Johnny Rebel

Frank Freniere · Post by **Frank Freniere** » 3 Dec 2007 5:59 pm

Jeez, I feel funny bringing this up but...

Howard Stern played a few cuts this morning from the "new" Johnny Rebel CD as a goof on his morning satellite radio show.

Johnny Rebel is a hate-spewing racist playing C&W music. But where did he get his band? These guys were good! The steel was excellent! What with advances in audio and digital technology, I can understand that the production values were first-rate.

But what are the chances you'll find really talented musicians who'll play behind that kind of content/message? Maybe the players just laid down tracks without knowing the singer or lyrics to follow? Any of you pro guys out there ever do that? Is this an accepted practice for session musicians?

Mitch Drumm · Post by **Mitch Drumm** » 3 Dec 2007 6:48 pm

With 5 minutes of Google searching, you can identify who Johnny Rebel really is, as well as the steel player. That stuff was recorded in Crowley, Louisiana close to 40 years ago. The steel player is very highly regarded, still playing, and frequently mentioned on the Steel Guitar Forum.

I am assuming what you heard on Stern was the "original" Johnny Rebel and his 1960s recordings. There may be someone else operating under that name for all I know.

Frank Freniere · Post by **Frank Freniere** » 3 Dec 2007 7:04 pm

Thanks for the info, Mitch. But no, the sound quality was way past the '60's

Michael Lee Allen · Post by **Michael Lee Allen** » 3 Dec 2007 8:37 pm

Deleted.

Andy Sandoval · Post by **Andy Sandoval** » 4 Dec 2007 3:21 am

Frank Freniere wrote:Maybe the players just laid down tracks without knowing the singer or lyrics to follow?

Somehow I find it hard to believe that any musician would lay down some tracks in a studio, and get paid without knowin who he's playin for. I'm pretty sure the musicians on Mr. Clifford Joseph "Pee Wee" Trahan's recording knew what they were gettin into.

Joey Ace · Post by **Joey Ace** » 5 Dec 2007 9:54 am

The Steel Player on the original recordings was inducted into the SGHOF in 2002.

His Johnny Rebel tenure in not mentioned on his plaque.

Johnny Rebel claims he was never a racist, and says he made "novelty records".

I don't know who played on recent recordings. I've heard they were made post-911, and much of the hatred was directed toward Bin Laden and his cronies.

Bob Blair · Post by **Bob Blair** » 5 Dec 2007 2:18 pm

What I've seen from doing some of the same research others have done makes the singer's denials pretty hollow. Shameful.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 5 Dec 2007 7:13 pm

Oh, they were just "novelty" records? Well, if it was just a joke, then it doesn't count, right? Where have we heard that before? Unfortunately there are many people throughout the South and the rest of the country who believe that stuff, and think it's funny (I know - I'm kin to some of them). Why wouldn't some of them be musicians, even good ones?

Joey Ace · Post by **Joey Ace** » 5 Dec 2007 7:36 pm

We're all in agreement that this stuff was ugly racist crap.

I'm still interested in the original question about how
you find excellent musicians for such a project.

I suspect it's just a money thing. If a player has to feed his family he just might hold his nose and do the job.

I would like to believe I'm above that, but I'm blessed with a decent day job.

Scott Shipley · Post by **Scott Shipley** » 5 Dec 2007 7:37 pm

If you want racist, go check out some of the sides cut in the mid to late 1930's by Governor Jimmy Davis before he was Governor Jimmy Davis.

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 5 Dec 2007 9:13 pm

David Doggett wrote:Oh, they were just "novelty" records? Well, if it was just a joke, then it doesn't count, right? Where have we heard that before? Unfortunately there are many people throughout the South and the rest of the country who believe that stuff, and think it's funny (I know - I'm kin to some of them). Why wouldn't some of them be musicians, even good ones?

David, why do you single out the South? I know, you're gonna break out some pedigree, saying that you've spent time here, but I very much resent your comment. May I suggest an edit???

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 5 Dec 2007 10:32 pm

And Joey, if Doggett's gonna embarass my beloved South, why not make the picture complete, and tell us which HOF steeler played this stuff? Could it be that he's not Southern???

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 5 Dec 2007 10:33 pm

Stephen, I mentioned the South because that's where those records are made. Also, historically the South is well known for its racist grassroots organizations, political movements, and politicians. I grew up in Mississippi, where my family goes back generations, some of whom owned slaves. Many of my relatives and close acquaintances growing up were openly racist, some were not. The first step in solving a problem is admitting that there is a problem.

I also specifically mentioned "other parts of the country," because I have lived on the West Coast and in the Northeast, and have encountered racists essentially everywhere I have been, which includes all but a few states in the Northwest. People all over hear my southern accent, and make racist comments, and tell racist jokes they think I will appreciate.

I don't mean to get off into politics which are inappropriate for the Forum, but this thread is about a political type of music. None of the posters before my comment were from the South, and some were from Canada. They seemed puzzled that good musicians would participate in that type of music. My point to them is that in spite of a thin veneer of political correctness and good behavior in public, many people "in the South and other parts of the country" still harbor radically racist beliefs and feelings, and there is no reason some of them would not be good musicians.

I understand, and try to respect, b0b's desire to keep the Forum focused on steel guitar and music, and to discourage political discourse. But when racism comes up in the context of discussions of music, sweeping it under the rug and pretending that musicians can't be racist just like anyone else is unrealistic, and does not help the problem. Also, as a southerner, I believe pretending the South does not have a unique history of racism is unrealistic. I don't mean to insult southerners who are not racist, but I've lived too long there to pretend to be so naive.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 5 Dec 2007 10:41 pm

Stephen, on this site (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Rebel_(singer)), over in the box on the right under "Former Members," there is the name of a well known steeler.

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 6 Dec 2007 12:48 pm

David, I STILL resent your remarks. I can't help it! I am 52 years old was raised in a non-prejudiced household, and still hold to those values today. You say that you mentioned the South because it's where the records were made. So were records by Ray Price, Robert Johnson, Elvis, Aretha Franklin.
Now I'll not make any comments about "pointy-headed-derby-wearing-Emmons-wannabe-pseudo-intellectual Yankees continuing to pillage the South, its culture, and its music." I'll let the historians sort that one out. But an edit is STILL in order, IMO.

David Doggett · Post by **David Doggett** » 6 Dec 2007 3:12 pm

Since we are talking about Johnny Rebel and who played with him, not about Ray, Robert, Elvis or Aretha, and since I have never worn a derby hat (that's a Blues Brothers hat in my Avatar) and am not a Yankee, I don't get your point. I love the South and its culture, warts and all, as much as anyone. But I am not afraid to point out the warts and deal with them.

I suspect this thread has served its purpose, and it seems to be drifting off topic and getting personal.

John Steele (deceased) · Post by **John Steele (deceased)** » 6 Dec 2007 3:41 pm

Somehow I find it hard to believe that any musician would lay down some tracks in a studio, and get paid without knowin who he's playin for.

I believe it. It happens all the time. I can count two instances in the last six months where I've done it.
To this day I can't tell you whose projects they were, and the producer's promises of a finished copy are never realized.
In my situation, it's unlikely to matter, as nobody will ever hear the stuff, aside from the family members upon whom their vanity project is foisted.
-John

P Gleespen · Post by **P Gleespen** » 6 Dec 2007 4:17 pm

Nevermind.

Scott Shipley · Post by **Scott Shipley** » 6 Dec 2007 4:27 pm

Hey! Maybe we have inadvertently stumbled upon the soluion to many a thread here on the forum........if we all just refuse to play the sessions we don't think are worthy of our talent, there would be nothing left on the radio except the good stuff, right?

John P. Phillips · Post by **John P. Phillips** » 6 Dec 2007 4:31 pm

Ahhhh, I was gonna say that !!!!!

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 6 Dec 2007 6:54 pm

It's GOOD to be revered!

Joe Alterio · Post by **Joe Alterio** » 30 Jan 2008 10:04 pm

Why is everyone afraid to note that it was Pee Wee Whitewing that played on the early stuff? Are we afraid to "out" him? If he didn't know at first what he was playing on, well....he certainly would have found out soon, since this crap was recorded over several years.

I'd like to know why he would WANT to play on this stuff. Sounds like he was a session guy for the label that this stuff was originally put out on....but still....this is just disgusting stuff to be associated with.

Interestingly, this Rebel guy still puts out new music, but the steel guitarist (and other musicians) are anonymous.

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 30 Jan 2008 11:43 pm

I should point out that on the old Forum that contained Off Topic, there were two fellows who openly praised David Duke to me, and suggested I read his books because they were "the truth."

Suggesting that type of Klan/Neo-Nazi reading material to one who lost a third of his family in the Holocaust is not exactly preaching to the choir, if you get my drift.

One gentleman (am I being generous or what?) was from Colorado, the other from Ohio. The Ohioan has since passed on.

I was raised in SoCal, but spent almost my entire adult life in the South and love it dearly. But I have played country music shows in KKK halls and it wierded me out to no end.

Jason Odd · Post by **Jason Odd** » 31 Jan 2008 7:43 pm

uhh.. small point. does anyone have the records from 1960-64, and if so do they have steel?

That was Pee Wee's tenure at the same studio as they were cut, essentially every Johnny Rebel record I've heard from that time (only two..) has no steel.

Last time I saw a topic about Johnny Rebel was over at the Yahoo Hillbilly list, some poor dude who was just interested from a music history point of view got ran off the list.

Seeing as we're throwing around Aretha's name, like didn't she record in New York, and not the south until January of 1967?

John Floyd · Post by **John Floyd** » 31 Jan 2008 11:40 pm

Turn in his HOF Plaque? Make restitution, give up part of his income for the rest of his life? What would make you happy? Maybe Chop off some fingers?

Get Serious!

We've all worked in Places that weren't on the up and up. I've worked in more syndicate clubs than you can shake a stick at and was treated nicely and paid well. I've also had to get a meal on credit at Tootsies, You never know what you will do until you're hungry.

Don't put your High Morals and Values in front of your Grocery List!

I seriously doubt that a lot of you ever had to make your living from playing music except for Herb and thats exactly the definition of a professional, Not if you make part of your living, but all of it.

The Steel Guitar Forum

Johnny Rebel

Johnny Rebel

What Would you Folks with High Morals Suggest The Man Do?