Keyless Tuner(s)

Robert Harper · Post by **Robert Harper** » 9 Oct 2007 10:37 pm

Please someone post a picture of a keyless tuner for those of us that havent seen one. How do ypu tune it without a key? It must be tuned somehow. What is the advantage?

Larry Lorows · Post by **Larry Lorows** » 9 Oct 2007 11:59 pm

Hi Robert, I have a Williams U12 string keyless and I really like it. The advantage is it's shorter and lighter to carry aound. It's quicker to change strings and seldom breaks a string. Each string is attached to a small block of metal that has a threaded hole in the side. There is a small screw going through the hole and when it is turned in it brings the block along with the string out to put more tension on the string.You turn the screw out to release the tension, thus bringing the pitch of the string lower.

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 10 Oct 2007 1:46 am

Check out some of the manufacturers that make keyless guitars web sites such as GFI, Williams and Excel. Links to those sites are on the forum Links section.

Robert Harper · Post by **Robert Harper** » 10 Oct 2007 2:28 am

Its more enjoyable to talk to folks on the forum than to look at commercial sites, but thanks

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 10 Oct 2007 4:26 am

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 10 Oct 2007 4:33 am

And :-

Jerry Erickson · Post by **Jerry Erickson** » 10 Oct 2007 5:19 am

Here's a link to GFI:

http://www.gfimusicalproducts.com/Pages ... System.htm

Danny James · Post by **Danny James** » 10 Oct 2007 6:59 am

Baz,

What is holding/locking the string in your keyless tuner?

Sonny Jenkins · Post by **Sonny Jenkins** » 10 Oct 2007 7:29 am

It don't get any simpler than this,,,
Can't get the pic to upload,,,,try this link
http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=118046

Danny James · Post by **Danny James** » 10 Oct 2007 7:54 am

I didn't ask the question right.

What I was wanting to know is what locks the string in Baz's keyless tuner, not on the bridge end.
Sorry!

Thanks,
Danny

Sonny Jenkins · Post by **Sonny Jenkins** » 10 Oct 2007 8:04 am

In the pic I'm showing the bridge end,,,AND the keyless tuner. The machine screws on top of each finger is shown tightened down on the string, holding it in place,,,the longer machine screws going through the finger is used to very precisely bring the string to pitch,,,,here are 2 more pics of similar tuners I built

Danny James · Post by **Danny James** » 10 Oct 2007 8:38 am

Sonny,

I'm sure your keyless tuner is a fine design and works as it should. If I was going to build one, and I may, it would most likely be similar to yours.

However I was curious as to how Baz's Fender keyless tuner locked the strings on that particular tuner.

Sonny Jenkins · Post by **Sonny Jenkins** » 10 Oct 2007 9:05 am

,,,oooops,,,sorry Danny. Yes, I'd like to know that also,,,???

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 10 Oct 2007 10:24 am

On the Bennett the strings are locked into position by the counterforce of the unit itself i.e. NO screws just push the string through the slot pull from underneath and start tuning, the lever action of the finger locks the string, is it NOT clear from the pictures ?

The Fender has small screws that the string wraps around but it's not as good as the Bennett design.

The manual on page 5 shows how PS-210 Manual

Danny James · Post by **Danny James** » 10 Oct 2007 11:28 am

"Is it NOT clear from the pictures?" --- Well to me at first it wasn't.

Now that you have explained the mechanism it is.

By the way I have listened to about everything I could where you were playing. I really like your music and style.

Thanks Baz!

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 10 Oct 2007 11:36 am

Thanks Danny, I've had these keyless guitars for so long now, well at least the BENNETT that I'd taken it for granted that the system's design was known. Ron Bennett has patented his keyless design, the finger is mounted on a common axle and the two parts of the finger are pivoted, closing in on the string as it tightens.
I'm considering getting Ron to make me one for one neck of one my Emmons D-10s
This One

Longer clip, more tunes
Baz

Robert Harper · Post by **Robert Harper** » 10 Oct 2007 12:31 pm

Thanks, pun intended I got the picture now

Robert Leaman · Post by **Robert Leaman** » 10 Oct 2007 5:07 pm

Keyless or more correctly called gearless. Look at following website where a custom built Sierra is shown.

http://sierrasteels.com/
http://sierrasteels.com/pages/gearless.html

Robert Harper · Post by **Robert Harper** » 10 Oct 2007 5:22 pm

They are neat, good looking guitars.

Ross Shafer · Post by **Ross Shafer** » 10 Apr 2009 1:41 pm

Hi Baz,

I Love this Bennett tuner.Can you tell me what the set screws and loc nuts in the lower tuning arms are for?

Thanks,
Ross

Scott Howard · Post by **Scott Howard** » 10 Apr 2009 4:49 pm

basilh · Post by **basilh** » 11 Apr 2009 12:51 am

Ross Shafer wrote:Hi Baz,
.Can you tell me what the set screws and loc nuts in the lower tuning arms are for?

As soon as I can either get my old one back from my son or the newer "Old" one back from Ron Bennet I'll let you know, but as far as I recall they're the pre-sets for the various gauge adjustments. Once set they never need adjusting. (Unless you change Gauges)

Read the section "A Winter's Tale"
(Of course you're free to peruse the rest as well !!)

George Kimery · Post by **George Kimery** » 11 Apr 2009 1:58 am

My first guitar was a 68 Emmons PP with keys. My 2nd guitar, which I had for many years, was a Kline Universal Keyless. My current guitar is a 74 Emmons PP keyed guitar. So, I have owned both designs. I liked the keyless design a lot better for all the reasons that Bob mentioned, plus you can turn down to a note as well as up to a note. From a physics standpoint, it just doesn't get any simpler than gripping the end of the string and pullling, tuf of war style. Winding around a peg with a worm gear and having keys stick up that can get broken off is just not as simple and rock solid as a keyless design. As far as looks go, when I got the Kline, it looked odd for a while, like somebody had sawed off the end of it. After a while, I got used to it, then when I got another keyed guitar, it really looked odd to me to see all that wasted space with the keyhead. Having owned both types, I can live with either one. All things being equal, I would go for a keyless design in a New York minute. Bottom line, find a guitar that you like and don't let keyless vs. keyed sway you. Either one will get you from point A to point B.

richard burton · Post by **richard burton** » 11 Apr 2009 3:50 am

I don't consider a keyhead as wasted space, that's where I keep my pet squirrel

Paul Redmond · Post by **Paul Redmond** » 15 Apr 2009 11:43 pm

At long hard last someone has found a good use for all that wasted cabinet left of the nut on keyed guitars. I knew all along it was good for something. Y'all may want to tote along a small bag of kitty litter to gigs.
PRR

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Keyless guitars. I don't have a clue