Diatonic tuning on an e9 setup

[Chris Gabriel]

I recently tuned my pedal steel to the following diatonic tuning:
GF#ECBAGF#EC

I was hoping to create a new tuning which could be used on the E9 set-up, and found this to be decent despite a few "drawbacks".

But, I have been enjoying the exploration, this tuning is based off the JB diatonic tuning, with a raised 4th. You could call it"Cmaj#11 diatonic."

I disabled some of the double pulls, and tuned the levers and pedals to either 1/2 step lower or raise. Would that hurt the instrument over time?

Any one else tried something like this? My MSA classic pedal steel was sitting dormant so I thought I'd do some expirimenting
curious for your thoughts, I have done extensive reading in this forum concerning diatonic tuning, Including the old forum as well....
All the best,
Chris
Jazz Guitarist and Non-pedal player exploring the pedal steel

Oh yes, the copedant
G->G# (LKR)
F#-> F (LKL)
E
C->C# (RKR)
B -> C (C pedal)
A -> Bb (B pedal)
G
F# -> F (RKR)
E -> Eb ( LKL)
C -> C# ( A pedal)

P.S. I'm a lefty so the knee levers may be reversed, not to be confusing

[Lane Gray]

Those copedent changes won't harm your steel in the slightest.
The tuning looks odd to me, but if it works for you, that's great.

[Chris Gabriel]

Those copedent changes won't harm your steel in the slightest.
The tuning looks odd to me, but if it works for you, that's great.

I thought so, but was not sure, so thanks for confirming that, Lane!
The tuning is great for me, so far, the product of many nights of charting, etc... However, I consider it a work in progress...

[Dave Grafe]

What exactly makes this a "diatonic" tuning? The word refers to playing two notes at a time but I am missing the connect here...

[Chris Gabriel]

What exactly makes this a "diatonic" tuning? The word refers to playing two notes at a time but I am missing the connect here...

Thanks Dave, hope you are wel, bro.

Diatonic: of or pertaining to the tones, intervals, or harmonies of such scales.

So, the way I understand it is, JB created a tuning from the notes of the C scale, but he omitted the D for "justifiable" reasons. Heres a link with more info on that:
http://www.b0b.com/infoedu/c_scale.html

C scale: CDEFGABCDEFGABC etc....

the tuning I have come up with is based of the JB diatonic tuning, with the F altered. In my mind, I consider it C diatonic, especially since i can get the F now with a lever. (although some may say G diatonic?) In jazz theory, while improvising in the key of C, F is considered an "avoid" note. Just don't play it or rest on it while improvising, however, funnily enough, F# is considered a chord tone (#11). Therefore, Cmaj7#11. A chord I have always loved.

Mre simply said, diatonic refers to the original JB tuning, ECBAGFE.

[Chris Gabriel]

BTW..

I have studied b0b's diatonic F tuning, and enjoy reading about what folks are saying about this tuning. Just found a link to listen to some of HIS work on this tuning...

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=231233

certainly i am approaching this from a different angle! Would love it if b0b chimed in...

[Lane Gray]

"Diatonic" could also refer to the scale, Dave. But that'd also not fit. I see no D string. But it looks a combination of interesting and goofy. I'm not gonna try it, I'm too busy falling into Bb6

EDIT: He ninjad me while I was answering Dave. I see the arguments against the D string, and against a whole step raise. I am not sure I buy the argument against the whole-step raise; just because city thugs shoot people with fireams doesn't mean you can't hunt with 'em.

[Chris Gabriel]

I am a lefty, after all!

I like the analogy, btw. Gonna ponder now...

[b0b]

It's a pretty cool idea. You can try this on an E9th by changing the strings and retuning the pedals. No mechanical changes underneath are needed. Roy Thomson did a similar thing with his E Diatonic Conversion.

I've almost totally abandoned the diatonic tuning idea because it can't do the things that people expect a pedal steel to do. I still have my Sierra S-12 set up in F Diatonic, but it's been in the case for over a year.

[Chris Gabriel]

exactly what i was seeking, thanks bob for chiming in. I am unfortunately unable to purchase a new steel at the moment, and am seeking information like this, as I am considering some alterations to the mechanics of the guitar I already own.

Also, trying different tunings is like doing brain teasers, I enjoy the math behind music theory, compounded with the pedal set-up, is way better than "Suduko". (IMHO)

[b0b]

My Diatonic Adventures album is available for listening and downloading (only $2.50) from:
http://b0blee.bandcamp.com/album/diatonic-adventures

[Chris Gabriel]

nice... thank you sir for the link...

I will post a video of the tuning I metioned above, when i can get my fingers trained on it...

[b0b]

What exactly makes this a "diatonic" tuning? The word refers to playing two notes at a time but I am missing the connect here...

Diatonic. (1) A scale with seven different pitches (heptatonic) that are adjacent to one another on the circle of fifths; thus, one ... which is made up of whole tones and semitones arranged in the pattern embodied in the white keys of the piano keyboard. (2) Melody or harmony that employs primarily the pitches of a diatonic scale.
-The New Harvard Dictionary of Music

[Chris Gabriel]

So I rearranged the rods underneath the guitar and came up with the folowing:

G -> G# LKR
F# -> F RKL
E - Eb LKL
C -> C# or D RKR or C pedal
B -> Bb B pedal
A
G - G# LKR
F# -> F RKL
E -> Eb LKL
C -> C# or D RKR or A pedal

I intended to make those octave strings consistent, and it makes a difference.
I also learned alot about re-rodding. Didn't take long thanks to Bo Borland for sending me some learning materials!
I also learned alot about the copedant and that it will still need another tweak...now it's all about reassigning the knee levers, or perhaps adding a pedal or 2. Or grow 2 more knees...
I also learned that my guitar needs a good bath! But, no major problems, having fun, b0b I love diatonic adventures, especially "the Great Pyramid", gonna go practice now,
Chris

[Chris Gabriel]

Lydian Tuning

Here's a link to a sample of the tuning described above. My first real attempt with the tuning.

[b0b]

Very cool. Chris. All that, and left-handed too!

I guess that my F tuning could be called Bb Lydian then?

[Roy Thomson]

Chris that is wonderful!!

I am very facinated watching and listening to that
because it is left handed delivery. Excellent!

The tuning and the pulls are unique.

I hope you stick with the set up and learning
more arrangements. Will look forward to hearing
more in the future.

Roy

[Sam Conomo]

got any more vid,s done chris
sam.

[Chris Gabriel]

Many thanks for the kind words.
I am enjoying exploring on the open sea. It may be some time before I post something new. I hope you understand. I'm workin on it though, maybe something classical, maybe a jazz tune. Got a few things on the burners.

Sam pointed out the Lydian quality of the tuning, which made sense to me. My point of origin is C, and naming the tuning after the mode seemed kinda fitting. Better than
"chris-o-matic"! But, you could call it G diatonic, or A Dorian, whichever you prefer. And looking at it from the different points of origin is good practice.

I'm gonna stick with it! Although, I love C6, and will not give that up, either.

Thanks again, y'all! Going to spend time with the family now,
Chris

[Chris Gabriel]

New Fascinations
in the lydian tuning

[Dan Beller-McKenna]

In normal musical parlance diatonic would simply mean using the notes of the scale without chromatic tones. As someone posted above, the tuning here is only lacking the D to me diatonic in G. It is Lydian if you orient around C.

Seems like it would be easiest to orient around G, but you would need a D in there that could be raised a whole step (E) along with raising B to C to get what "people expect a pedal steel to do," if you want that.

Dan

[Chris Gabriel]

Thanks Dan, for the comment!
I raise the C strings to a D with either pedal A or C, Thereby achieving the scale. I orient around C, thinking of it as C6 with extra F# and B strings.

Certainly, unexpected sounds result with the unique tuning. I'm good with that, in fact, I am enjoying that.

Not to say the expected isn't as good. I'd love to have another steel solely for E9 and/or C6. I'm enjoying the exploration, and feel compelled to stick with it, for a while longer.

Someday, I'll be able to afford a new steel guitar. I'm thinking of ordering an Emmons, I'm saving up...

Gonna go hang with the wife now,
Chris

[Chris Gabriel]

Well, after sitting in front of this tuning for awhile, I have taken it off of my guitar...For now.

Here's why:

Low notes: with the lowest gauge a .030, the lowest I can go with this tuning is middle C, or just below it.

Now that the weather is warmer, and I'm playing more with/for others, it's back to KISS! That means, for me, C6.

I never have had C6 on my pedal steel, and I love it. I love the low notes.

Well, another diatonic expedition, in the future. There are great possibilites with diatonic tuning. It's not complete, by any means. I hope to go back to it. I'll let you know,

Chris