New Speaker Alternative

Glenn Suchan · From: Austin, Texas

Lately there has been numerous posts regarding speaker choice for amps. The responses were exclusively about various 12" and 15" speaker choices for open back style combo amps (mostly Fender "Twins" and Peavey "400" series amplifiers).

Several months ago I posted a remark wondering why no manufacturers have progressed beyond the open back speaker enclosure (a design that dates back to the 30's and is outdated as far as modern technology is concerned). I suspected it was for reasons of cost and the fact that an open enclosure does not require a specific sized (tuned) cabinet to house the speaker(s). This would allow the manufacturers flexibility in designing combo amp size and shape.

I feel that musicians have come to accept the characteristic sound of open back combo amps without ever realizing the potential of a well designed, tuned speaker cabinet, as an integeral part of the combo amp design.

For a while a thought about building such a cabinet to use as an alternative to the speaker in my "Nashville 400". But I didn't know what kind of speaker elements to employ and was looking into my options. Then, I received my copy of Steel Guitar World magazine (Vol. 7, Issue 40) May 1999. On page 53 there is an advertisement/article on a new speaker design by Paul Graupp. His design incorporates eight 5", 50-watt speakers in a single cabinet. The speakers come with a choice of paper cones, or two types of aluminum cones. The speakers are given model names as follows A6/C6400W; E9250W, and E9400W. The A6/C6400W is a paper cone design rated at 400 watts/4 ohms; E9250W is an aluminum cone design rated at 250 watts/4 ohms; E9400W is an aluminum cone design rated at 400 watts/4 ohms. The efficiency range of these speakers is quite impressive. 6.25Hz to 17,000Hz for the E9400W.

The article mentioned that Bud Carter, Maurice Anderson and Bobbe Seymour all have had opportunities to use these speakers. Bobbe sells them at Steel Guitar Nashville. So, I contacted Bud Carter to ask his opinion of them. He said he's currently using two (model A6/C6400W, I believe) and really likes them. He told me they sound very good and they are "real loud so be careful" if I ever use them.

After much consternation, I decided to order one model E9400W from Bobbe Seymour. It arrived yesterday. It is a totally closed back (infinite baffle) design. The construction is solid with a crisp, uncluttered look to it. I promptly disconnected the Black Widow 15" in the Nashville 400 and connected the E9400W using the heavy-gauge cable (optional) that came with it.

My current rig consists of a Sierra S14 E9/B6 into an Evans ESPA preamp, into a Lexicon MPX100, into the poweramp section of the Nashville 400 and that is the configuration I connected the E9400W speaker cabinet to.

I spent several hours "A/B"ing it with the OEM speaker in the Nashville 400 and I find that the E9400W has a very "natural" (unforced) sound. As though the speakers are not being pushed to their limits at any time. Tonal separation is far superior to the 15" Black Widow (BW) without the (unknown to me until now) "honkiness" I had become accustomed to with the 15" BW. The best way I can describe the difference is to say that although the 15" BW is a very loud and reliable performer, it's characteristic sound is strong in low-mid and mid range and not as well defined in the low, upper-mid, and upper ranges. By comparison I found no discernible differences in output or tonal clarity in all of these ranges with the E9400W. Overall, a very balanced output. And, as Bud Carter says, it is LOUD!. Every bit as loud as the 15" BW. Now, I must clarify, these observations were made using my ears and not any electronic test equipment.

Although I've only played this speaker cabinet in my home, I'll get a chance to put it through it's paces this weekend. I'll be playing on Friday and Saturday at a rodeo and be setting up in an outdoor pavillion.

I'll let you all know what I think of this speaker system after that test.

In the meantime....
Keep on pickin'!
Glenn

Joe E · From: Houston Texas

I always try to post on topics of speakers. As a former speaker mfg co owner, I have seen, and heard hundreds of great cabinets. One thing that blows my mind is the over use of BIG speakers. A 15" speaker is really not a very pretty sounding speaker. But it can handle the low freq's. But in fact the cone is so big, it takes a ton to get it moving. And the ultimate pay off is a loss in the upper mids and all high freq's.

A single cab with mulitple smaller speakers is so much more effieceint. And with the right combonation of cab and speakers will reproduce the low freq's much better. The small speakers sound so much tighter. Every note is clear. The bigger speakers are more of a presence and not so definable.

EAW has a sub woofer out now that has 2 8" speakers and is about the best sounding sub I've ever heard. Tight, deep, and incrediable.

Finally, the problem with the little speakers is: They have no real throw. It's very hard to fill a club with sound from 6 or 8" speakers. So you turn up the volume. (I'm not so sure thats a good fix). It would be almost imposible to have a stadium system using the smaller speakers.

------------------
Joe

"76" Fender Artist S-10

Bob Kagy · From: Lafayette, CO USA

Glenn, thanks for taking the trouble to give us a long, informative post on your opinion of the Graupp speaker system; I saw the article and wondered what they might sound like.

Joe, the comments on open speaker cab design and single 15's make a lot of sense to me.

Looking forward to the upcoming comments.

Jerry Gleason · From: Eugene, Oregon, USA

This is a very interesting thread. The idea of eight 5" speakers is from the Bose 802 PA speaker, which evolved from the Bose 901 hi-fi speakers from a few years back. The concept itself isn't new, I saw an article in Popular Science from about 1960 on how to built a hi-fi speaker using 24 cheap six inch speakers.

Lately, I've been wondering how a Bose 802 would work as a steel guitar speaker. I know a few upright bass players that really like them for their smoothness and power handling ability. The idea of a number of small speakers, each capable of a full range of the audio spectrum makes good sense. I'm not sure I buy the quoted specs of the Graupp speaker, especially the 6.25 Hz on the low end. I'd like to see some lab tests on that....

In any case, the concept is interesting. The Bose 802's are attractive, because they are light, rugged, and I know they sound good in pa and bass applications, so why not steel guitar? The drawback is that they're quite expensive, and require a lot of power to drive them. I'd like to know more about the Graupp product. Size, weight, price, etc. Glenn, could you elaborate, or is there a website to get some information from?

Glenn Suchan · From: Austin, Texas

Jerry,

As I mentioned earlier, my initial impression of the performance was subjective, using only my ears. I have no way of verifing the 6.25 Hz spec. Additionally, the human ear cannot hear frequencies much lower than 30 Hz. They may be felt, however.

I'm glad you've asked about the dimensional specs and price. I ment to include them previously and forgot.

The cabinet is 18"W x 16.5"H x 11.5"D and weighs approximately 33 lbs.

Bobbe's price to me was $297 for the cabinet.

As I said earlier, I'll let the forum know how it performs after this weekend's outdoors gig.

Keep on pickin'!
Glenn

Jerry Gleason · From: Eugene, Oregon, USA

Thanks, Glenn! Looking forward to your follow-up review.

Steve Feldman · From: Central MA USA

Glen - What made you go with the Al cone instead of the paper?

Mike Tatro · From: Oregon, USA

Glenn-

Small point... I believe open backed cabs (not sealed cabs) are considered "infinite baffle" enclosures.

This is because in an open back cab, the baffle is effectively infinite by virtue of the fact that all the out of phase sound off the back of the cone escapes out the back of the open back cab. None of this out of phase energy is allowed to interact with the in-phase energy coming off the front of the speaker cone.

It's been a few years since I designed cabs, but I believe the book I was using used those terms that way.

Glenn Suchan · From: Austin, Texas

Steve,

My choice of the E9400W was twofold.

1) The aluminum cone (without corrugations) provided the widest frequency response.

2) The power rating on this cabinet (400 watts) was of a level I was looking for.

The paper cone cabinet as advertised, is about 2KHz less on the top end. And the other aluminum cone (with corrugations) cabinet is rated at 250 watts.

Incidently, I have not come to any conclusions about the speaker system yet. I'm still applying the cabinet to different situations.

Stay tuned for the conclusion

Mike, You're probably right on the term. I ment to convey the "sealed cabinet"design. Thanks!

Keep on pickin'!
Glenn

[This message was edited by Glenn Suchan on 31 March 2000 at 11:42 AM.]

Chuck Hall · From: Warner Robins, Ga, USA

Glenn

Did you ever post the conclusion of the sound after your gig?

Chuck

------------------
MCI D10 8/4 and ZumSteel S10
Nashville 400

Glenn Suchan · From: Austin, Texas

Chuck,

Thank-you for asking. No I haven't reported back to the forum about my results. The reason is I didn't know how to state the results without the possibility of misunderstandings. I didn't want negative repercussions to affect the builder or the sellers of these speakers. Since you have asked, I'll take my chances and "plunge" into my critique.

But, before I tell all, let me say this on behalf of the speakers. They are well constructed and perform to their fullest capabilites.

I used one cabinet. A model E9400W. As stated before, the response was very good in my practice room (see my previous post in this topic). My hope was to have the same response in large venue applications. This did not come to pass.

Joe E's previous post, indicates the problem with small-cone speaker designs is that they don't "throw" sound very far. This is the exact situation I found with the E9400W cabinet. At the outdoor rodeo event and at several subsequent club dates (of various sizes) the Black Widow speaker in my Peavey Nashville 400 outperformed this speaker cabinet's ablility to broadcast sound at nominal preamp levels. In esscence, the sound from the E9400W cabinet was getting buried amid the sounds coming from the rest of the amplified instruments and PA systems. I have since gone back to using the Black Widow speaker exclusively.

Let me say in defense of the cabinet, what could be heard did sound good. If I made my living doing studio or very low volume "lounge" type performances, this cabinet would be the answer.

Keep on pickin'!
Glenn

Cliff Swanson · From: Raleigh, NC

How about putting a mic in front of the cabinet and sending to the PA for the volume required by the venue?

cat

Bobby Lee · From: Cloverdale, California, USA

I like open backed cabinets because they aren't as directional. The sound from the back of the cabinet bounces against the wall behind, eventually adding more space to the sound image out front.

I've used tuned cabinets and open backed ones. Adding a tuned cabinet for tighter bass is fine, but I really do prefer the open back designs for the mid and high frequencies.

Glenn Suchan · From: Austin, Texas

Hi Cliff,

Aside from the mic in front of the cabinet, in some cases, I would also need a monitor to hear myself as the sound of the cabinet was being covered by the ambient sound level on stage. Instead of simplfying my performance rig it would become more complex and still might not sound any better. In that situation, it would be more simple to just go direct into the PA board and not even use an amp.

Thanks for the suggestion, tho.

Keep on pickin'!
Glenn

Bob Kagy · From: Lafayette, CO USA

The outcome was surprising to me; imagination predicted otherwise. So did arithmetic - I was always under the impression that the total number of square inches of speaker cone(s) were the key. Now the word 'throw' takes on meaning.

Thanks for the closure on this Glenn.

Donny Hinson · From: Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.

Good information here...thanks Glenn. I had expected that you would find the small speakers lacking in "throw", as you call it. The "cone excursion" is what gets large amounts of air moving to the other side of the venue. And a big cone moves a lot of air "a lot"! (Intended redundancy!) Multiple small cones can get a lot of air moving, but they just don't move it as much...hence the sound fades fast. The best analogy I could give is to take 2 handfulls of rocks, and throw them in the water...and watch the splash and resultant waves. Now try it with one brick that weighs the same as both handfulls of rocks...bigger splash and bigger waves!

They been tellin' us that for years, haven't they? Size really does matter!

Forum Index > Electronics		Next oldest topic :: Next newest topic

All times are GMT - 8 Hours	Jump to: