Tic tac Bass

OHARA · From: New York City,NY

Iv'e recorded some shuffle backing tracks,and have tried to add tic tac Bass,I cant get that driving effect that I hear on records,
do they use a reg bass,Add reverb,it sounds like its not just doubled(little grace notesnow and again)Help,Pat.

Steve Hinson · From: Hendersonville Tn USA

Pat,the tic-tac on most of the old shuffle records was played on a Danelectro six-string bass...thru a Fender amplifier with the treble turned way up.The Danelectro is tuned like a guitar...an octave lower.Mute the strings with the edge of your palm and double the electric or upright bass part.Use a pick...No reverb(far as I can tell)...I've been trying to do this some lately-I've done everything according to what I've heard from some of the guys who did this originally and it's working pretty well-I think I need to try to find some flatwound strings-the round ones sound too lively.If you listen to the old Price shuffles,you can't hear a kick drum-the tic-tac is there instead...hope this helps...Steve

Ron Randall · From: Dallas, Texas, USA

FWIW This reply will sound like Steve's.

Did this a lot in another century! Live and recordings. Fender VI is a six string bass, tuned an octave lower than guitar. Shorter scale than 4 string bass. Flat wound strings. Use the middle and the neck pickup. Fender Showman. Pick and damp strings.
Doubled with P Bass and Showman with lots of low end.

Can also do the tic tac with a Fender Jazz Bass, flat wound, pick and damp strings.

Saw another group do this one time with a P Bass, flatwound strings, that were over 10 years old, and no plans to change them. Click Clack, TIC TAC.

Jimmy Dale · From: Ripley, W.Va

I get the tic-tac really easy on my U-12 by using the 3 bottom strings with the palm of my hand on them just behind the pick-up.
I use a Vegas 400, a Zoom 505 II processor pedal with one short delay and as Jeff Newman used to say, "just enough chorus so that you don't know it's there until it isn't". Amp reverb set at 3. Jim Miller I'D RATHER BE STEELIN'

Larry Miller · From: Dothan AL,USA

Here is what I heard a long time ago, from a TIC TAC player here in Nashville. Danelectro 6 string bass, or any old 6 string bass, Princeton Reverb with 10 INCH SPEAKER, with reverb.

Dave Birkett · From: Oxnard, CA, USA

I believe one reason the tic tac bass sounds so good is that it's not doubling another bass guitar but an upright bass. Isn't an upright bass an octave lower than a bass guitar?

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

Bob Blair · From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

No, an upright bass is definitely not an octave lower. I may well be one of the world's worst upright bass players (and many many years ago I actually perfomed with one in a band I was in, for which I probably ought to have been taken outside and shot), but that much I do know!

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

The new Danelectro company makes what they call a barotone guitar that has a 30 inch scale. Most other baritones have a 27 inch scale.

Is there and difference between this instrument (aside from tuning) and the 6 string bass they used to make?

Jussi Huhtakangas · From: Helsinki, Finland

I've played both Danos, the baritone and the six string bass, and other than the tuning, they're the same. Dano baritone is actually the instrument, which was first used for tic tac bass lines, it was introduced in -57 and Grady Martin was probably the first to use it extensively on recordings. It's more "twangier" than the six string bass.

[This message was edited by Jussi Huhtakangas on 07 February 2003 at 12:35 AM.]

Alvin Blaine · From: Picture Rocks, Arizona, USA

Mike,
I have an old Danelectro and one of the new ones in Commie Red . The difference is that the new ones play better and stay in tune better and are made a little better than the old ones.
The new ones have a different bridge and nut and tuners. The old bridges are very hard to restring and to keep in tune and the old ones had an aluminum nut that the strings would bind up on. Sound wise they are exactly the same.
The new ones come tuned a fifth lower that a standard guitar and the string gauge is .014 - .070
To tune down an octave I use .024 - .084 D'Addario 6-string guitar/bass set # XL155
I highly recommend the new ones. For the price they are a great deal. I paid almost $500 for the '60s Dano back in '87 and I paid $120(A price mistake a Guitar Center)for the new one a few years ago. I realy like the new one better.

Mike Perlowin · From: Los Angeles CA

I also have a red one. It's tuned to A, and I love the way it sounds. I did make one modification- I added an out of phase switch, which when activated gives the guitar a new and differnet and very cool sound.

But I don't like the 30 inch scale. I find it very uncomfortable, especially for playing chords. I may convert this to a bass and pick up another baritone with a shorter scale.

Peter · Posted 7 Feb 2003 7:15 am

I think the driving effect comes from the timing, not the sound.

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Peter den Hartogh-Fender Artist S10-Remington U12-Hilton Volume Pedal-Gibson BR4 lapsteel-Guya "Stringmaster" Copy-MusicMan112RP-Peavy Rage158- - My Animation College in South Africa

Buddy Carter · From: Spring Grove (Chicago), IL

The idea of using electric tic-tac over an acoustic bass does probably explains why the old records sounded like they did vs. most of our modern attempts. Most of us don't record acoustic bass.

What has worked for me is to just use a Tele and muted picking to mimick the electric bass lines. Seems to record pretty well. FWIW.

John Kavanagh · From: Kentville, Nova Scotia, Canada * R.I.P.

I've played one of the new Danelectros, tuned a fifth lower than standard guitar: A,DGcea. They're really cool, but they don't sound like a bass.

I think the old ones were tuned like a Fender VI, an octave lower than a guitar: E,A,DGBe. That would suit a 30-inch scale; the 27 inch scale would be good for the A tuning. Jussi says there were two models, a six-string bass and a baritone, but I don't know if they're reissuing the lower version. I think people have used various combinations, even restringing and tuning a Fender VI A-a.

The regular bass guitar is the same as the upright bass: an octave lower than the low four strings of a guitar. The "modern" five string bass usually adds a low B,, string, and the "modern" six-string, a very different animal from the Danelectro and Fender VI, also adds a high c string, so it's all fourths: B,,E,A,DGc.

[This message was edited by John Kavanagh on 08 February 2003 at 09:51 AM.]

Jim Cohen · From: Philadelphia, PA

Jus' curious: why bother using a 6-string bass guitar when you're just doubling a 4-string bass part? Seems like you're not gonna play those top 2 strings anyway, no?

Jussi Huhtakangas · From: Helsinki, Finland

John, Dano already has reissued both guitars and I just did a session using a new Dano six string bass. I'd say it gives a nice bottom end twang and spices up a song. I see it more as another guitar than a bass, though I agree, that the two high strings rarely get any use.

Tim Harr · From: Dunlap, Illinois

I was in Nashville with the Army Band playing the Opry a few years back and had a chance to meet with Harold Bradley (Owen's brother) at his office in Nashville. He was the President of the Nashville Local A Fof M at the time.

He showed me the tic tac bass he played on Patsy Cline, Webb Pierce, and Loretta Lynn, etc....records it was a DanElectro played through a Standel I think. He also had a Fender VI (six string bass).

He also showed me his date book for the sessions he was doing one week in 1961, I think. He was going from a Roy Orbison to a Patsy Cline session in the same day. He made a Xerox copy of a few pages for me!

Cool Stuff..

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Tim Harr - Carter D-10 8 & 9 - Troy Cook Jr Band ~ Stardust Nashville Recording Artist

Buck Dilly · From: Branchville, NJ, USA * R.I.P.

If anyone wants an original Dan-o, 2PU, 6 string, in copper color, with case, I have one. It is all original but has no decal on the headstock. It was possibly headed for Sears to get silvertone Decal but who know? I sure don't. Sounds, looks, and plays perfect. Minor wear. buckdilly@yahoo.com

Tony Palmer · From: St Augustine,FL

Any possibility of getting this sound electronically using a pitch shifter with either a regular guitar (adding an octave down) or a bass (adding an octave up)?
If it works, you can earn double pay......!

Roger Miller · From: Cedar Falls, Ia.

Basically the tic tac covered the percussiveness and the acoustic bass covered the fullness. My local sessions sound so much better and the people comment on how good it sounds and improves the song.I'm glad I now do the tic tac in the sessions, just don't tell the reg. bass player, I add later.

Ron Randall · From: Dallas, Texas, USA

Jim Cohen,

Do you need 6 strings?
For this effect, no.

In my case, I played Strat with big flat wounds for rhythm guitar when the Fender VI came out. I just had to try it, to see what I could get out of it.

One of the many things you could do was the click bass sound. For this style, you only need 4 strings.

I played some interesting lead guitar solo's with one of the first fuzztone effects on the little strings way up the neck. Fun, novelty, different sound. Hey, it wore off!

The sound was/is very different than a full scale P Bass. Something about the shorter scale and smaller gauges, made it easy.
click-clack. tic-tac. Man, those were some fun times!

John Bechtel · From: Nashville, Tennessee, R.I.P.

Back in '77-'78, when I was working the 'Opry, with Stonewall Jackson, I used to see Leon Rhodes play tic-tac bass with, I believe a 6str Dan-Electro bass guitar, through an unknown brand amp.(probably Peavey, since they supplied the amplification systems) along with the upright bass of Billy Lennamen! It worked for the 'Opry then, and probably still does now, on rare occasions! "Big John"

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"Big John" Bechtel http://community.webtv.net/KeoniNui/BigJohnBechtels