New discussion on DAW's and Hardware Recorders

Bob Martin · Post by **Bob Martin** » 21 Oct 2010 3:37 pm

OK I'm back and it seems that we all enjoy discussing the applications and machines we use to record our music. So first off let's just call any medium that we use to record our projects as DAW's that will make things much easier to help us discuss them.

Obviously there is no way that I can ever remember or even look up every medium there is to record music so let's leave the poll out of this post. It won't be very hard to see which ones are used the most as we post our favorites and read the posts.

I'll start out telling you all that it was very hard for me to move from hardware recording machines such as Fostex, Roland and Yamaha and others, but finally I made the plunge to recording using my computer.

I tried several software packages but ended up with Cakewalk Sonar and have stayed with it while using various software apps to help add effects and other cool audio helpers until Sonar finally progressed far enough along that I can just about rely upon Sonar all by itself without other apps but on some occasions I do use other plugins to polish my recordings and help my guitar playing along. It needs all of the help it can get if you know what I mean

Let's hear some of your favorite applications or machines that you like to usem to record your music and please no "my way is better than your way" LOL we are all friends and adults and I'm hoping to learn something from all of this!!

Bob

Bent Romnes · Post by **Bent Romnes** » 21 Oct 2010 5:48 pm

Bob I have dabbled a wee bit in Adobe Audition 3.0
I don't know enough to compare to anything else but...
I found Adobe fairly easy to learn the basics; it had a lot of tracks and also lots of effects. I haven't heard this one mentioned much here and thought I would see who else favors this one and why? If you don't favor it say so as well and explain.

Graeme Jaye · Post by **Graeme Jaye** » 21 Oct 2010 6:04 pm

Basiacally, my experience is totally opposite to yours - which merely goes to show it's very much a 'horses for courses' exercise

.

I should start by saying that I am a recording engineer first (now retired) and a musician second. Most engineers play, to one degree or another, and this helps them when communicating with their slients.

I was brought up on tape-based systems. My first experience was in a four track studio and I was working with 48 tracks/automated mixing by the time I retired from the business. Broadly speaking, I knew pretty much what one needed to know at that time.

After I left the business, I got involved in recording material for my own amusement. This was primarily using a computer and one of several DAW applications - although I finally settled on Cakewalk/Sonar as the one most suitable for my way of working.

However, although not a computet illiterate, I seemed to spend more time fixing problems in the system than actually producing any recordings (and yes, I was using a computer dedicated to audio work, everything else was done on another machine).

A couple of years ago, I took the plunge and purchased a hard disk recorder (Korg D3200). This has proved to be infinitely more reliable than any computer-based system I have ever used. No crashes, no sync problems, no latency problems, etc., etc. With this system, I have no worries when recording at different locations, something I would not have dared doing using a computer.

For someone who wants to concentrate on making recordings, rather than spend time sorting out problems, I would recommend a system such as this (there are plenty of choices and price points) over a computer-based system every time.

Graeme Jaye · Post by **Graeme Jaye** » 21 Oct 2010 6:12 pm

Bent Romnes wrote:Bob I have dabbled a wee bit in Adobe Audition 3.0......I haven't heard this one mentioned much here and thought I would see who else favors this one and why? If you don't favor it say so as well and explain.

I use Audition extensively for restoration work (my current money-earning gig) but I don't like it much for multitracking.

It's hard to say what exactly it is I don't like. It suffers from all the problems of most software-based DAW's, but I think the real killer for me is that it has a very poor implementation for midi (which I use a lot). Therte are a number of other softwares that handle midi a lot better than Audition does.

All that said, I still prefer working with a hardware machine (see my earlier post) where audio only is concerned.

jolynyk · Post by **jolynyk** » 21 Oct 2010 11:48 pm

I also have a D3200, & love it.. user friendly, especially since I installed the "2 see my computer" hardware, & now have it hooked up to an LCD monitor. awesome & never have to look for plug ins etc.. I used a Roland VS1680 before this, so now will be putting the VS1680 up for sale..

Dave Boothroyd · Post by **Dave Boothroyd** » 22 Oct 2010 12:48 am

I spent the fifteen years before my retirement teaching Music Technology up to degree level in College. Prior to that I'd worked in studios with multi-track 2" tape machines- even a home made one, made from a converted pro Video Tape Machine.
In my first college studio, we had Da38 digital multitrack cassette recorders, and Cubase (which was Midi only in those days), all running through a desk with VCA automation- no motorised faders.
In the next one, we used Sonar in pre and post production and in one studio, 8 track reel to reel in the analogue room, and ADATs in the digital room. An upgrade saw a switch to Protools in both studios, with the addition of a Radio studio and the transfer of the ADATS to the live rig in the performance venue. The Higher level students were expected to be equally familiar with Logic Pro running on G5 Macs.
At home I use PT8, along with Reason and Melodyne, on PC.
I would find it very difficult to put up with the restrictions imposed by a hardware recorder these days. I remember that we could do wonders with tape- but I would never want to go back to it.
Cheers
Dave

Graeme Jaye · Post by **Graeme Jaye** » 22 Oct 2010 3:22 am

jolynyk wrote:I also have a D3200, & love it.. user friendly, especially since I installed the "2 see my computer" hardware, & now have it hooked up to an LCD monitor.

Can you expand on this?

My only real complaint about the D3200 is the screen size - lot of information on very little real estate - and I would love to have the ability to add a bigger screen,

Joe Cook · Post by **Joe Cook** » 22 Oct 2010 3:38 am

Yes Graeme, I have a D3200 and the screen size is the #1 complaint with this unit. I put a large plastic magnifier sheet on a clip stand in front of it and it works just fine. Other than that, I really like the machine. Easy to use and understand. I just don't like fiddling with computers.

jolynyk · Post by **jolynyk** » 22 Oct 2010 6:30 am

http://www.2seemy.com/

This is the cream of the D3200. It installs very quickly, easily, takes half hour or so,depends if you stop for a coffee. you can hook it up directly to any monitor or by USB cable to a computer. I have (2) D3200, & bought this for both of them, one is for my son.. I bought 2 used LCD monitors, one is 15", one is 17". $30 each.. love it, love it.. Don't know how I ever did without it.. Give your selves an early Christmas present & get one... You'll never regret it.. Incidentally I'm not affiliated with this product, just one extremely happy user..
I got one directly from Wilfred, the guy who invented it, & the other I bought from Tonejoint who is a USA dealer..

jolynyk · Post by **jolynyk** » 22 Oct 2010 6:53 am

http://www.youtube.com/user/ToneJoint
Lots of great videos here by Tonejoint , a lot easier to install than he makes it out to be..

jolynyk · Post by **jolynyk** » 22 Oct 2010 7:22 am

http://www.studiotrax.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=154

Lots of info here on the D3200

Graeme Jaye · Post by **Graeme Jaye** » 22 Oct 2010 8:29 am

jolynyk wrote:http://www.2seemy.com/

This is the cream of the D3200.

Thank you very much - this is exactly what I was looking for!

I do use a magnifying glass, similar to Joe Cook, but that is not a real solution. This is 150% better.

jolynyk · Post by **jolynyk** » 22 Oct 2010 9:16 am

Actually once you install it & use it, you'll say it's 1000% better, & how we ever got along without it.. When I ordered from Wilfred (he's in France) I got it within 10 days to Canada. He's the inventor & a great guy to deal with.. Tonejoint recommends to wear plastic gloves for installation, I guess not to get any dirt or anything on the board during installation... Go for it, you can buy me a drink later,

Teddy Ray Bullard II · Post by **Teddy Ray Bullard II** » 24 Oct 2010 10:00 pm

Sequoia/Samplitude and REAPER(I apprenticed on PT back when the mix system and 888s were popular..and the digi002)

SEQUOIA runs circles around PT for the work I am involved with (LIve and location recording of acoustic and classical music)

the reason it runs circles around PT-

simple. 4 point crossfade editor. CRUCIAL in classical music.!

also..object based editing. Workflow. Included plugin quality. Price(no proprietary hardware so that you can even use the thing!)

I am very fond of reaper too. It is a really special tool.

Bob Martin · Post by **Bob Martin** » 8 Nov 2010 11:02 pm

I will say one thing about this new thread. If nothing else happened we have learned a great way to upgrade the D3200 to a screen size that will allow even some of us older guys with older eyes

to enjoy using the D3200 has always been a great machine just like most other digital recorders but as far as I know this is one of the very first that someone has came up with a way to put a big screen on

Of course I am not speaking of some of the top of the line Roland recorders that come with a VGA output or a slot for a board. I am primarily speaking of some of the killer 8 and 16 even 24 track recorders that have a small screen with no way to upgrade it to a real computer screen!!! Just think about the Tascam 24 track that is very price smart and even comes with a great 64 voice midi module built in, if it had a way to upgrade it to a big PC screen they would fly off the shelves.

So I think this should give a new life to the D3200 digital recorders. If I wasn't already all setup with Sonar I'd buy a D3200 and upgrade it in a heartbeat! Thanks guys for this critical info!!!

Big Bob

Joey Ace · Post by **Joey Ace** » 9 Nov 2010 1:14 pm

Wow! I wish there was a similar device for my Tascam 2488. Is there??

jolynyk · Post by **jolynyk** » 9 Nov 2010 8:05 pm

Wow! I wish there was a similar device for my Tascam 2488. Is there??

yes there is.. I'll get a link to the site & post it here in the next day or two., My buddy here in Tx, just bought one & wants me to install it for him.. I'll also post about ease or ??? of the install.lol..
I had a Korg D3200, & put a (2 see my) in it, then gave it to my son, & bought another D3200 from a forumite here, & put the same thing in it & am hooked up to a 17" monitor... awesome..
I live in a mobile, computer room is 6'x10', so computer recording (good or bad) is totally out of the question.. The Korg or any other stand alone,is the best thing since dark rum, great portability, korg in one hand, & my BIAB hd in my shirt pocket, & ready to go..Laptop for recording? by the time I got it fitted out cost wise, I could buy several stand alones, YMMV..

Tommy Bannister · Post by **Tommy Bannister** » 9 Nov 2010 8:54 pm

Wow! I wish there was a similar device for my
FOSTEX24 TRACK D24+24 LV Is there PLEASE ANYONE???
MY EYES ARE getting old as well LOL
i DO HAVE A COUPLE OF SPARE MONITORS FOR THIS IF POSSIBLE
Thanks in advance forum guys.
TOM

Joey Ace · Post by **Joey Ace** » 10 Nov 2010 2:34 am

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 10 Nov 2010 4:16 am

Please visit my thread with regard to the Zoom R-16, or R24( same thing) This small unit is really quite a fine compliment to a PC DAW..interactive or as a stand-alone workstation...and..well..take minute to look at the thread..

and yes Joey..about a 5th the size of a Tascam 2488 which I was also considering, and about half the cost....

http://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=194904

Joey Ace · Post by **Joey Ace** » 10 Nov 2010 4:26 am

Yes Tony, that looks like a great unit.

My situation is I already own a 2488 and am very experienced with it's interface, since I previously owned a Tascam 788, it's predecessor, with an almost identical OS.

The only thing I don't like is the small screen, so if I can get a VGA interface I'd be very happy.

As it is now, I only track with the Tascam, and mix in Audicity on a computer.

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 10 Nov 2010 5:08 am

Joey, does the 2488 have song project files separated into individual wav files / per track ? Meaning one wav file per recorded track within the song......When reading the manual on line that wasn't clear to me. That's what I was looking for...that was my number one feature for a multi tracker replacement for the Yamaha. This obviously allows transferring any or all track files into Sonar as wav's, all lined up perfectly. And, vice versa if need be...

I really like the 2488 it was actually # 1 on my hunt list until I started getting serious...and then learned a bit more about the Zoom and the file thing. The display is not really that big of an issue, each track has it's own LED bar meter, the LCD display is small but not so small that you need real big eye's ! For me I really had no choice, my Yamaha AW is not PC friendly which makes it ..well..
ancient !

t

t

Joey Ace · Post by **Joey Ace** » 10 Nov 2010 5:17 am

You can export any track as a WAV.
The bad news is you have to do them one at a time.

That's why mixing on the 2488 (with a decent size display) looks good to me. I'd only have to export a single mixed song.

Here's a discussion on the topic, Tony:

http://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=275143

Tony Prior · Post by **Tony Prior** » 10 Nov 2010 6:16 am

ahhh one at a time..bummer...no wonder I couldn't actually understand it in the manual, it wasn't really clear...

ok then..My Yamaha does one wav or one stereo wav file at a time, but by CD burning...Sonar allows splitting a stereo wav into separate mono tracks when importing, but I gotta say, importing ALL the wav files at one time into Sonar from the R16 is quite the treat ! No more mixing in the little piece of plastic !

I could have lived with one track at a time from the 2488 by USB, it's not like I do 24 tracks a day, more like 24 tracks a year ! thanks for the info !

t

jolynyk · Post by **jolynyk** » 11 Nov 2010 9:08 am

OK, here ya go for the Tascam 2488 owners......
email is.... admin@hgr2488.co.uk

Address is...........

HGR Music
22 Tower Estate
Dymchurch, Kent
TN29 OTN
United Kingdom

His price was...
74.99 Pounds
9,50 Shipping
---------------
84.99 Total Pounds

At the time of his purchase it converted to $137.08 USD.... In my humble opinion well worth it. Installation CD comes with it.. For my Korg I paid $200 plus shipping, still a great deal & a nice big screen..
For other recorders, You would have to contact them & see if they sell anything for them...

Sorry there was no phone # on the invoice..