Bar Slants

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 15 Jun 2005 9:24 pm

I'm just curious, how many pedal players still throw in a bar slant now and then?

Myself, I on the E9 I'll grab the 9 string as a dominant 7th in the bottom and use a slant on strings 5 and 6, with and without the A pedal.

For me this was originally inspired by a riff in the bridge section of TB's Recording of Bud's Bounce and I just took it from there and crawled.

I do it now and then in a number of other situations. With no C6 neck to mess with a man has to adapt and improvise.

Like I said, curious....

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<img align=right src="http://www.pdxaudio.com/dgsept03.jpg" width="114 height="114">Dave Grafe - email: dg@pdxaudio.com
Production
Pickin', etc.

1978 ShoBud Pro I E9, Randall Steel Man 500, 1963 Precision Bass, 1954 Gibson LGO, 1897 Washburn Hawaiian Steel Conversion
[This message was edited by Dave Grafe on 15 June 2005 at 10:28 PM.]

Marty Pollard · Post by **Marty Pollard** » 15 Jun 2005 9:45 pm

No.
Never.
Ever.
EVER!

And if you (any you, not just Dave) can't do it without intonation problems, you should never do it either!

Stephen Gambrell · Post by **Stephen Gambrell** » 15 Jun 2005 9:50 pm

As a dobro player, sometimes I simply FORGET that there's a pedal there to do that stuff. Only problem is reverse slants, when my whole body spins around...

Klaus Caprani · Post by **Klaus Caprani** » 15 Jun 2005 10:03 pm

I rarely do bar slants. Ofcourse on lapsteel I have to from time to time, but I don't think I ever pull one off without intonation problems.

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Klaus Caprani

MCI RangeXpander S-10 3x4
www.klauscaprani.com

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 15 Jun 2005 10:11 pm

You gotta USE that bullnose if you want to grab more than one string up there and have it be music.

Dave Grafe · Post by **Dave Grafe** » 15 Jun 2005 10:27 pm

Anyway, Marty, I was slantin' bars regular long before I had pedals, if I ever thought it would sound bad I sure wouldn't do it.

Ron ! · Post by **Ron !** » 15 Jun 2005 11:32 pm

Regularly.It has nothing to do wether you have pedals or not.Sometimes a song just sounds better with barslants.Having pedals under your guitar does not mean that you have to use them.
Take Lloyd for example.I know of no steel player that uses more slants than he does.And he sounds great.

Ron[This message was edited by Ronald ! on 16 June 2005 at 12:32 AM.]

Tony Harris · Post by **Tony Harris** » 16 Jun 2005 1:27 am

I was watching Merle Haggard's live DVD the other day. Not very much of Norm Hamlet's steel work, but I did see him slant the bar oncde or twice.

David Mason · Post by **David Mason** » 16 Jun 2005 3:04 am

There's a whole family of forward slants on the C6th neck that work both with and without pedals. They're easier to play higher on the neck and with a longer bar, for obvious reasons. I like to play out of the slant positions and change the angle of the bar to fret notes.

Like, in C6th, fret a G note on the 15th fret of the 6th string, a B note on the 16th fret of the 5th string, and a D on the 17th fret of the 4th string for a G major chord - you can lower the 3rd string for a G7. Then change the pitch of the notes by moving the angle of the bar, and going across the strings, not just up and down â€“ of course, you combine it with slides too. Control is hard, but that's what practice is for?

Backward slants seem less useful to me, because the C6th tuning is fairly close in its voicings to begin with and slanting the bar backwards tends to give you diatonic scales at best*, which I find easier to get by moving the bar unless you want a special effect. I mostly use 1 1/4" and 1 3/8" acrylic bars.

*(Or warpy sitaresque sympathetic-string shimmers which I actually like better, ex. "Back to the Light" on Bruce Kaphan's "Slider" CD)

Bob Carlucci · Post by **Bob Carlucci** » 16 Jun 2005 3:31 am

Never.. and I feel like I'm missing something..bob

Herb Steiner · Post by **Herb Steiner** » 16 Jun 2005 3:57 am

I slant the bar fairly frequently on E9, either to get certain dominant-type chord fragments, or to get moving lines in the lower register.

I also slant the bar when sitting in on someone else's guitar and the knee levers are not where I want them, or they don't exist at all, like on a Maverick. I was playing a guitar like that at ISGC one day and Al Petty walked past and said "Herb, you're showing your age."

Bear in mind that I started on non-pedal steel where slant bar technique is not only common, but required. My first three pedal steels didn't have knee levers, and I only got my first lever in 1968 on a Sho-Bud.

When I'm playing non-pedal steel, like I have for the last 2-3 months with the Hank Williams play, I slant the bar approximately 30% of the time.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

Jack Stoner · Post by **Jack Stoner** » 16 Jun 2005 4:16 am

I started out on lap steel where bar slants are the rule. I still use them occasionally on both E9th and C6th.

Those that way don't do it on a pedal guitar, watch the Big E.

Billy Gilbert · Post by **Billy Gilbert** » 16 Jun 2005 4:40 am

Acouple weeks ago I sat about 10 feet from Herb Remington as he played a single neck E9. He seemed to use slants as much as he did the pedals.

Gary Spaeth · Post by **Gary Spaeth** » 16 Jun 2005 4:43 am

it sure separates the men from the boys. Kayton Roberts is my hero where bar slants are concerned. [This message was edited by Gary Spaeth on 16 June 2005 at 05:45 AM.]

Webb Kline · Post by **Webb Kline** » 16 Jun 2005 4:52 am

I see people coming out of bars slanted quite often.

john buffington · Post by **john buffington** » 16 Jun 2005 4:55 am

Often especially on E9th. Lloyd Green does them very tastefully as does Dickie Overby who also has total command of bar slants.
They sound great in some songs, adds a lot of feeling IMHO.
John Buffington

Howard Tate · Post by **Howard Tate** » 16 Jun 2005 5:13 am

It's very hard for me, but I've watched Pee Wee Whitewing and John Hughey do it. I don't think I'll tell them it's wrong.

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Howard, 'Les Paul Recording, Zum S12U, Vegas 400, Boss ME-5, Boss DM-3, DD-3, Sierra Session D-10
http://www.Charmedmusic.com

Ray Minich · Post by **Ray Minich** » 16 Jun 2005 5:36 am

Yep, not frequently, but a good move to have in the pocket. Handy for a change-up when needed. Comes from formative years at a 6-string with A tuning and no pedals. Try to play "Together Again" with no pedals and see how far you get without slantin' the bar.

Dave, TB's recording of "Bud's Bounce" is why I do this at all. (Ah, yes... 1963...)[This message was edited by Ray Minich on 16 June 2005 at 06:38 AM.]

Robert Thomas · Post by **Robert Thomas** » 16 Jun 2005 6:01 am

I started by using slants in the 40's and still do a lot of them, even after I started playing e-9 and c-6 PSG. I find them invaluable at times. For some I guess it is a problem, but for myself as I grew up on them and feel very fortunate to have that ability. They provide a whole new sound that is different then the pedal sound. It is well worth the effort to learn how. It might help if you get a six string steel and set down and force your self to learn how they can apply in your playing technique.

Keith Cordell · Post by **Keith Cordell** » 16 Jun 2005 6:23 am

I had convinced myself that I could avoid them by going to pedals; then I went to visit Bobbe Seymour... He played us a bit of a song using some beautiful slants. I don't think it's possible to sound like that with pedals. So now I get to spend a significant portion of my practice time figuring them out. I am not sure whether to thank Bobbe or go choke him...

Just kidding, Bobbe...

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MSA Classic 12, Peavey Delta Blues, Proco Rat, Robert Randolph - Shubb bars

Marty Pollard · Post by **Marty Pollard** » 16 Jun 2005 6:40 am

Yes, Lloyd DOES do them perfectly.
As I said, if you do them right, knock yourself out!

Lloyd's intonation is always perfect.
**** ******, OTOH, is probably a good example of why NOT to use slants. He's always had intonation problems.

I guess it's similar to playing stoned; perhaps some of you only THINK it sounds good...

Oh, and Together Again and Bud's Bounce w/out slants?
No prob.[This message was edited by Marty Pollard on 16 June 2005 at 07:41 AM.]

Larry Bell · Post by **Larry Bell** » 16 Jun 2005 7:23 am

I find it interesting that someone asks "who does this" and someone else, without fail, answers, "if you do you're a dumba$$" or "if you can't do it perfectly you shouldn't do it at all". That kind of judgmental nonsense has run many wonderful people away from this forum. (sorry, had to say it)

Yes, I use bar slants for the same reason that Buddy has mentioned several times: it ISN'T PERFECT and that little bit of dissonance or bar buzz can add a lot of life to a phrase. Particularly the move that preceded the F lever -- a backward slant on E9 raising 8 1/2 step while playing 6 and 5. It's impossible to get all three notes perfect, but it sounds really cool, IMHO.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

George Redmon · Post by **George Redmon** » 16 Jun 2005 7:52 am

i use forward slants "occasionally" mostly on
"Older" tunes...i like the Don Helms feel to some of the older tunes..on those occasions i actually feel that "Pedals" are out of place and inappropriate...here here for our non peddler friends...as my old music teacher use to tell me 40 years ago with a pointer in her hand.."Tastefully George....
Tastefully young man"! Whack!
"..if you can do'em...use'em"!

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Whitney Single 12 8FL & 5 KN,keyless, dual changers Extended C6th, Webb Amp, Line6 PodXT, Goodrich Curly Chalker Volume Pedal, Match Bro, BJS Bar..I was keyless....when keyless wasn't cool....

[This message was edited by George Redmon on 16 June 2005 at 08:56 AM.]

Gene Jones · Post by **Gene Jones** » 16 Jun 2005 8:02 am

*[This message was edited by Gene Jones on 25 October 2005 at 04:12 AM.]

Brandon Housewright · Post by **Brandon Housewright** » 16 Jun 2005 8:16 am

I love slants and reverses. Use them very often now. I went from a 12 string 3+4 to a 10 string 3+2 just lowering E's and using Bobbe's Z lever. You have to slant for lots of things and it sounds better to me.