Demographics of steel show attendees

Tony Palmer · From: St Augustine,FL

Who do you think make up the greater majority of people attending steel shows....steel players who come to listen or non-players who just enjoy steel music?
And, now a more complicated question...what songs do you think go over best (based on the answer to that question)? Good old standards that you would expect to hear (but run the risk of getting tired of) or new and challenging tunes that you could only hear at a steel show?

Gene Jones · From: Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)

Yes to all the above, with predominance depending on the location.

[This message was edited by Gene Jones on 14 May 2003 at 07:32 AM.]

JB Arnold · From: Longmont,Co,USA (deceased)

The people at steel shows generally run old and wide.

Music wise, St Louis is the most conservative-if it ain't a country shuffle, you start losing 'em. I saw people...a LOT of people given the event...walk out of Paul Franklin's Hall of Fame set making a great scene of their displeasure with his song selection. And being pretty loud about it too. Different is not tolerated at the ISGC.

Texas is better, but still you get folks who walk out of Joe Wright's set every year the minute the Rock and Roll starts. Joe does that on purpose, and has been known to point out the door to such folks.

I prefer new and different, but I'm in the clear and very ignored minority.

JB

------------------
Fulawka D-10 9&5
Fessenden D-10 8&8
Mullen Royal Precision D-10 8 & 5
"All in all, looking back, I'd have to say the best advice anyone ever gave me was 'Hands Up, Don't Move!"
www.johnbarnold.com/pedalsteel
www.buddycage.net

http://www.nrpsmusic.com/index.html

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

My observation:
People who go to steel shows want to hear 'The Way to Survive' at least once an hour (and then some will complain they heard it too often and others not often enough). Their average age is 55-60 and they were raised on big band music, beginning to give way to early R'n'R, but NOT TOO HEAVY -- distortion is out. Some are players who actually play gigs, but most are hobbyists or enthusiasts who enjoy the people and the music. In general they love swing, REAL country, and pretty tunes. Most don't take well to rock or jazz that's further out than big band and they won't hesitate to tell you so.

AND, they are the most wonderful, loyal people in the world -- but, unfortunately, a dying breed. Hopefully steel will find a new direction and a new voice that will allow growth, both in the variety of music associated with the instrument, and in the acceptance of the fact that steel is not pigeonholed within country, western, and Hawaiian music.

------------------
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 14 May 2003 at 08:17 AM.]

John Cox · From: Texas, USA

I think all of the above is why I quit going
to the shows,lack of younger players and
updated and modern material,I can't relate
to well to music I didn't grow up with and
pure country gets old after a while.

J.C.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

At every show I've been to in the past 25-30 years, the vast majority were steel players (probably 60-70%). The remaining 30-40% are wives of steelplayers, musicians (playing at the show), and other musicians (not playing at the show), in that order. There is also a small group (no more than 2-3%) who are not musicians at all...who just want to hear steel or country music.

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

Jim Cohen · From: Philadelphia, PA

John Cox above is showing us another door, marked "Enter". I think there's a large number of people out there who would enjoy steel guitar music, but who don't necessarily dig classic country and western swing, or even big band jazz. In fact, I meet them all the time, because I play a lot of 60s pop music (Beach Boys, Judy Collins, Linda Ronstadt) and folks all around the country really dig it, but it's a totally different demographic from those who attend "steel shows". In fact, I rather doubt we could get these folks to travel to a "steel show", because they are not afficionados per se, but they might show up at a local one if they knew they weren't gonna have to sit through a bunch of music they didn't care for.

Bottom line, I think, is that guys like Joe Wright need to be playing for newer audiences who already enjoy the kind of music he plays, not trying to "persuade" people, or sell them on his music.

Robert Randolph is another good example. He doesn't play "steel shows" and try to get the current audience to buy into what he's doing. He goes to audiences who already dig the kind of thing he does and just happens to pull it off with a steel guitar. 180 degrees different approach. And I guarantee ya, those tens of thousands of people in Robert's audience are probably never going to attend a "steel show" (unless it's a Sacred Steel show). Does it matter?

[This message was edited by Jim Cohen on 14 May 2003 at 09:02 AM.]

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

Talk about "stereotyping"?

Well why not? Man DOES (contrary to the false "politically correct" bunch) fall mostly into typical "types".

I shall add to the above which I find amazingly; but often painfully true.

Most (you are correct on the ages) who attend the shows, do not care for (but will tolerate up to a point), what some refer to as "jazz" (or R & R) on the PSG.

IE, 8 bars of "Lady of Spain", followed by 370 bars of the same rapid-fire jumble of disconnected, unmelodious and disjointed notes, by just about every musician on stage; that they just got done playing on the tune before that and on the tune before that, etc. Only to have the steel player finish it off with 8 bars of "Lady of Spain".

In a word, a solid 20 minutes of nothing which would have been much better received if they had followed the formats of greats like Lloyd Green or Jerry Byrd, etc.

There are a few exceptions to this. One is Buddy Emmons. When he plays "jazz", it IS jazz. Unfortunately, with most, it is simply jamming. Where most ANY note "fits" the chord structure at any fret at any time by any musician. Any semblance to the melody is usually, a coincidence.

When this happens (all to often), I look around and see "yawning", "half-mast" eyes or they are just looking around, talking; or simply getting up and leaving.

Thankfully, the above never seems to happen when BE or Doug Jernigan is dazzling us with their wizardry. ALL eyes are wide open upon them. This is the case with several others also. Sadly in all too many cases, this is not the case.

But then few can carry "THEIR" cases!

Oh well,

carl

Gene Jones · From: Oklahoma City, OK USA, (deceased)

True comments above.....for many in the audience, the selections played fall into the MEGO category. (My eyes glazeth over)

Even though these selections are usually always played with excellence, and I am one of their most appreciative audience, I find that because of the repetition I must "get away" for awhile before I can come back and appreciate the rest of the program. www.genejones.com

[This message was edited by Gene Jones on 14 May 2003 at 12:33 PM.]

Jerry Brightman · From: Ohio

Jim,

Well said!

Jerry
http://www.slidestation.com

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

Carl it is too often true that "jazz soloing" is navel gazing, and not the gradual variation and augmentation from the melody line.
And that can get boring.
The greats do play things drawn directly from the SONG and not just from the chords.

For the average country based fan of steel this can just stretch their ears too far.

So is it possible to put together a modern steel show? Featuring the new non-tradtional, but strong players, stretching but not breaking the bounderies of PSG.
And still get it to break even.

Or at least at the larger multi-day shows have a night dedicated to new PSG music, and promoted as such.
Rather than sprinkle the new players with the old style cats, all the show long an alienate all sides equally.

JB Arnold · From: Longmont,Co,USA (deceased)

Old Sid Ceasar Line

"Why does your Jazz band need a Radar Operator?"

"So we can be alerted instantly in case we might be approaching a Melody.."

heehee

------------------
Fulawka D-10 9&5
Fessenden D-10 8&8
Mullen Royal Precision D-10 8 & 5
"All in all, looking back, I'd have to say the best advice anyone ever gave me was 'Hands Up, Don't Move!"
www.johnbarnold.com/pedalsteel
www.buddycage.net

http://www.nrpsmusic.com/index.html

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

Good one JB. LOL

Why did the trombone player cross the road?
He had a gig.

Kurt Graber · From: Wichita, KS, USA

Ive been to 2 steel guitar shows in the last fifteen years. Joe Wright was at the last one which was last year. This is a funny guy, obviously most of you guys know this but if you haven't seen him, youre in for a big surprise. The guy, sings, he will make you laugh, he does rock licks that are unbelievable and he plays the standard "country tunes" with very tasty playing. I drove over 200 miles to see Hal Rugg, and John Hughey, although I love their playing, Joe broke the monotony of the same old songs, styles and actually entertained the crowd with a show. It might be a few years before I can make another convention, but hopefully Joe will still be there doing his thing.

C Dixon · From: Duluth, GA USA

Joe Wright is indeed and incredibly talented musician and showman.

This is WHY I featured him as the closing act on both Steel Guitar Extravaganza shows in Atlanta.

He is unbelievable when it comes to reading and entertaining an audience. They loved him.

So did I. May our precious Savior bless this man and all of you,

carl

Pete Burak · From: Portland, OR USA

Count me in for the first annual alt.pedalsteel expose' national tour!
I'm seeing it as a traveling road show type of format ala Neil Diamonds "Brother Love's Traveling Salvation Show".

Anyone remember these lyrics?...

We're gonna rope off an area
And put on a show
From the Canadian border
Down to Mexico
-John Prine

Hey, we can all dream!

...When I hit that lottery!... I'm gonna put a traveling steel show on the road!
-Pete Burak

...One idea... Picture as many steelers as it takes (and a drummer, I guess) doing "Good Vibrations" by the Beach Boys in full orchestration.

David L. Donald · From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

Yeah I hear 25 steel guitars replacing the Theramin
Oo we aaaah oo ah, Oo we aaaah oo ah...
good good.......

Terry Downs · From: Wylie, TX US

Well I am 43 and sometimes feel like the younger guy at the shows. But I think audiences should keep their eyes and mind open. The shows are a celebration of the instrument. I think all styles, nationalities, and ages should be supported.

Don't get me started on Joe Wright. He has great dominance at the Texas show. He is a great entertainer and player. He has the most unique show. You know the Opry was built on country humor and entertainment. Why would we let the roots of our country music foundation not apply to the steel guitar shows as well.

Ok.... While I am writing this I am asking myself why I don't like most of the current C&W (or what they call C&W). When I am 65 will I be worse? Probably. So if I walk out of a show at the St. Louis Convention year 2025 I'll try to remember this. If the good Lord's willin' and da creek don't dry, maybe I'll have my own opinion about what I hear at the 2025 show. I feel my mind closing with each year.

Best regards,
Terry

[This message was edited by Terry Downs on 16 May 2003 at 10:07 PM.]

Leroy Riggs · From: Looney Tunes, R.I.P.

Bob Watson · From: Champaign, Illinois, U.S.

I started going to the ISGC in 1975, the third one, and went every year up to the twelth one before I started missing one here and there. Every year I remember hearing Buddy Emmons play a new tune that wasn't a country or jazz standard. One year it was the theme to "All in the Family" another year it was " Take Me Out To The Ball Game". One year he played "Dixie" real slow and everyone there stood up. He has a knack for picking tunes that everyone is familiar with and adapting them to the steel. I would like to see more steel players at the ISGC do this. If it became a trend it might help attract a more ecclectic audience to steel shows.

[This message was edited by Bob Watson on 18 May 2003 at 02:30 AM.]

Tony Prior · From: Charlotte NC

First off, I like the shows and will go to and support all of the shows in the Carolina's area. It's always good to see old friends and meet new ones.

The music..? it appears that some of the comments above I am in full agreement with and I can say that this discussion has taken place even at some of the recent shows I have attended. Imagine that...

The catagory of people is pretty much in line with what is stated above .Primarily Steel players dragging their better halves or friends around with them. But thats not a bad thing.

The songs..yes they can get old..true, Way to Survive gets played often..I'm ok with that too..Good thing it's a great song !

At some recent shows that I have attended the mix of players was very good..entry level to Nashville PRO..

The only issue I would raise is that when I travel several hours to a Steel show I want to see and hear Steel players, not local bands with a Steel Player. I would rather see a new player chinking it out nervously than a local band playing a full set that has a Steel player in the band. I don't need to see a local band jamming for an hour or so and giving the Steel player 12 bars in the middle of each 5 minute tune. I play Bass in a band with a Steel player and I am the Steel player in another band..for me I don't want to drive several hours just to hear another band like the ones I play in..Trust me..the two I play in are more than enough for an earthling...and one has a great Steel Player in it..which it ain't me .( Joe Smith )

Those that are running the shows may just want to reconsider the line-up and keep it dominant Steel Guitar. I'm not saying that guest players , bands or singers should not be part of the show..they should..but they should not dominate a set. The shows in Saluda SC generally have Rob Parker in attendance and you don't want to miss him sing a few tunes.And there's always a few folks in the audience that can sing a pretty good tune and they sould....as a guest on the bandstand.

If a full local band is in the lineup, I would place them at the show opening or at the close of the show . The Steel Player in the band can do a set on their own in the show if they like as well..actually they should...

The shows are great fun and I am glad that they are around.

I have played at a few shows here in NC and always had a great time and got to hang out with some of the finest folks in the region, and not to say excellent players as well.I have not played the SC Saluda show but have been invited to jump in....I suppose I will soon..but the set list for me will dictate when I am ready for this show. Charts and song selection will be the determining factor. "Way To Survive" will not be on my set list...

support the local shows..just do it...

tp

Doyle Huff · From: Broken Arrow, OK USA

As some of you know, the Oklahoma Steel Guitar Assocation puts on steel show every year. Our show features a mix of the super pros such as John hughey, Tom Brumley, Joe Wright and some of the local players that have the nerve to get up and play. At times we have full local bands but they are the back up for the steel player not the other way around. Mooney always bring a group with him but he is the featured player. To make a long story short, at our show the steel player is the man, or lady. Gene Jones, are you coming up this tear?

Al Marcus · From: Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)

I concur with most everything said on the previous posts. It's all true.

However, it IS a steel guitar show and convention FOR steel players , whether new or old pros.

One thing though that was mentioned and I agree with. Some guys up there play the same songs every year.

I went to two shows in St.Louis in 1976 and 1977 and some players played the same set of songs in 1976 and then repeated the same set of songs in 1977.

I would hope that of all the great songs out there, they would pick a new set....al

Larry Bell · From: Englewood, Florida

Tony,
There's a variation of the 'band with a steel player' concept you mention that I think is more common. I play the Michigan show every year and always carry some musicians with me. I use a different group of players each year, sometimes including members of the house band -- with guys like Roy Rosetta and Ben Brogdon in the room I couldn't pass that up. This allows me more freedom in what to choose. As good as those guys are, and even with good charts, abrupt stops or strange modulations or non-standard tunes are difficult to pull off without some serious rehearsal time.

I agree that the last thing I want to hear at a show is somebodys band playing a bar set, but I don't hear folks do that very often. For my set, 2/3 of the tunes are instrumentals that feature steel (that's what folks are there for) and I'll sometimes sing one and someone else I bring (or Rob Parker) will sing one.

I don't play a lot of standards on shows and probably lose some 'points' with the audience, but what I like to do is play at least a tune or two that most folks have never heard on steel before. This year I did a Beatle tune from 'Rubber Soul' and 'Ashokan Farewell' from 'The Civil War' and I think people enjoyed it. Of course, following Don Helms and Herby Wallace is a challenge, no matter WHAT you play.

------------------
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

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