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Topic: Mesa/Boogie Fifty/Fifty - WOW! |
Bobby Lee
From:
Cloverdale, California, USA
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Posted 14 May 2000 11:27 am |
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I just did my first gig with a Mesa/Boogie Fifty/Fifty power amp last night, and it sounded great! I used a Peavey TubeFex preamp, and two 8 ohm 15" JBL speakers. The bass response was incredible. Very loud, very smooth, very tight!
The amp has a separate volume and presence control for each side. I ran the presence on five and the volume on about 7. I was playing outdoors in a redwood grove, and the speakers were sitting on the ground. I expected to have to push the amp, but discovered to my delight that I had plenty of power in reserve.
This amp has a pair of 6L6 output tubes for each channel. I bought it used, but the previous owner (Tommy Alexander) took such good care of it that it's like new. Mesa has been making this amp for over a decade. I opened it up and found a very simple, servicable design, and solid construction. I think this amp will last forever.
Thumbs up for the Mesa/Boogie Fifty/Fifty!
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 Bobby Lee quasar@b0b.com gigs CDs
Sierra Session S-12 (E9), Speedy West D-10 (E9, D6),
Sierra S-8 Laptop (D13), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (D13, A6) |
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Len Amaral
From:
Rehoboth,MA 02769
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Posted 15 May 2000 5:59 am
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Hi bOb:
Is the Mesa 50/50 power amp 50 watts per side @ 8ohms or 4 ohms? Also, there seems to be a difference in power ratings with regrad to tube power amps compared to transistor power amps. A 50 watt transistor power amp would not have the drive to accommodate a steel guitar. I wonder how this applies to the different amps if a watt is a watt?
Len Amaral |
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Dan Tyack
From:
Olympia, WA USA
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Posted 15 May 2000 7:16 am
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I play through a 50 watt a side tube power amp, as well (the VHT 2150). It has plenty of power for most gigs. This amp uses either 6L6 tubes or EL34s. Right now I am using EL34s and I *love* the sound. Note that this isn't going to sound as 'clean' or as 'transparent' as a high power transistor amp. I also find that you can get distortion when using big chord voicings at very high volume. But the sound is a killer. You get a roundness and body and punch for single note playing that I haven't been able to duplicate using transistor amps. I am a convert! I also have a VHT amp with 100 watts a side that is totally clean at any volume I would care to play at (2 KT-88 tubes per side), but I prefer the sound of the lower power amp, especially for blues gigs.
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www.tyacktunes.com |
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Bobby Lee
From:
Cloverdale, California, USA
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Posted 15 May 2000 7:46 am
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I think it's 50 watts per side into 8 ohms, probably a bit more into 4 ohms.
With a solid state amp, when you reach the rated power the waveform clips abruptly with a hard edge. This gives a very ugly distortion sound. You need to have enough power so that you never hit that point.
By contrast, when a tube amp reaches its rated power the waveform starts to gently flatten. The effect is actually very musical. If you push it really hard you get close to a square wave, but with rounded edges. This is the tone that blues players die for.
Generally speaking, a tube amp with half the wattage of a solid state amp will deliver the same performance. But beyond that, Mesa tends to underrate their amps. They use the level at which a sine wave starts to flatten as their benchmark. They test it against a resistive load instead of a speaker, because you can't stand in the same room as a standing sine wave pushing 50 watts!
I think that Mesa's ratings are about 40% of an equivalent solid state amp's rating. This 50 watts "feels" like about 125 watts per channel of solid state power. But beyond that, at dance band volumes the low end sounds "rounder" than most solid state amps I've played through, including my Webb which is rated at 225 watts.
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Bobby Lee quasar@b0b.com gigs CDs
Sierra Session S-12 (E9), Speedy West D-10 (E9, D6),
Sierra S-8 Laptop (D13), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (D13, A6) |
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Greg Derksen
From:
Alberta, Canada
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Posted 15 May 2000 7:55 am
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| Dan or Bobby, would you say the natural EQ on the 6L6 has less midrange than the EL34. Curious! Greg |
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Bobby Lee
From:
Cloverdale, California, USA
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Posted 15 May 2000 8:24 am
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In properly designed power amps, you shouldn't notice any EQ at all. But then guitar amps aren't "properly designed". 
You're probably right that most EL34-based amps have more midrange. Traditionally, EL34/EL84 amps have been aimed more at rock/metal players and 6L6/6V6 amps have targeted country/blues players. The metal guys use more midrange.
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Bobby Lee quasar@b0b.com gigs CDs
Sierra Session S-12 (E9), Speedy West D-10 (E9, D6),
Sierra S-8 Laptop (D13), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (D13, A6) |
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Dan Tyack
From:
Olympia, WA USA
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Posted 15 May 2000 10:42 am
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In general, 6L6 tubes and EL34s put out about the same amount of power, but 6L6s stay cleaner longer in the power curve, then (IMHO) they sound a bit more brittle when distorting. EL34s distort a little earlier, but have a bit softer distortion. The EL 34s do have a bit more in the lower midrange than 6L6s. I've never liked Marshall amps that much (which have the 'classic' EL34 sound), but I love this VHT amp to death with the EL34s. I suppose I should try it with a 6L6, but I love it so much I don't want to change anything. Maybe I'll change just one side. These days I am using one speaker cabinet (stereo), with a JBL E120 and two 10" THD speakers (manufactured by Celestion).
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www.tyacktunes.com |
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Dan Tyack
From:
Olympia, WA USA
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Posted 15 May 2000 10:44 am
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Another tube amp to try is the Peavey Classic 50/50. You can pick them up pretty cheap, and they sound good.
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www.tyacktunes.com |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 15 May 2000 7:07 pm
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Bobby,
You gotta check out the VHT 2/90/2 !
Its unbelievable for steel. I'll try to drag mine out your way if I get the chance. I may be in Northern California in July.
Bob
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Franklin D-10
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ToneJunkie
From:
Columbia, MD, USA
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Posted 17 May 2000 5:40 pm
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I can't say enough nice things about Mesa wattage. I use a Simul-Class 2:90 and it has more headroom and more juice than any amp I've ever played through. Sweet, sweet tone and gobs of kick. These amps are built like tanks and will probably outlive most of us. I hate having to pick it up, though...
Cheers all, Robert |
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Steve Feldman
From:
Central MA USA
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Posted 17 May 2000 6:15 pm
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| What kind of preamp are all of y'all using? I'm still new at this rack stuff, but this makes a huge difference in the quality of the sound you're getting with any given amp, no? I've A/Bd 4 different preamps with my rack over the last few months and I find a LOT of difference (and also one preamp that I love...). |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 17 May 2000 10:30 pm
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Steve,
I use a 70's Alembic F2-B. I have checked out a bunch of pre amps. I thought the Evans was real nice. The Boogie studio pre works for alot of people.
The only thing that doesn't work for me are the multi fx with pre amp units. To much stuff inbetween my fingers and the air I'm trying to move.
Bob
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Franklin D-10
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Dan Tyack
From:
Olympia, WA USA
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Posted 18 May 2000 5:34 am
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Surprisingly, I have found that the power amp makes more difference than the preamp, in terms of clean sounds. For overdriven sounds I use a little THD amp head. For clean sounds I have been using either my GX-700 or my Lexicon MPX-G2. The tube power amp really warms up the digital preamps. But I did use my Kern tube bass preamp the other day for a country gig, and I thought I had died and gone to heaven. The combination of the tube power amp and a transistor pre does work pretty well.
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www.tyacktunes.com |
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Greg Derksen
From:
Alberta, Canada
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Posted 18 May 2000 6:35 am
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I have to agree with Dan, the power amp
has maybe more to do with the sound, My
profex II going into a tube power amp is a
different animal all together. I think its
a cool combination for clean tone, you get
the clean digital sound, going into a big
warm tube power base.
Contrasts with equipment work
well, thin ( Digital) into Fat (Tube) or
vice versa. Sometimes for a clean steel
sound, I think tube into tube is just a little wild sounding, and makes cetain notes
or frequencies jump out. It seems there are
trade offs, its sure fun searching though!
Greg
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Steve Feldman
From:
Central MA USA
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Posted 18 May 2000 7:02 am
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Well, I have to admit that you've got my curiosity picqued. I've got a Tubeworks preamp going through a MosValve 1500 and I really love it. Like I said, I now have a fair amount of experience with several popular preamps and the Tubeworks is the sweetest thing going. I'm surprised that more people haven't tried it or use it. But I'd love to try it through that big mother VHT power amp. Unfortunately, that's kind of hard to arrange.
Steve[This message was edited by Steve Feldman on 18 May 2000 at 08:02 AM.] |
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Bobby Lee
From:
Cloverdale, California, USA
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Posted 18 May 2000 7:58 am
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I'm using a Peavey Tubefex. I'm thinking of adding a Mesa V-Twin preamp and using the Tubefex just as an effects processor. I like some of the effects in the Tubefex, but I'm having a hard time dialing in "my sound" with it.
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Bobby Lee quasar@b0b.com gigs CDs
Sierra Session S-12 (E9), Speedy West D-10 (E9, D6),
Sierra S-8 Laptop (D13), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (D13, A6) |
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Michael Brebes
From:
Northridge CA
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Posted 19 May 2000 6:40 am
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| Regarding the sound of 6L6 vs EL34s, I have found that 6L6s tend to sound darker and they do have a bit more output before clipping than an EL34. EL34s have a much more open sound with better highs than the 6L6s and they don't have the lower midrange hump of the 6L6s. I think the EL34s are a better choice for a clean articulate sound. I have changed over a couple of my amps to EL34s because of the tone color difference. Tubes have definite frequency response differences. Groove Tubes is a great resource for this information. Regarding the tone of Marshalls, it needs to be remembered that the US amps were sold with 6550 tubes and that tone is a function of also the preamp equalization and the speaker cabinet. I still think a great sounding amp is the old Traynor Mark IIIs that used a Fender preamp with a Marshall(EL34) power amp. Bob, you might want to try putting some Svetlana EL34s in that 50/50 of yours sometime. I think they have the best EL34s available right now. |
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Bobby Lee
From:
Cloverdale, California, USA
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Posted 19 May 2000 7:22 am
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| I'm too happy with the sound of that amp to even think about changing tubes right now, Michael. |
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Dan Tyack
From:
Olympia, WA USA
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Posted 19 May 2000 9:09 am
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I've got a honkin' VHT that anybody can try, if they come to Seattle. This is the VHT 2/90/2 that Bob Hoffnar was talking about. This amp uses KT-88 tubes (higher power 6550) which simply refuse to distort, and have a low end which has to be heard to be believed. Kind of like those old HiWatt heads. But I prefer the EL-34s, even if they do distort more and are lower power. The best would be one side with KT-88s and the other side with EL-34s. I tried this with both of my amps, and is was incredible, but I'm not hauling that around to any gigs (each one of these amps weighs about as much as a Session 400).
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www.tyacktunes.com |
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ToneJunkie
From:
Columbia, MD, USA
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Posted 19 May 2000 5:11 pm
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I'm pretty sure this is the first reference to HIWATT I've seen in this forum... You continue to surprise me, Mr. Dan!
Cheers, Robert
 [This message was edited by ToneJunkie on 19 May 2000 at 06:49 PM.] |
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Dan Tyack
From:
Olympia, WA USA
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Posted 20 May 2000 1:15 am
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I tried a Hiwatt a while ago, very loud, very clean, and that low end that is felt rather than heard.
My friend Andy Marshall at THD tells me that there is no wonder the VHT sounds 'Hiwattish': those guys are all Hiwatt fans.
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www.tyacktunes.com |
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Bob Martin
From:
Madison Tn
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Posted 20 May 2000 10:16 pm
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Does any one have any experience with a Digitech 2120 Valve Preamp/digital effects processer? I just bought one and I think I will like it, but I'm not sure about the preamp, it sounds a little brittle.
Bob
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biggbob@home.com
http://members.tripod.com/biggbobmartin
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Rich Paton
From:
Santa Maria, CA.,
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Posted 22 May 2000 4:57 pm
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Bobby, in 1997, I repaired a Mesa "coluseum series" amp head, that blew from a bass player using a cheezy Rat Shack guitar cord to drive his speakers at high volume. It smoked like mad at its spectacular meltdown, but the only actual damage was to the plastic ON/OFF switch. It was rated at 300 watts output @ 4 ohms load, and used six Sylvania STR-415 (Mesa Spec) 6L6's.
Pure sine-wave, unclipped output (less than or equal to 3% total harmonic distortion) was 174 Watts RMS into a 4 Ohm test load. With the overdrive on, I have no doubt it would do close to 300 watts at 90% grunge factor.
It was a very clean, punchy, & transparent
sounding amp with the OD off, and VERY heavy also, BTW.
The 6l6's had 14 years of hard club use/abuse time on them, and all tested as new, within 100 micromhos gm of each other at a test value of 5000 micromhos nominal...(fortunately for the owner...$$).
Everyone I know using a 50/50 love them, and I've never had one come in the shop.
>
BTW, the U.S. made 6CA7 variant (NOS)of the EL34 is cleaner, tighter, and will handle much higher plate voltage, lasting longer in most amps.
Most if not all of those super-clean Music Man amps used the 6CA7, and a high value of B+ voltage. The only one I've had in for repair had an uninstalled resistor floating around in it, which caused some really weird tones as it contacted various circuit elements, but no permanent damage.[This message was edited by Rich Paton on 22 May 2000 at 06:04 PM.] |
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Bobby Lee
From:
Cloverdale, California, USA
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Posted 23 May 2000 2:59 pm
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I might have built that amp, Rich. I worked at Mesa from '80 to '85, and I wired a lot of those big ones. Look for my BL initials inside the chassis, under the input jack.
Nice to hear that they are still holding up.
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Bobby Lee quasar@b0b.com gigs CDs
Sierra Session S-12 (E9), Speedy West D-10 (E9, D6),
Sierra S-8 Laptop (D13), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (D13, A6) |
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Jim Smith
From:
Midlothian, TX, USA
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Posted 23 May 2000 3:34 pm
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Hey b0b, are you admitting to building the one with the "uninstalled resistor floating around in it"?  |
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