluations on how easy/difficult it is to make a decent living out of the music game. The perception that I had of pro steel players making a fortune in the States has been brought down to earth with a bump. Probably the top 2 or 3% do, and the rest are just getting by.

[James Pennebaker]

Herb's post raises a good point. Should a pro player be looking to have some qualification or skill in another profession should the full time pro job hit a snag. It makes sense to have some contingency in place just in case.

I would say it's a good idea if you can do it. I went on the road with Delbert McClinton in the late '70s when I was in my very early 20's. I wasn't a steel player then, that would come later. I always did guitar, violin and other instrument repair out of my house to supplement my income. When I hit my early 30's Delbert's career was not going so well, I had two kids and finding it hard to make ends meet. So I took a "day job" with a major guitar manufacturing company that happened to be located in my home town of Ft. Worth. Starting at the bottom I learned manufacturing, marketing, quality control, how to manage people and many other skills on that job and moved up the ladder pretty fast. I was traveling overseas quite a bit to guitar factories in Japan, Korea and even India after a year or so. I did that for 8 years and was doing well but the lure of the music business never left my blood. All during that time I never quit playing weekend gigs all over North TX but most of my musician friends had moved to Nashville and were doing well and encouraging me to do the same. In '93 at age 37, I moved my family to Nashville after getting a job offer from old TX buddy Lee Roy Parnell. He was having hits and radio success at the time. I toured and recorded with him up until '99 when radio (and his label) dropped him. (actually, I still play on his records to this day) Electric guitar and fiddle was my main bag but I was playing a good bit of steel by this time, as well as fiddle, mandolin, etc., doing occasional demo sessions and record dates. I stayed busy on the road with various other artist all through the years and wasn't necessarily looking to quit but I could see the handwriting was on the wall. I'm 51 now. Most of the guys I would find myself working with were younger than my own children. I was no longer a "pretty face" on the bandstand and certainly not young anymore. I was increasingly finding myself no longer enjoying the music or most of what passes for "Nashville" country music anymore. At the end of last year I got a call from some old friends who are now working for Fender offering me a "day job" in Artist Relations. I could stay in Nashville, have a steady income and health insurance. Man, I jumped on it. No more tour busses for me. I thank God I'd had prior experience in the MI industry. I'm still getting to play the occasional session and play around town some when I want to. The best part is being able to say "no." I don't have to play somebody else's music that I don't particularly care for to pay the bills.

Didn't mean to ramble on and tell my whole life's story but I would say if you have a skill or something to fall back on you'll likely reach the point where you'll probably need or want to use it. Unless of course you have a RICH wife or girlfriend. Ha ha!

JP

[Terry Wood]

Something else I'd like to recommend and share with this thread. Everyone reading this, if you haven't read the books titled "Settin' the Woods on Fire," the biographies of Steel Guitar Hall of Famers, Don Helms and Jerry Byrd's musical biography titled "It Was A Trip On The Wings of Music," I recommend them now. You will gain insight into the music and steel guitar world and read of their experiences and lives as musicians. Don and Jerry shared a wealth of insight and enlightenment.

Next, life is alot about choices, well I made some good ones and few bad ones. I guess GOD gave me enough sense or rather it was HIS grace to open my eyes to alot. Now, I am thankful that I'm still alive today. I knew several who didn't even survive and make it.

Again hope this might help some. GOD bless!

Terry Wood

[ebb]

i think randy beavers has raised the bar for ww!

[Gerard Ventura]

....I can't help wondering whether, by dividing his time and concentration, he might just be shooting himself in the foot and actually reducing his chances for success in music, thereby creating the self-fulfilling prophecy that he will need his Plan B. It's a dilemma right now in our household. Interested in others' views on this...

Tom Petty has said, re career advice: "If you can do anything else for a living besides music, do it. If you can't bear doing anything besides music, now we're talking."

[Cal Sharp]

The music industry sucks...

Wait, let me start over: The music industry sucks young, ingenuous road musicians into its ravenous maw, uses them for sustenance and drains them of creativity and ambition and regurgitates them to the detritus heap 20 years later, leaving them with a bunch of bad habits, bereft of a pension, 401K, stock options, insurance, retirement and benefits. If all you do is pick, then learning some other aspect of the music business (and there are many) is the only Way To Survive, unless you're one of the very, very few who can make a living in the studio.

So, long term? Plan on an alternative career at some point before it's too late, and keep on pickin' as a fun part-time job.

[Herb Steiner]

Cal, you couldn't have said it any better or more succinctly, and your use of the language is nothing short of eloquent, IMHO.

[Jim Cohen]

... and he obviously speaks from experience, judging from his avatar.

[Cal Sharp]

Thanks, Herb. Succinct was what I was striving for.
Jim, just number 2 in a series of Halloween avatars.