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Topic: ? for Keith Hilton |
Bob Brocius
From:
Lake Katrine, NY USA Don't blink, you'll miss it.!
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Posted 12 Jan 2001 12:44 pm |
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I'm posting here so that any others that have the same problem may see your answer.
Keith, The directions for your Volume Pedal say to go directly from the guitar to the pedal input and I can add anything after that, that I want to. Well, try this:
Guitar -> Pedal -> Steel Driver III -> amp
The tone control on the SD III has no effect, high tone constant. But if I do this:
Guitar -> Steel Driver III -> Pedal -> amp
The tone control works as it should.
Can this be explained and is the 2nd configuration doing any damage to the pedal?
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Bobby Brocius, JCH D-10, 9x7
Real Soon to be a ZumThing Picker, D-10, 8x8[This message was edited by Bob Brocius on 12 January 2001 at 12:50 PM.] |
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Steve Feldman
From:
Central MA USA
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Posted 12 Jan 2001 2:05 pm
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| This is interesting. Isn't running the SDIII defeating the purpose of the Hilton pedal - or, to say it another way, isn't it redundant? Is there a difference with the SDIII and the Hilton vs. Hilton alone? |
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Jim Smith
From:
Midlothian, TX, USA
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Posted 12 Jan 2001 2:24 pm
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| I would guess that you'd get the same results with a regular volume pedal. A steel driver needs a strong signal to do it's magic, same as a fuzz tone. |
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Keith Hilton
From:
248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721
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Posted 12 Jan 2001 8:36 pm
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Bob, thanks for using my pedal! Let me try and answer your questions; I don't know what a Steel Driver III is, or what it does. I assume that it is a pre-amp,tone control, and fuzz effect all in one unit. My pedal instructions do say, "Go directly from the guitar to the pedal." Although this is usually the best way to hookup, there are always exceptions. Many devices are designed to "only" accept instrument level signals. I assume the Steel Driver III is designed to only accept pickup, low level-instrument level signals. Instrument level signals being a low voltage signal from a passive pickup. For example, a Webb Steel Guitar amp has a low and high input. You will distort the Webb amp if you feed a pre-amped signal into the instrument level input. A pre-amped signal is what is known in the industry as a line level signal. This is a stronger signal of about 1 volt. I would suppose that the Steel Driver III was designed to only accept a instrument level signal on the input. I'm certain the output of the Steel Driver III is a line level signal. On the other hand, my pedal will work with "any" situation. You can feed my pedal a instrument level signal, "or" , a line level signal and it will work great either way.
Feeding from Guitar>Steel Driver III>Pedal>amp will not hurt my pedal. The problem that "usually" causes trouble is too many pre-amps in line creating too much gain. Some people add a lot more stuff in line before signal gets to the amp. Some people do not understand that some devices have more than one gain control. For example the Peavey ProFexII has a gain control in front, one in the back, and gain controls on the programs. Some simple, cheap, floor stomp box effects have fixed gain controls. With these devices you have gain and you can not control signal strength. Let me explain it in simple terms: Suppose you had 10 cans of gas. Suppose you started thowing cans of gas on a fire. The more cans of gas you throw on the fire, the bigger the fire gets. At some point the fire gets out of control. Suppose the fire is your insturment signal,the cans of gas are powered music devices that create gain. When the fire gets out of control, the music signal is too strong and you go into distortion. A "FUZZ" effect is actually a signal out of control, gone into distortion, that you are able to control, somewhat, into a usable effect. Today, musicians have many things in line, each one making the signal stronger. My pedal can not possibly be the cause "of any" over driven signal. Why? Because there is a signal strength-volume-control on the bottom of the pedal. The signal can be turned down, down, down even to off. This is totally different than feeding a device that is "only" designed to accept accept a weak signal from a pickup. Any strong pre-amped signal will cause the device designed for a very weak signal to not work as designed.
It is redundant to pre-amp a pre-amp, unless the unit containing the pre-amp contains some desired effect. In this case the Steel Driver III has a desired effect, a Fuzz. It is perfectly OK to run the Steel Driver III to my pedal. The only problem that could exist is having to turn down signal strength if you put other pre-amps in line. Remember, my pedal can not possible be the cause of a over driven signal, because you can turn it real low, even to off.
My pedal has the same protective devices built in as a Peavey Amplifier. I hope this information helps.
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Al Marcus
From:
Cedar Springs,MI USA (deceased)
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Posted 12 Jan 2001 9:03 pm
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| Hi Keith.- Don't ever send one of your pedals out with that little screw turned way down. One would tend to think there was not enough power......al |
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Bob Brocius
From:
Lake Katrine, NY USA Don't blink, you'll miss it.!
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Posted 13 Jan 2001 10:20 am
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Thanks Keith. Your reply was very informative to me and maybe some others also. I will tweet some of the things you suggested and will eventually get it right. My complete setup is:
Guitar->SD-III->Hilton Pedal->ProFexII->2 Nashville 400s.
Steve, to respond to your concern, in addition to being a Fuzz unit, in normal mode, the SG-III has both Volume & Tone controls. They work, (at least for me), as Master Controls, (control both amps), and they are easy to reach since the SD-III clips onto the guitar leg. I normally run both around the half way position and this allows me to make a quick adjustment without having to get up and go back to the amps. This is especially useful when I change programs on the ProFexII. Balancing the output from program to program on the ProFex is a real chore sometimes.
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Bobby Brocius, JCH D-10, 9x7
Real Soon to be a ZumThing Picker, D-10, 8x8
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Steve Feldman
From:
Central MA USA
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Posted 13 Jan 2001 10:51 am
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| Quote: |
| ...in normal mode, the SG-III has both Volume & Tone controls... |
I hear you, Bob. I don't have a SDIII OR a Hilton pedal, but I DO use a Goodrich Matchbox 7A with my Emmons PP and Emmons vol pedal. So I like having vol/tone(gain) controls for this particular setup, but I still wonder what the advantage of having a vol/tone control (your SDIII) in-line with the Hilton pedal might be, especially when one of the big arguments in favor of the Hilton is that it does NOT modify the signal coming from the guitar. Again, doesn't the SDIII defeat the purpose of the Hilton pedal - or am I missing something here as ususal?
Yours in confusion,
Steve
OK - I now see one thing you mentioned - that is the ability to make some tone adjustment without running back to the amp(s).
[This message was edited by Steve Feldman on 13 January 2001 at 10:55 AM.] |
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Jack Stoner
From:
Kansas City, MO
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Posted 13 Jan 2001 11:51 am
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I can fix the problem very easily. Get a Transtube Fex to replace the Profex II and you can do away with the SDII. The Transtube Fex has an analog preamp with "front panel" input/output gain and EQ controls. 
I set my TT Fex and MosValve 500 power amp beside me in a rack case. Real easy to change programs or tweak the EQ or gain.
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Keith Hilton
From:
248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721
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Posted 13 Jan 2001 11:54 am
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| Bob, I had a feeling there was something else between my pedal and the amp, as there usually is. The way you are hooked up should work great. The only thing you will have to be concerned with, is adjusting all the gain controls, to get the perfect sound combination. Everything you have in line creates gain and has controls on it. With a little experimenting with gain controls, you should get a combination that sounds great. Just remember, if your signal gets too strong, you will get distortion. That's when you need to turn gains down. |
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Bob Brocius
From:
Lake Katrine, NY USA Don't blink, you'll miss it.!
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Posted 13 Jan 2001 12:37 pm
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Thanks again Keith. That is exactly what was happening, destortion at higher volumes. I'm now is the process of dropping the gain on evrything that is in line. I agree with you that this should work. Studied electronics years ago so this is not totally unknown to me. But as usual, no matter how much you know, someone else can always teach you something if you will listen and I do listen. Also, I'm very thankful for this forum and all the help available here. Thanks to all that are inputting here. There is no such thing as a dumb remark so keep your ideas coming.
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Bobby Brocius, JCH D-10, 9x7
Real Soon to be a ZumThing Picker, D-10, 8x8
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Dave Burton
From:
Richland,Wa. USA
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Posted 14 Jan 2001 7:19 pm
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| Hi Keith, I am expecting one of your pedals to be coming soon and would like to ask should I hook it up like I do my Goodrich,or just direct to the guitar? On my Goodrich I run a cable from pedal in and one to pedal out and one from the guitar to the amp, would that make any differance in tone or should I eliminate one cable? Thanks Dave |
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Keith Hilton
From:
248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721
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Posted 14 Jan 2001 8:21 pm
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Thanks for using my pedal Dave! I presume you are using the Peavey 3 chord hookup method? If not what method are you using? The Peavey 3 cord hookup method pre-amps the signal before it reaches the pedal.
This is a good method of hooking up, if you are using a old pot pedal. It prevents some of the nasty things a pot does to a low level pickup signal. The first stage of my pedal contains a pre-amp, which eliminates the need to have 3 cords strung across the floor. It is redundant to pre-amp a pre-amp. Therefore, nothing is gained by using the pre-amp in the Peavey amp when using my pedal. As I said, I "presume" this is the way you are hooking up? Any method will work, just as long as you don't overdrive the signal with too many pre-amps in line. Today musicians have so much gear "in-line" that it becomes easy to overdrive a signal. Every powered device has a pre-amp in it, and every pre-amp creates gain unless controlled.
With my pedal, I advise to go to from the guitar to the pedal first. Then do anything you want downstream. Hope this helps. |
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Dave Burton
From:
Richland,Wa. USA
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Posted 15 Jan 2001 11:22 am
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| Thanks Keith, yes I do use the 3 cord set up so it is good news to hear I don't have to do that any more. To me the simpler the better. Thanks for your answer. Dave |
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