String Gauges - Too Heavy? Risky?

[Will Helton]

I've decided to move my outer neck from an A6 tuning to a G7 tuning to better complement my inner C6 neck.

The A6 tuning I have is a higher A6:

1 - E .014
2 - C# .017
3 - A .021
4 - F# .026 wound
5 - E .030 wound
6 - C# .034 wound

so I've just modified this to G7 as follows:

G7 tuning:

1 - F .014
2 - D .017
3 - B .021
4 - G .026 wound
5 - F .030 wound
6 - D .034 wound

I'm new to lap steel, so are these strings too heavy for the tuning I'm using? Should I go a couple of numbers lighter on everything to avoid possibly damaging the instrument?

I'd really appreciate informed feedback.

Thanks,
Will

[Noah Miller]

That should be fine for any solidbody steel.

[Will Helton]

That should be fine for any solidbody steel.

Thanks, Noah. I appreciate your input.

I chickened out after checking the tension on StringJoy. The B string was coming in at a rather disturbing 34lbs, so I've gone back to the A6 tuning until I can get some better gauges.

I'm attaching a screenshot of what the weights/tension should be keeping things below 30lbs.

If anyone has any further thoughts, I'm all ears.

Thanks,
Will

[Joe A. Roberts]

I don't think you have to worry about damaging the instrument, but the tone might not be ideal on those heavy B and G strings.

Also I am not sure what you are looking for or what you mean by complimenting C6th, but my unsolicited advice would be to try this G7th:
D
B
G
F
D
B
Which would work out okay with your current gauges (tuning down is always less scary than tuning up )
I also think it would be a more versatile tuning.
Even though tunings with the 7th tone of the chord on top have a unique bluesy sound they are very rare, and I think it is for a reason.
Especially when you are working with only 6 strings, it isn't worth duplicating the 7th IMO.

Classic E7th is even better, works perfectly with your current strings, and at one point almost became the standard tuning in the 1930s for good reason:
E
B
G#
E
D
B

Those dual six Fenders are super cool, do you have the brown or the white one? What kind of music are you playing?

[Will Helton]

I don't think you have to worry about damaging the instrument, but the tone might not be ideal on those heavy B and G strings.

Also I am not sure what you are looking for or what you mean by complimenting C6th, but my unsolicited advice would be to try this G7th:
D
B
G
F
D
B

Thanks, Joe. I really appreciate that. I'll give it and the E tuning below a try today.

The reason I said I thought the G7 would complement the C6 tuning is that I've seen a few players that seem to favour a dominant tuning a 5th away from their major tuning (Don Helms, for example, with his E6 and B dominant tunings).

I also think it would be a more versatile tuning.

And this is just the kind of advice I need. I'm still trying to find my feet, so knowing what makes a good tuning is gold dust, really.

Classic E7th is even better, works perfectly with your current strings, and at one point almost became the standard tuning in the 1930s for good reason:

Sounds good to me. Thanks. But what would dictate whether I use the one tuning or the other (the G7 above vs. the E7)? Just personal preference? Or would it depend on style of music (or other factors)?

Those dual six Fenders are super cool, do you have the brown or the white one? What kind of music are you playing?

I've got a white one and I love it. It's a really nice refurbed one. I'm aiming to play Western Swing and early country (a la Hank Williams, etc.), but I'm still working on what grips I prefer and how I move around the neck.

I've started with the C6 neck and am making good progress, so will soon be trying ideas for the dominant neck when I've figured out what works best to complement what I play on the other neck.

Any advice will be gladly received!

[David M Brown]

Classic E7th is even better, works perfectly with your current strings, and at one point almost became the standard tuning in the 1930s for good reason:
E
B
G#
E
D
B

Indeed - and by changing one string you get

E
C#
G#
E
D
B

which was also a great classic tuning.

[Will Helton]

Indeed - and by changing one string you get

E
C#
G#
E
D
B

which was also a great classic tuning.

Thanks, David. I really appreciate everyone's help on this.

Is there a sort of rule of thumb as to what makes a good tuning? Should I stick to major/minor 3rds as much as possible?

I've tried the E7 and really like it. I think I'll stick with it, although I think I'll bump a few strings up a couple of gauges as I like the stiffer tension.

I'm also thinking I'll shift my C6 neck to a higher C6 tuning:

1 - G
2 - E
3 - C
4 - A
5 - G
6 - E

I like having the 5 on the top. It makes playing diad solos easier for me.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Are there any foibles to this I might not be aware of?

Many thanks,
Will

[Gary Meixner]

Will,

A lot of players will use a C6 tuning with a fifth on top. I have tried it from time to time but find the tone of that high G to be thin and weak. I have never been able to get the tuning to sound balanced.

When I want a 6th tuning with a a fifth on top I use A6. To me the tone sounds more balanced, warm and full. It really come down to personal taste.

I have also found string breakage to be an issue when using a C6 with an G on top.


Gary

[Stephen Cowell]

The way the tuning is spelled in the OP all the strings just go up 1/2 step except the 3rd string up a step. So you could just raise the 3rd string up a half step and have your tuning in F# instead of G.

Or maybe I'm brain-farting... not the first time!

[Joe A. Roberts]

Sounds good to me. Thanks. But what would dictate whether I use the one tuning or the other (the G7 above vs. the E7)? Just personal preference? Or would it depend on style of music (or other factors)?

I don't know if you messed with open tunings much on guitar, but it is a similar dilemma.
It really is the triad on top that characterizes the color of a tuning.
Open G and Open D are both tuned to major chords. Now, they can both be, for the most part, used for same kind of music, but they really do have different flavors.

Anyway, the E7th is a great tuning for old country and I think is a good complement for C6th.

Little Roy Wiggins was using that same 6 string E7th on a lot of great songs with Eddy Arnold in the mid 40s except with a low E instead of B string on #6.
He switched to a E6th type tuning with a high G# later, but these recordings showcase a really pure, classic, and inspiring sound:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=O ... 60zN3eByZ0

[Will Helton]

Indeed - and by changing one string you get

E
C#
G#
E
D
B

which was also a great classic tuning.

Nice!

[Will Helton]

I don't know if you messed with open tunings much on guitar, but it is a similar dilemma.
It really is the triad on top that characterizes the color of a tuning.
Open G and Open D are both tuned to major chords. Now, they can both be, for the most part, used for same kind of music, but they really do have different flavors.

Anyway, the E7th is a great tuning for old country and I think is a good complement for C6th.

Little Roy Wiggins was using that same 6 string E7th on a lot of great songs with Eddy Arnold in the mid 40s except with a low E instead of B string on #6.
He switched to a E6th type tuning with a high G# later, but these recordings showcase a really pure, classic, and inspiring sound:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=O ... 60zN3eByZ0

Great stuff. Very much appreciated.

Do you mind if I send you a DM? Do you give online lessons?

Thanks,
Will

[Will Helton]

Will,

A lot of players will use a C6 tuning with a fifth on top. I have tried it from time to time but find the tone of that high G to be thin and weak. I have never been able to get the tuning to sound balanced.

When I want a 6th tuning with a a fifth on top I use A6. To me the tone sounds more balanced, warm and full. It really come down to personal taste.

I have also found string breakage to be an issue when using a C6 with an G on top.


Gary

Thanks, Gary. I reckon that makes good sense. I appreciate you pointing that out. I'll keep the standard C6 for the time being, but if I want that 3rd on top, I'll swap over to a high A6.

Thanks,
Will