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Topic: Website hosting? |
David Pennybaker
From:
Conroe, TX USA
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Posted 10 Aug 2000 12:55 pm |
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quote:
It is NOT a coincidence.
OK. So that means specifying the "index.htm" forces the browser to open up the HTML code contained in that file.
If you don't specify "index.htm", you're still supposed to see the contents of that file (or "default.htm", depending on the server settings).
So, when you get the file listing instead, what exactly is going on? The server is making a mistake, and not sending you to index.htm ? What causes this?
Curiosity's got me hooked now.
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The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons
http://members.xoom.com/dpennybaker/index.htm
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John Fabian
From:
Mesquite, Texas USA * R.I.P.
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Posted 10 Aug 2000 1:57 pm
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It works for me. I did notice that your index page just loads slowly. There may be a small error in the FRAMES callout or the javascript causing this it's hard to tell but since there are no graphics it's probably in the code. Check your frame names and HTML code.
Jim, xoom.com will host your domain name (www.mycoolname.com)but I don't think they (or anyone else) will do it for free.
The free web space is usually available at something like: http://www.we_are_the_host.com/blah-blah-blah-etc.etc.adnauseum/finallyyourname.html [This message was edited by John Fabian on 10 August 2000 at 03:04 PM.] [This message was edited by b0b on 11 August 2000 at 03:03 PM.] |
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erik
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Posted 10 Aug 2000 3:52 pm
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Jim,
With some web hosting providers it is a good security measure to create a html page with the title "index.html". You may have jpgs or gifs in your files that you do not intend to share with the general public. However, a person could type in your address and then add /index.html and may be brought to an index of your images. I know it used to work this way at Angelfire. Don't know if it still does. |
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Bobby Lee
From:
Cloverdale, California, USA
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Posted 10 Aug 2000 4:21 pm
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Most web server software is configured to send the file named index.html when it receives a request for a directory name. Microsoft tried to change this name to default.htm, so we have two standards.
If there is no index.html (or default.htm on Microsoft servers), then you might actually see a directory listing. Clicking on files in that listing loads them into your web browser.
For example, there is a directory here at b0b.com that Jon Light was using for images for a little while. If you just point your browser at the directory www.b0b.com/jonlight you'll see all of the files he put there.
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 Bobby Lee - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs
Sierra Session S-12 (E9), Speedy West D-10 (E9, D6),
Sierra 8 Laptop (D13), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (D13, A6) |
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Jeff Agnew
From:
Dallas, TX
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Posted 10 Aug 2000 6:59 pm
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| Quote: |
| So, when you get the file listing instead, what exactly is going on? The server is making a mistake, and not sending you to index.htm ? What causes this? |
Not exactly a mistake, except on the part of the administrator. It's definitely a security hole.
As b0b mentioned, when server software receives a request for a URL resolving to a directory or containing a trailing slash (/), your browser displays the index.html file, or any other file specified in the server configuration. Apache is the most widely used server in the world and its default setting is to serve index.html. This Forum runs on Apache 1.3.9.
If you ISP allows directory indexing, you can thwart it by placing a file with the default name in your top-level directory. You may need to experiment because, as b0b mentioned, MS and other vendors don't necessarily use index.html.
So why should you care?
Because if I can go in and look at the server's file structure, I can do lots of nasty things. It tells me more than you would ever realize about potential ways to crack your system. If you don't run the server, you probably aren't overly concerned.
But as a web developer, you may also have working files, backup copies of critical material, or preview files not ready for viewing by the general public. Unless you have access privileges restricted (and you can't do so unless you run the server) I can view any file on your web site as long as I know it's location in the directory structure.
There are also times when you specifically want to enable a directory listing. For example, b0b might use Apache's mod_autoindex capability automatically to generate an HTML page containing a formatted list of files with custom icons showing file types, or an optional ReadMe file, or a "Permission Denied" error. The auto-generating feature would be a handy way to serve up a page of .wav or .mp3 files of steel tunes, for example. He could simply upload the file to the correct directory, or move, rename, and delete files without ever having to create an HTML page.
More information than you probably ever wanted to know ;-)
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David Pennybaker
From:
Conroe, TX USA
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Posted 10 Aug 2000 7:21 pm
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| Quote: |
| More information than you probably ever wanted to know |
Actually not.
I guess I'm mostly curious about why not including the "index.htm" in the URL link usually works just fine, but occasionally gives a directory listing instead. (I've always had the index.htm file in the directory)
As I've said before, I've seen this happen on several sites, not just ones on the free webservers.
I never thought I'd be discussing the intracacies of HTML on a steel-guitar forum, though.
BTW, thanks to Bob for hosting this site, and thank to everybody here for such informative information. I've learned a lot by just reading.
I "stumbled" onto this site when registering my site at http://www.countrymusictop50.com -- I had gotten the "bug" to try out a dobro and/or lapsteel (figuring pedal steel would be WAY beyond me) a year or so ago.
I'm an engineer, and have to struggle quite a bit with music. (Too left-brained, I guess). I understand the theory (at least somewhat, since it's basically mathematics), but that's just not the same as musical ability.
Anyway, I play piano/keyboard mainly. Had about 2 years of lessons 25 years ago or so. And have probably learned more just banging around, trying to apply some music theory and improvisation.
I used to play 5-string banjo for a while (years ago). Was OK, but that G-string will drive you nuts, you know? I never could fret the guitar well, and my fingers just don't do bar-chords.
Anyway, I've always loved the steel guitar, and have started to appreciate the dobro a lot more lately, too. So, I thought I'd give it a whirl.
My thanks to Ted Smith at Melobar for putting up with my newbie questions, and setting me up with a nice lapsteel and Melobro (which I'll get eventually -- no need to rush, Ted).
Well, I guess I drifted off topic enough for one message.
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The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons
http://members.xoom.com/dpennybaker/index.htm
[This message was edited by David Pennybaker on 10 August 2000 at 08:23 PM.] |
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Lowell Gilbertson
From:
Sarasota, Florida
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Posted 11 Aug 2000 9:44 am
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I do websites for a living. Here's my advice. Do not use FrontPage. Period. You will run into too many deadends. I use something called Homesite from Allaire that will help you by showing you the options for each tag you are using and to a certain extent will generate code for you, but you should know what this code does so you can intelligently alter it.
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Sho-Bud SuperPro
1976 Peavey Session 400 |
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Jim Cohen
From:
Philadelphia, PA
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Posted 11 Aug 2000 11:47 am
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Lowell, thanks for your comment about Frontpage. Could you be more specific, please? What do you mean by "deadends"? Many others seem to like Frontpage well enough, so I wonder if the problems only surface for the "advanced" user, trying to do specialty or tricky things? Or...?
Also, if I were to create the site with Frontpage and later ran into such problems, could I then switch over to another program like Homesite, or would I have to start all over with Homesite?
Thanks,
Jim |
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Jeff Agnew
From:
Dallas, TX
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Posted 11 Aug 2000 12:01 pm
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quote:
I guess I'm mostly curious about why not including the "index.htm" in the URL link usually works just fine, but occasionally gives a directory
listing instead. (I've always had the index.htm file in the directory)
David,
I guess I'm confused whether you're referring to web sites in general or a particular site on which your files were placed.
If the former, you'll get a directory listing if the web server is configured to display the index.html file when it exists. If that file isn't present in the default directory, the server displays a file listing. Using this scenario, these two URLs will display exactly the same thing:
- http://www.mySite.com/
- http://www.mySite.com/index.html
In both cases you'll get a directory listing because there isn't an index.html file on the server. That is, unless the server configuration has turned off or restricted the indexing feature.
Probably as clear as mud now. Jim's no doubt sorry he started this topic. Think I'll shut up...
[This message was edited by Jeff Agnew on 11 August 2000 at 01:03 PM.] |
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David Pennybaker
From:
Conroe, TX USA
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Posted 11 Aug 2000 12:41 pm
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| Quote: |
| I guess I'm confused whether you're referring to web sites in general or a particular site on which your files were placed. |
Probably because I've been somewhat unclear, and because I'm talking about BOTH my website AND websites in general.
Let me try to be more clear: my website has always had the "index.htm" file ever since I created it.
Up until a month or so again, I had always accessed it by typing http://members.xoom.com/dpennybaker
and it always worked correctly.
Then, quite suddenly, typing that URL would SOMETIMES (not always) give a directory listing. But most of the time it would still work correctly.
I then started always using the full URL http://members.xoom.com/dpennbaker/index.htm
which hasn't failed me yet.
I have had similar experiences with other websites, too. I never bothered to check to see if they were using "index.htm", though. But, they would almost always show the website, only occasionally giving a directory listing. A hypothetical example: typing http://www.xyz.com
would show me the website on Jan 1 - Sep 15. On Sep 16, it would give a directory listing instead. Then, from Sep 17 forward, it would work normally (showing the website).
It would appear to me that this could only be caused by "index.htm" not being found by the server. Obviously, if it's not present it won't find it. But it also appears that sometimes, even if it is present, the server just isn't able to locate it for some reason.
| Quote: |
| Jim's no doubt sorry he started this topic. |
Probably just sorry that I ever got involved in it. 
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The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons
http://members.xoom.com/dpennybaker/index.htm
[This message was edited by David Pennybaker on 11 August 2000 at 01:41 PM.] |
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Jeff Agnew
From:
Dallas, TX
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Posted 14 Aug 2000 10:54 am
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David,
Dunno. I tried your links and the first timed out while the second gave me a 404 error.
As for why your page gets the directory/no directory roulette, I'm afraid I can't answer that either. It's Xoom's problem but I don't know specifically what that might be. Except that they're using a really old version of Apache (1.2.5).
Sorry we couldn't nail down the problem. |
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David Pennybaker
From:
Conroe, TX USA
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Posted 14 Aug 2000 11:06 am
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| Quote: |
| /while the second gave me a 404 error |
OOPS -- that's because I mistyped it (left out the "y"). Use the link in my signature.
Concerning the time-outs: yeah, sometimes the site is pretty slow. But I guess I can't complain too much, since it's free.
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The Unofficial Photographer of The Wilkinsons
http://members.xoom.com/dpennybaker/index.htm
[This message was edited by David Pennybaker on 14 August 2000 at 12:06 PM.] |
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