fender dual showman question

[Steve Spitz]

Anyone know about the "TFL 5000" on the faceplate of the silverface DSR ? The one I`m looking at is a non-master, does that (TFL 5000) designation give a clue as to the year ? Any thoughts on this particular DSR ?
Thanks!!

[Robert Mayo]

TFL5000D = Domestic Fender Dual Showman Reverb
TFL5000X = Export Fender Dual Showman Reverb
TFL5005D = Domestic Fender Bandmaster Reverb
TFL5005X = Export Fender Bandmaster Reverb


TFL stands for Teflon as opposed to cloth wire shielding.

Year: 1968-1981

Model: Dual Showman Reverb

Model No:TFL 5000D

Circuit: AC568, AA768,

Config: Piggy-back

Control Panel: Silver forward facing w/ blue labels

Front Conrol Layout:
Normal: In, In, Bright Sw, Vol, Treb, Mid, Bass - Vibrato: In, In, Bright Sw, Vol, Treb, Mid, Bass, Speed, Intensity, Reverb - Master Vol (72-81) - Pilot Lamp

Rear Conrol Layout:
AC Outlet, Ground Sw, Fuse (2½A), Power Sw, Standby Sw, Speaker Jack, Ex. Speaker Jack, Vibrato Jack, Reverb Jack, Reverb Out, Reverb In

Knobs:
Black skirted w/ chrome center, numbered 1 - 10

Head:
13" x 26" x 9" (33 x 66 x 22.9 cm)

Head Hardware:
Black strap handles, ?" chassis straps, corner protectors

Cabinet:
Sealed, 45½" x 30" x 11½" (115.6 x 76.2 x 29.2 cm)

Cab Hardware:
3 Black strap handles, corner protectors, glides or casters (72-81)

Head/Cab Covering:
Black Tolex

Head/Cab Grille:
Blue sparkle grille cloth w/ aluminum frame (68-69), w/o aluminum frame (70-81)

Logo:
Grille mounted, raised, chrome & black script "Fender" w/ tail(68-75) or "Fender®" w/o tail (76-80) (head and cab)

Weight:
154 lbs. total (70 Kg)

Speakers/Load:
2 x 15"/4 ohms (8 ohms each in parallel)

Speaker Model:
JBL D-130F

Effects:
Tremolo, Reverb

Output:
68-76: 100 Watts
77-81: 135 Watts

Preamp:
Normal: 7025
Tremolo: 7025 and ½ 7025

Power:
4 x 6L6GC

Bias:
Fixed Bias

Rectifier:
Solid State

Phase Inverter:
12AT7 (long tailed)

Other:
Tremolo: 12AX7 (photoresistor)
Reverb Driver: 12AT7
Reverb Recovery: ½ 7025

Comments:
Late seventies circuit changes included a Line Out jack, hum balance pot, and a pull boost sw.

Now I personally took my Dual showman chassis out of the head cabinet and slid it into an older Twin loaded with old alnico Jensen speakers and made my own Dual showman combo amp ...killer.

[Robert Mayo]

There are several ways to date your amp, source date codes, pot codes ,tranny codes

My transformer has number 606904.so it is a 69.
also on the chassis ( you gotta pull it out) there will be dates by inspections.
your speakers if original will have source ate codes as well.
Of course the serial number should date it as well( located on back)

[Pete Burak]

Thanks for that info. I have a '71 DSR.
What does the "5000" stand for in TFL5000D?

[Steve Spitz]

Thanks guys.
Did either of you guys use it for steel? I'm thinking it could make a clean rig.

[Pete Burak]

Update: I just read that the 5000 in TFL5000D stands for the DuPont/3M Part Number for the grade-level of the Teflon coating, which has a melting temp of 163f.
It also said, jokingly, that the TFL stands for Too Freakin' Loud!

[Tony Prior]

68 thru 71 NO Master volume, although some were rated in this period at 100 watts, they are actually the exact same amps which initially were rated at 85 watts. It is suspected that the amp rating went to 100 watts with a higher AC input voltage to increase the output calculation.

The amp in question is a 70 or 71..with no aluminum drip edge, if it has the aluminum edge around the grill cloth then it is a 68 or 69. The giveaway is the NON MV.

72 brought about the MV series..all rated at 100 watts up to around 77 , then the Ultra Linear Transformer series came to life at an advertised 135 watts....

Now I didn't check each part, but my 71 Twin and 71 DSR are exactly the same chassis...one dated Oct 71 and the other dated Nov 71...Fender did NOT make 2 different amps but they did make different face plates., actually more than 2 !

The 68 thru 71 series is very interesting as Fender gained 15 watts without doing anything to the circuit..the competition, Mesa, Marshall etc took over the loud TUBE 100 watt amp market on the big stages, Vox was in trouble, they went all in on SS amps then went belly up.The Super Beatle left the planet... Fender did not have an advertised 100 watt amp...magically one day ..they did !

DSR's are excellent amps...great deals on the market..grab one if you can...Lopsided weight as you carry them, the power transformer side makes for an awkward carry.

t

[Bill Hatcher]

perhaps the changes made in the silver face amps regarding the values of components in the phase inverter and bias circuits got them the extra 15 watts..

[Tony Prior]

perhaps the changes made in the silver face amps regarding the values of components in the phase inverter and bias circuits got them the extra 15 watts..

And of course that is the big debate...nothing really changed to gain 20% output power..but it is suspected that the initial factory ratings were based on 110v AC which was the common nomenclature back then and who really knows what the Fender plant AC line voltage was. Today, everyone uses the maximum specifications for everything, if a transformer is capable of 125VAC then that right there can boost the power rating, just change the math.


The big concern from BF chassis to SF chassis was the tone stacks changed..not the power output..So common sense would have us believe if everyone who so called BF'd an amp also lost 15 watts of output power !

Wikipedai has a good comment on this +15 watt phenomenon as well..

Me I side with the good marketing thing..get us to 100 Watts so we can advertise 100 watts..I don't care how we get there !

But what do I know..I just plug em' in an play 'em...

t

[Gary Cosden]

The sixties was an era of creative marketing indeed. Muscle cars typically made, according to the brochures,
50-100 more HP than the same car does by today's standards.
My '68 Dual Showman has a silver face-plate but according to Ken Fox it is an original black face circuit and by his standards on his bench produced an 80 watt output which Ken thought to be quite good.
Whatever, at the end of the day its a wonderful amp.

[Justin Griffith]

Thanks guys.
Did either of you guys use it for steel? I'm thinking it could make a clean rig.

It makes one of the finest steel amps ever produced. I have one (had two at one time) and although I don't use it all the time it is among my favorites. I use it with one or two 8 ohm D-130's, or one D-130 and one BW.

Amp likes to see 4 ohms but using one 8 ohm you just loose a little volume. With an efficient speaker such as the JBL you will hardly notice. If you need more juice from it, use 2 cabinets.

Basically a Twin Reverb in a head cabinet.

With My Sho~Bud Professional, it is very special