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Topic: Scam of the week??? |
Bobby Duncan
From:
Pensacola, FL, USA (these days)
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Posted 9 Jul 2004 7:33 pm |
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I've had several items listed for sale over the past couple of weeks and I had an offer from a guy wanting to make the purchase. He claimed that he wanted to buy my steel for $2050.00, but that his 'associate' would issue me a cashiers check that was owed to him for an amount almost double the $2050.00. I was to cash the check and wire transfer the balance, less $50.00 for my trouble to him, and then his associate would arrange to pick up the steel. It sounded fishy, but I figured as long as I got paid, what the heck, right? Wrong. Then, he sent me an email asking me to find out what it would cost to cash the cashiers check and that's when I told him to pack sand. Haven't heard from him since. Today, I get a similar offer. Anybody else had these kinds of offers? I was just wondering what the scam is supposed to be.
Regards,
BD  |
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David Higginbotham
From:
Lake Charles, Louisiana, USA
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Bobby Duncan
From:
Pensacola, FL, USA (these days)
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Posted 9 Jul 2004 8:08 pm
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Thanks David,
That's the one. bOb, you can close this one. I see it has already been addressed.
Thanks,
BD |
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Bob Cox
From:
Buckeye State
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Posted 10 Jul 2004 6:26 am
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| I think it would be nice if only forum members can buy or sell .Alot of us have been members for along time.If some one new comes along perhaps for the first year he would have to have a sponcer to buy or sell, from a member thats been around for at least a year.This would make it safer. [This message was edited by Bob Cox on 10 July 2004 at 07:27 AM.] |
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Bobby Duncan
From:
Pensacola, FL, USA (these days)
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Posted 10 Jul 2004 6:47 am
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May not be a bad idea. I guess it would be up to us to make sure someone is a forum member prior to entertaining offers.
Thanks,
BD |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 10 Jul 2004 8:35 am
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I can't enforce any policy for these private deals, but if people want to say "forum members only" in their ads, I wouldn't object. For credentials, buyers can prove they're a member by posting a reply.
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 Bobby Lee
-b0b- quasar@b0b.com
System Administrator |
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Bobby Duncan
From:
Pensacola, FL, USA (these days)
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Posted 10 Jul 2004 8:38 am
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That's a good idea bOb.
Thanks,
BD |
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Skip Keane
From:
Rhode Island, USA
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Posted 10 Jul 2004 1:13 pm
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| Just be careful... I had a antique tractor for sale and the gentle from England wanted it and we agreed on the price. But he wanted to send me a bank money order for double the amount... I keep telling him to just go to the bank and send me just the amount of the tractor.... I keep at it until he finally just gave up. Beware even though it is a bank check it might not be good. BE CAREFUl, there are a lot of good people out there but there are also the others.. |
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Loni Specter
From:
West Hills, CA, USA
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Posted 11 Jul 2004 8:15 am
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There's two rules I follow when dealing with foriegn buyers and Ebay users with little or no feedback. On Instruments over $1,500. I often get offers to pay with cashier's checks or credit card from overseas. (mostley Malaysia, but lately Africa) I tell them to FedEx cash in US dollars. I don't take credit cards, or transfer me the funds via direct bank transfer. 99% of the time I never hear from them again.
the other rule is, when I'm bidding on an item on Ebay, where the seller has no feedback (or has only bought a few low priced items thus bolstering his feedback score) I won't pay for an expensive item before it is shipped and I can inspect it. I email the seller and inform him of my terms and he must agree before I will bid. Of course it takes time to build a feedback record on Ebay. Mine is over 240. On the forum there's no such record of 'happy campers' unless members voluntarily add comments, responses re; sellers. |
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forrest klott
From:
Grand Rapids Mi USA
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Posted 13 Jul 2004 12:12 pm
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Damn guys, just got hit by a scammer from Greece on my push pull ad!
Skeet |
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William Peters
From:
Effort, Pennsylvania, USA
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Posted 13 Jul 2004 12:39 pm
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Yeah, I got three of those scam offers on the $30 autoharp I listed. I just delete them. The only way to stop this would be for b0b to close the for sale section to members only. But then, you might lose a legit sale.
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Bill
http://www.wgpeters.com
Cougar SD-10, PV-260, Tubefex, PV TNT-115, Gibson SG, Squier P-Bass, Berhinger V-amp Pro
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Jerry Overstreet
From:
Louisville Ky
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Posted 13 Jul 2004 2:15 pm
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Last Feb, I posed a query about dealing w/folks that weren't forumites responding to ads placed here. I got some jabs and unkind remarks stating that my post presupposed that non-forumites were not trustworthy. The point I was trying to make was that if a person is a member, you can pull up their profile and see some ads that they have responded to or posts that they have made. From this info, you can get an idea of how they deal w/other forumites. If a buyer responds to one of my ads, and I don't recognize the name from the forum or can't find the name in a search here, I ask if they are a Forum member and if not, why not? If one is interested in Steel Guitar and uses the forum to glean info about the instrument and items for sale here, I can't see any reason for not joining. High profile musicians like Buddy Emmons and Paul Franklin, among others, are not afraid to be seen here, so why would anyone else? I'm not suggesting that you shouldn't deal w/non-forumites or that all forumites are above reproach. I have had a couple bad experiences, so I choose never to deal
w/these members again, but 98% of the transactions have been favorable and even a pleasure. If you don't know the person or if they are not a forumite, you just don't know who you might be dealing. There are lots of good folks out there that are not members for whatever reasons, but how can you know if it's a good-un or a bad-un?
[This message was edited by Jerry Overstreet on 13 July 2004 at 03:20 PM.] |
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Brad Sarno
From:
St. Louis, MO USA
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Posted 13 Jul 2004 5:24 pm
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If it smells bad, don't eat it.
Brad Sarno
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KENNY KRUPNICK
From:
Grove City,Ohio
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Posted 14 Jul 2004 10:02 am
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I recieved the same e-mail about the guys associate wanting to buy my MSA,and him saying for me to keep the extra $200.00 for the aggravation. Let's keep these scammers away. Let everyone know what's been going on.
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Jory Simmons
From:
Elkhorn, Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 14 Jul 2004 11:28 am
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| This guy emailed me to buy my session500.His Handle was mikro70@outgun.com he said his agent would send me a check for 5K and I was to deduct my fee's and send him the balance (to Africa) and then his "friend" would contact me to pick-up the amp. Stupidly I gave him my address and phone number!!!I think these guys are laundering money buy buyin musical instruments. anyway when I told him I would only accept cash from his "agent" He stopped emailing me, and I never heard from him again! Heads up out there! JD [This message was edited by Jory Simmons on 14 July 2004 at 12:31 PM.] |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 15 Jul 2004 11:48 am
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From the Cars On Line web site: quote:
THE CLASSIC NIGERIAN SCAM Update 1/1/04
A con game we call the "Nigerian scam" is prevalent on the Internet. Most people who are trying to sell something on the Internet have already run into this situation. You are contacted by a "buyer" who wants to send you a cashiers check for an amount that is more than you are asking for your vehicle. The check looks so authentic that your bank can't tell it is a fake. Then the "buyer" asks you to refund the overrage to help him out.
The problem is that the original check will be a fake and when you refund the money, it will come out of your pocket. Last year, we had issued warnings for our advertisers not to be taken in by this scam. The scam is being run on anyone who may be selling something, i.e. real estate, jewelry, boats, etc. But cars are a natural for this scam because cars sell so frequently over the Internet that buyers and sellers who are intently focused on the sale don't often stop to think that they are being taken for a ride.
The way it works is like this: the buyer (usually claiming to be a broker representing a wealthy buyer or group of buyers from "whereever" (Sierre Leon, Israel, United Arab Emirates, South America or even London, England) sends a check for payment for the car. The check is for too much money, so he asks the owner of the car to cash the check and then send the overpayment back to the him. So the sting is that they get you to send the money back before you know if their check has cleared. Banks can't tell if the check is real for up to 17 days.
It used to be that the scammers all identified themselves as being from Nigeria, perhaps the most corrupt country on the planet. Now they will tell you they are from somewhere other than Nigeria, but when we trace the IP address of these emails they are almost always sent from a Yahoo mail account and the address always starts from Nigeria. The reason for that is that this scam is protected by the Nigerian government. Some say it is the fifth largest industry in Nigeria.
If you are contacted by buyers who identify themselves as being brokers from overseas, refer to this link: http://home.rica.net/alphae/419coal/
Please understand that any offer you get from a broker should be looked at with some skepticism. Then if they say they're going to send you a check for an amount that is more than the price you are asking for your car, tell them you will only accept the exact amount. It is best if you receive your payment in a Western Union money order. That way you don't have to give out your bank account number. They will use your personal information and your bank account number to scam other individuals.
Please don't get so excited about selling your car that you fall victim to one of these "criminals." Here at the Cars On Line office we want to make sure that none of our advertisers gets caught in the "pigeon drop."
The world is full of real buyers. Don't get suckered in by this scam.
Sounds like exactly the same thing that we're seeing here.
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Bobby Lee
-b0b- quasar@b0b.com
System Administrator |
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Wiz Feinberg
From:
Mid-Michigan, USA
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Posted 16 Jul 2004 6:52 am
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To add to what b0b posted, before you think of replying to, or playing mind games with anybody who sends you such an email, or who phones you with the same offer, please read my reply (#24) to this Post on the Amps for Sale Forum:
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum17/HTML/000242.html
Wiz[This message was edited by Wiz Feinberg on 16 July 2004 at 04:08 PM.] |
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Nicholas Dedring
From:
Beacon, New York, USA
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Posted 19 Jul 2004 11:44 am
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I have to say that if someone asked me to Fed-Ex Cash to them, I would run like the wind away from that deal...
Fedex expressly tells you not to include "cash, or cash equivalents" in their pouches. If you send things of intrinsic value (money, bearer bonds, precious stones), and they get lost, you are SOL... they will not refund you for it.
If someone wants to wait, great, fine... but what better can you offer than a certified check???? That's as good as you're going to get, as it's supposed to be guaranteed funds.
Aside from sending cash, what choices are there? |
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CrowBear Schmitt
From:
Ariege, - PairO'knees, - France
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Posted 19 Jul 2004 12:43 pm
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| you can always send'em a minute snake, scorpion or a tarantula |
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Tom Olson
From:
Spokane, WA
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Posted 19 Jul 2004 6:30 pm
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b0b: there may be some problems with what I'm suggesting below, and I haven't thought it completely through -- this is just an off-the-cuff suggestion.
Wouldn't this issue be benefitted by making members email addresses available only to other members? Maybe it's not technically feasible (would cost too much or be too complicated). But, it seems like the only people who would want to email members would be either:
1) other members; or,
2) scammers. |
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Tom Olson
From:
Spokane, WA
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Posted 19 Jul 2004 6:32 pm
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| Regarding the issue generally, wouldn't the only reasonable answer be to wait until any funds clear before completing any type of deal? [This message was edited by Tom Olson on 19 July 2004 at 07:32 PM.] |
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Wiz Feinberg
From:
Mid-Michigan, USA
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Posted 19 Jul 2004 7:14 pm
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quote:
Regarding the issue generally, wouldn't the only reasonable answer be to wait until any funds clear before completing any type of deal?
This might take up to two weeks, or even longer, to ensure that a check wasn't a forgery. These Nigerian crooks are part of a World-Wide Counterfit Check rings, and their checks and money orders look like the real thing. Even Postal Money Orders have been forged by them! I have read many reports, from victims of these check-kiting scams, who were told by their banks that the certified check, or money order was as good as cash in hand, only to get a phone call or certified letter from their bank, two or three weeks later, that it turned out to be forged by experts. These people were then told that they owed the full amount of the phoney check.
Anytime you are contacted by a check-kiter/419 scammer, they will pressure you to accept the over-payment check from them, or their associate, and rush the balance transfer to them, in South Africa, by Western Union. Once any money has been sent to them in this fashion, it is totally unrecoverable. If you turned over any goods, they are lost, and you are SOL. Furthermore, your email address, mailing address, name, and banking info will probably be passed around to other scammers and spammers. You will be a prime target for lots more scams and spams.
As I have stated before, you can protect yourself, on a temporary basis, by turning off the public display of your email address, in your Profile, and ask interested parties to respond to the Forum, under your item's thread. Then, work out a throwaway free email account to close the deal with the buyer. You can also restrict sales to Forum Members only, and say so in your ad. State that you only sell to the buyer themselves. As an added measure do not accept payment methods other than PayPal, from verified Paypal members only, with verified addresses that match their profile, or by Western Union MoneyGrams, where the agent cashes the moneygram on the spot. Never accept a deal where the buyer wants to send you excess payment and have you refund the balance to them, anywhere. This is a sure sign of a scam.
b0b and I are working behind the scenes to protect you all, but you must act in your own defense until the new security measures are in place, and probably even afterward. The perps will eventually fade out, but could return at any time, using new tricks to fool us and you. If we make it totally unprofitable for them, by spreading the truth about their schemes and not respond to them at all, they will go elsewhere, where the pickins are better and the members don't talk among themselves like we do.
As I have stated earlier, do not attempt to play games with 419 scammers. You will probably get burned in the end. Look over my posts for the links to websites where you can report Advance Cash scams originating in South Africa. The crime is covered under Nigerian Penal Code 419, but nobody has been convicted to this day, despite over 500 arrests. You figure out why.
Regarding the person who asked what safe methods are available, everything in this life is risky, but Western Union will usually pay you in cash. If the buyer won't pay the service charge to send through Western Union, a Postal Money Order can be accepted, with the understanding that you won't ship until you are sure it won't be returned by your bank, or until it has been cashed by the Post Office, or a cashing service that won't come looking for you if it bounces later on. PayPal can be used fairly safely, if you only sell to verified buyers, and ship to the same address. Be aware that PayPal buyers have the right to ask for a reversal of their payments, for certain reasons, and you would have to dispute the request for the reversal with PayPal.
Stick to selling to verified Forum members, but avoid selling to anybody in Nigeria, or its neighboring countries. If somebody is willing to come and pickup your item, tell them to bring cash, in small bills, then offer them a receipt for the payment.
Wiz[This message was edited by Wiz Feinberg on 19 July 2004 at 08:32 PM.] |
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TRAP TRULY
From:
Mobile , AL
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Posted 20 Jul 2004 1:08 pm
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wiz,
I got this response today after a week of email and even a phone call from the U.K. where this guy wants to buy mt guitar posted on the forum. What do you think.
EMAIL READS:
"Hi Trap, went into bank this morning they said the way it works is I need your bank account details, (number, bank Bic number or national clearing number) and name and address of your bank.On giving them the details the cash will be tranferred into your account within 5-7 days from my bank The Royal Bank Of Scotland , Chief Office , Moncrieff Street Paisley.If you can let me have details as soon as possible I will take them to the bank,so your money can be transferred.Thanks"
I asked for a cashiers check originally.
trap
----- Original Message -----
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Bobby Duncan
From:
Pensacola, FL, USA (these days)
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Posted 20 Jul 2004 2:06 pm
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Well, the saga continues, I think. That "Dustin" guy called me. I told him that I wasn't interested. (Frankly, I didn't recall giving him my number) He tried several times. I blocked his email address so he couldn't send me any more emails. Well, today in the mail, I received a cashiers check for $4500.00. The stamp and postmark on the envelope looks like it's from overseas, but can't make much of it out, except one of the stamps says By Air Mail par avion Royal Mail. The other stamp says Rhewl, Dee Valley, Wales. The interesting part is that the return address, on back of the envelope says Mr. Charles Worth, 23 Park Ave, LOS Maryland. Didn't have a zip code. The check looks like a regular cashiers check drawn on Saint Augusta Office, State Bank of Kimball, 24952 RD. 7, St. Cloud, MN 56301. The remitter on the check (who it's from) is Joe Moore, and the check is signed at the bottom by Mary Knaws. Tough to make out the last name, but that what it looks like. No note or anything in the envelope to say what the check is for, and none of those names ring a bell for me. I assume it's from that Dustin Cole, or whatever his name was, that was gonna have his agent send me the payment.
I'm gonna pass on this one too.
BD |
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Bobby Duncan
From:
Pensacola, FL, USA (these days)
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