Willin' on 6-string lap steel?

Walter Seaman · Post by **Walter Seaman** » 1 Jan 2010 2:38 pm

Hi everyone,
I would like to try to play an approximate version of the Sneaky Pete Kleinow beautiful pedal steel work on Willin' on Linda Rondstat's Heart Like A Wheel album.

Can anyone point me to a tuning that might get me close to the Kleinow's performance and/or tabs for that steel work? I've read that it on that song can be played in open G on guitar at least. I've used slide guitar in open E but it's a pretty pale-sounding comparison.

Thanks and happy new year!
WS

WS

Peter Jacobs · Post by **Peter Jacobs** » 2 Jan 2010 8:12 am

I play it open-G tuning (actually Gsus4 -- I add a C on top for the suspended note). G tuning lets me use a lot of open strings, so I can let them ring.

Not sure about how to approximate Pete's approach, though -- he was amazing.

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 2 Jan 2010 10:27 am

Peter, when you say you add a C on top for the suspended note, are you referring to playing the song on a 7 or 8 string guitar as opposed to a 6 string lap steel?

Or are you replacing the tuning of the first string, which is D, and tuning it down to C?

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 2 Jan 2010 11:14 am

For reference http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MI1UBiWsm14 - steel solo is at 1:33.

Sneaky Pete used a B6th pedal steel tuning with E9th-like pedals. You can play some of his licks on a C6th lap steel by using reverse slants. Here's the basic technique for E9th pedal simulation:
[tab]C6
E ________________8--7________________
C __7--7___7--7__________5--4_________
A ____________________________________
G __9--7__________9--7___5--5_________
E _________7--8_______________________
C ____________________________________ [/tab]
The idea is to hold one note steady while you slant or straighten the bar. Use your thumb on the heel of the bar to control the slant.

The timbre of string gauges in C6th is basically the same as Pete's B6th, so you should be able to get close to the same "sound" on a lap steel. It's much harder to play those licks if you don't have pedals, though.

Walter Seaman · Post by **Walter Seaman** » 2 Jan 2010 11:37 am

Thanks these are great suggestions. I'll give them a try. Thanks for the notes, links and ideas!
WS

Peter Jacobs · Post by **Peter Jacobs** » 3 Jan 2010 9:59 am

Walter - I use a 6 string, but I get rid of the low B and add a C on top: G D G B D C (low to high). I was always tripping over the low B, and the C let's me do suspended chords and arpeggios that I couldn't get without moving the steel or bending the B string -- this way, I can let the strings ring when it suits the song.

Tim Tweedale · Post by **Tim Tweedale** » 4 Jan 2010 11:44 am

What an incredible solo. The guitar solo before it is pretty awesome too. Sneaky Pete ALSO does a beautiful solo on Willin' on Little Feat's 1972 album "Sailin' Shoes". Worth checking out.

Speaking of steel guitarists who got you started on the instrument (in the Lindley thread) I hear a lot of steel guitarists point to Sneaky Pete as their first influence.

Something about those west coasters, and their way of taking ideas and running with them. Sneaky (and Lindley's) approach is far from normal. So idiosyncratic. I love his rhythms and phrasing, the strength of his attack and rock & roll approach.

Thanks for starting this thread, Walter! And for what it's worth, I think it's very do-able on open G with no slants or pedal-approximations.

-Tim

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 4 Jan 2010 11:58 am

I can't imagine playing lap steel without slants. Why would you do that? Slants give you ability to play any two note harmony. The first thing I did when I started playing lap steel was to learn the parallel thirds scale with bar slants. It was the obvious way to play, for me anyway.

I really can't imagine playing lap steel without bar slants. I don't think I could get any music out of it. Far too limiting IMHO.

I also don't think of the pedal steel simulation slants as "approximations". They are exactly the same notes, created using a different method. They actually sound richer, tone-wise, on lap steel because the vibrating string length is changing. This changes the harmonic structure of the sound in an almost magical way that you rarely hear from a pedal steel.

It might be more appropriate to say that pedals "approximate" the sound of bar slants.

Tim Tweedale · Post by **Tim Tweedale** » 4 Jan 2010 3:11 pm

I do use slants, but if I were adapting this song to lap steel (particularly G-tuned), I probably wouldn't.

I guess it just goes to show that there are always more ways to do things...

Interesting point about the physical difference between slants and pedal action!

-Tim

Walter Seaman · Post by **Walter Seaman** » 6 Jan 2010 8:29 am

I'm still new to pedal steel so I find slants pretty challenging, especially the ones where you start the bar in one position and move to a slanted position as it's ringing. Those are really pretty sounding and I like putting them in, but I don't always hit the notes just right (ending up with one or several notes a bit flat or sharp) and that can be annoying. I'm hopeful that I'll get better with more practice (maybe a LOT more practice).

Peter-that tuning you mentioned seems cool and is new to me:
"G D G B D C (low to high)."
This is for a lap steel, isn't it (I told you I was new to the steel!)? What gauge strings do you use for this?

I'm definitely going to check out the Little Feat Willin' cover ( OK I guess that's the original!)-I didn't know about it.

I didn't know much about Little Feat I guess it's clear.

Thanks y'all!
WS

Mark Eaton · Post by **Mark Eaton** » 6 Jan 2010 8:48 am

Peter, thanks for clarifying your tuning, I'd like to give that a shot.

I got a kick out of one comment from a You Tube poster under the Linda Ronstadt version:

"Funny how the young people associate this song with the movie Abyss, while us seasoned music afficianados remember Linda and this incredible song like it came out yesterday. Love you Linda!"

I've never seen the movie Abyss, but then I'm not a young people.

I like the Ronstadt version too, but it is, and always will be a Lowell George/Little Feat song to me!

b0b · Post by **b0b** » 6 Jan 2010 8:57 am

I agree, Mark. I'm sure I'd heard Linda's cover of it before, but it never really registered. To me it was always a Little Feat song.

Tim Tweedale · Post by **Tim Tweedale** » 6 Jan 2010 9:45 am

(edited out redundant comment)

I am figuring out this solo on pedal steel right now. I can't get it out of my head!

Peter Jacobs · Post by **Peter Jacobs** » 6 Jan 2010 10:09 am

I had forgotten how good Linda's version was -- man, could she sing! The guitar and steel breaks are off the hook. But, it's a Little Feat song for me, too.

Mark, for my tuning on a 22.5" scale, I found what works best is:

C - .018
D - .018
B - .022
G - .026
D - .036
G - .052

I've used a .048 for the low G, but the 52 feels better to me. The first two strings should probably be .019 and .017, but it's easier and cheaper to use 18s for both.

I started using this to try an fake some Sonny Landreth licks. Silly, delusional me, trying to sound like him...

Jerry Overstreet · Post by **Jerry Overstreet** » 6 Jan 2010 4:07 pm

I admire your taste in music Walter! You must let us know how it works out for you. Maybe post a clip when you get it down.

The first Little Feat cut was on the self titled album. Just George with acoustic guitar and Ry Cooder on slide guitar, so you might check that out if you find it. Don't remember too much about it, as being a steel nut, Pete's work on both cuts blew me away and stuck in my head more.

Not too long ago, I was in the grocery and the Ronstadt cut was playing over the P.A. I had forgotten how good it was.

Growing into an old dude the last few years, I have some second thoughts re: part of the lyric, but still a great tune IMO.

Tim Tweedale · Post by **Tim Tweedale** » 6 Jan 2010 5:02 pm

Ms. Ronstadt sure has some good taste in steel and slide guitarists; she's worked with David Lindley, Ry Cooder, Sneaky Pete and Dan Dugmore. Who else is on that list?