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Topic: 10 string C6 tunings |
Frank James Pracher
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 3 May 2024 5:00 am |
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I recently acquired a double neck Alkire E-Harp that I'm getting into shape.
What's a good 10 string C6 tuning? I had an 8 string in the past and I really liked
F
A
C
E
G
A
C
E
_________________
"Don't be mad honey, but I bought another one" |
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Bill McCloskey
From:
Nanuet, NY
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K Maul
From:
Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL
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Posted 3 May 2024 7:00 am
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I assume this is “low to high”. I’d try either:
C
F
A
C
E
G
A
C
E
D
Or:
F
A
C
C#
E
G
A
C
E
D
_________________
Kevin Maul: Airline, Beard, Clinesmith, Donner, Evans, Excel, Fender, Fluger, Gibson, Hilton, Ibanez, Justice, K+K, Live Strings, MOYO, National, Oahu, Peterson, Quilter, Rickenbacher, Sho~Bud, Supro, TC, Ultimate, VHT, Williams, X-otic, Yamaha, ZKing. |
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Frank James Pracher
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 3 May 2024 7:19 am
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That's same model I have...mine appears to have spent a good deal of time stored in a barn. But it's cleaning up nicely. I currently have the two necks apart (they are just bolted together) for cleaning.
It's missing one of the pickups/handrest so I'm going to post in the "wanted" section on the slim chance someone has one. I'll fabricate something if nothing turns
I may opt to keep the necks apart.. it's very heavy, and the legs aren't in the best shape.
_________________
"Don't be mad honey, but I bought another one" |
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Frank James Pracher
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 3 May 2024 7:21 am
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| K Maul wrote: |
I assume this is “low to high”. I’d try either:
C
F
A
C
E
G
A
C
E
D
Or:
F
A
C
C#
E
G
A
C
E
D |
Would the D string in these be a lower note than the E above it?
_________________
"Don't be mad honey, but I bought another one" |
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Bill McCloskey
From:
Nanuet, NY
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Posted 3 May 2024 7:42 am
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| Quote: |
| That's same model I have |
It was the only double neck model made. Less than 5 made. I never liked the pickups much on the double neck version.
Of course you can do what you want, but splitting the necks does destroy a piece of history, due to it's rarity.
_________________
Check out the Steel Guitar Union Hall Youtube Channel https://www.youtube.com/@steelguitarunionhall |
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Ricky Davis
From:
Bertram, Texas USA
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Posted 3 May 2024 7:52 am
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G
E
D
C
A
G
E
D
C
A
Ricky
_________________
Ricky Davis
Email Ricky: sshawaiian2362@gmail.com
Last edited by Ricky Davis on 3 May 2024 9:21 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Frank James Pracher
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 3 May 2024 7:58 am
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| Bill McCloskey wrote: |
| Quote: |
| That's same model I have |
It was the only double neck model made. Less than 5 made. I never liked the pickups much on the double neck version.
Of course you can do what you want, but splitting the necks does destroy a piece of history, due to it's rarity. |
I have no plans to do anything I can't reverse...I have too much respect for these instruments.
The necks actually separate very easily.. two bolts. one under the fretboard and one in the pickup cavity.
The pickup is interesting... on the underside you can see that it's made up of three of the magnets that they used on the Supro/Valco string through pickups.
_________________
"Don't be mad honey, but I bought another one" |
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Tony Oresteen
From:
Georgia, USA
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Posted 3 May 2024 8:02 am
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I use a High G tuning.
H to L:
G
E
C
A
G
E
C
A
F
C
_________________
Tony
Newnan, GA
Too many guitars, not enough time to play
'72 Sho-Bud 6139, '71 Marlen 210
'78 Fender Stringmaster T8 black
PedalMaster D8 |
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Bill McCloskey
From:
Nanuet, NY
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Posted 3 May 2024 8:07 am
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Good to know.
The pickups on the original epiphone models are a nightmare if you need to get them rewound. My guitar tech tried for a month to rewind it and we finally had to give up and just replace the pickup. It was built so the pickup couldn't be removed. I eventually sold that. I'm down to only 3 Eharps. A mint Epiphone. The single neck version of your double neck and one of the wood models.
_________________
Check out the Steel Guitar Union Hall Youtube Channel https://www.youtube.com/@steelguitarunionhall |
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K Maul
From:
Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL
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Posted 4 May 2024 4:09 am
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Yes the D is between C and E. That’s like the modern Emmons version of C6. Good for melodic runs. You could also try C# in that position to go with the lower C# to get a full A7 chord ala Jerry Byrd.
The high G rather than D is a good option as mentioned by others for Old School country tunes. Some don’t like the sound of it but I like how it really cuts through the mix. As a dobro player I am used to having that note on the top.
| Frank James Pracher wrote: |
| K Maul wrote: |
I assume this is “low to high”. I’d try either:
C
F
A
C
E
G
A
C
E
D
Or:
F
A
C
C#
E
G
A
C
E
D |
Would the D string in these be a lower note than the E above it? |
_________________
Kevin Maul: Airline, Beard, Clinesmith, Donner, Evans, Excel, Fender, Fluger, Gibson, Hilton, Ibanez, Justice, K+K, Live Strings, MOYO, National, Oahu, Peterson, Quilter, Rickenbacher, Sho~Bud, Supro, TC, Ultimate, VHT, Williams, X-otic, Yamaha, ZKing. |
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Joe A. Roberts
From:
Seoul, South Korea
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Posted 4 May 2024 6:49 am
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Bobby Black's tuning is interesting. The b string is pitched below the upper C string.
The d and b on here are analogous to the f# and d# on E9th pedal steel:
d
b
E
C
A
G
E
C
A
F
lower case letters = out of sequence (re-entrant strings), makes it a little easier to see that they are different IMO. |
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Allan Revich
From:
Victoria, BC
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Posted 6 May 2024 12:56 pm
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| Tony Oresteen wrote: |
I use a High G tuning.
H to L:
G
E
C
A
G
E
C
A
F
C |
Assuming the standard Alkyre tuning on one neck, this looks like it would make an easy C6 based tuning to get a handle on for the 2nd neck.
_________________
Current Tunings:
6 String | D – D A D F# A D
7 String | D9 – D A D F♯ A C E
https://papadafoe.com/lap-steel-tuning-database |
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Frank James Pracher
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 6 May 2024 4:40 pm
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I like C,F,A, added to the low end. I think I'll try the High G and the variation K Maul posted with the D on the top.
I tried the high G years ago and it seemed very tiny and thin sounding, but I might give it another go... It seems to be fairly popular
Thanks for all the replies!
_________________
"Don't be mad honey, but I bought another one" |
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Allan Revich
From:
Victoria, BC
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Posted 8 May 2024 10:54 am Re: 10 string C6 tunings
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| Frank James Pracher wrote: |
I recently acquired a double neck Alkire E-Harp that I'm getting into shape.
What's a good 10 string C6 tuning? I had an 8 string in the past and I really liked
F
A
C
E
G
A
C
E |
I’m not sure, but I think this has been typed upside down?
At any rate there is the 10 string Robinson tuning that is identical to yours with the addition of two more strings,
Robinson “C6” – F A C E G A C E G D (pedal steel C6 tuning)
I can’t see that D being pitched higher than the high G… maybe someone can clarify/confirm that it’s pitched between the C and E strings?
_________________
Current Tunings:
6 String | D – D A D F# A D
7 String | D9 – D A D F♯ A C E
https://papadafoe.com/lap-steel-tuning-database |
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Frank James Pracher
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 8 May 2024 11:07 am Re: 10 string C6 tunings
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| Allan Revich wrote: |
I’m not sure, but I think this has been typed upside down?
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It's low to high... I saw a tuning written that way in an old post so I just did followed that protocol.
_________________
"Don't be mad honey, but I bought another one" |
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Bill McCloskey
From:
Nanuet, NY
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Posted 8 May 2024 12:15 pm
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Here are some 10 string tunings I collected (L2H)
E13: E B D E F# G# B C# E G#
Tom Morrell: E D E F# G# B C# E F# G#
C Diatonic: C E F G A B C E d f
C6/A7: A C C# E G A C E b d
C6: F A C E G A C E G d
B11/A6: B F# A C# D# E F# A C# E
_________________
Check out the Steel Guitar Union Hall Youtube Channel https://www.youtube.com/@steelguitarunionhall |
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David Cook
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 8 May 2024 12:17 pm
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Thanks to Joe for the Bobby Black tuning
here is what I just set my Shobud Maverick up with
D
B
E
C
A
G
E
D
C
Bb |
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Allan Revich
From:
Victoria, BC
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Posted 8 May 2024 5:09 pm Re: 10 string C6 tunings
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| Frank James Pracher wrote: |
| Allan Revich wrote: |
I’m not sure, but I think this has been typed upside down?
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It's low to high... I saw a tuning written that way in an old post so I just did followed that protocol. |
Frank, low to high that tuning stacks vertically as:
E
C
A
G
E
C
A
F
Lowest string at the bottom of the stack.
Low to high horizontally goes;
FACEGACE
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Frank James Pracher
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 8 May 2024 7:08 pm Re: 10 string C6 tunings
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| Allan Revich wrote: |
Frank, low to high that tuning stacks vertically as:
E
C
A
G
E
C
A
F
Lowest string at the bottom of the stack.
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Really? I seems like if it's written Low to high I would start with the lowest note... Which in the case of the above would be F...
_________________
"Don't be mad honey, but I bought another one" |
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K Maul
From:
Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL
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Posted 9 May 2024 11:24 am Re: 10 string C6 tunings
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| Frank James Pracher wrote: |
| Allan Revich wrote: |
Frank, low to high that tuning stacks vertically as:
E
C
A
G
E
C
A
F
Lowest string at the bottom of the stack.
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Really? I seems like if it's written Low to high I would start with the lowest note... Which in the case of the above would be F... |
Rabbit hole warning!
However….it makes more vertical sense to ME to lay it out as it looks in front me. Thus the lower notes are on the bottom. Horizontal layout I’ll reserve for ten or twelve others to respond to. Haha!
_________________
Kevin Maul: Airline, Beard, Clinesmith, Donner, Evans, Excel, Fender, Fluger, Gibson, Hilton, Ibanez, Justice, K+K, Live Strings, MOYO, National, Oahu, Peterson, Quilter, Rickenbacher, Sho~Bud, Supro, TC, Ultimate, VHT, Williams, X-otic, Yamaha, ZKing. |
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Frank James Pracher
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 9 May 2024 12:09 pm
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Thanks for the warning.. lol. No matter how it's written with the "core" 6 string tuning in the mix it makes it easy enough to figure out.
Going to be fun to do some experimenting!
_________________
"Don't be mad honey, but I bought another one" |
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J D Sauser
From:
Wellington, Florida
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Posted 23 May 2024 3:29 am
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D
E
C
A
G
E
C
A
F
D
#7 C (Maj->)
#8 A (minor ->)
#9 F (Maj ->)
#10 D (minor ->)
A and D are the respective relative minor "root-trackers" (Maurice Anderson "Jargon") to their Major root-trackers C, respectively F above, and are thus also a 4th/5th apart respectively from each others as the Major trackers are.
F(Maj) is the IV to C(Maj)
So I can root thru all changes in all 12 keys, Major, Dom, minor, halfDim & dim, within 3 frets... so four times over along a 12 fret octave.
I used to play a "Jerry Byrd"-C6th with a C# and Maurice convinced me to ditch it for A, F, D... pointing at the bottom D-string on his S12 lap steel "I couldn't be without it!"
While I understand JB's rationale on the C# on a 7 or 7 string tuning, giving him the Maj3rd to the A7th and thus the possibility to alude to 2 more chord qualities (Dom & HalfDim) without being forced to slant, I never looked back.
It does though require the F to make sense.
With that, keep in mind that the bottom D is also the Maj.3rd of BbMaj9th!
... J-D.
_________________
__________________________________________________________
Was it JFK who said: Ask Not What TAB Can Do For You - Rather Ask Yourself "What Would B.B. King Do?"
A Little Mental Health Warning:
Tablature KILLS SKILLS.
The uses of Tablature is addictive and has been linked to reduced musical fertility.
Those who produce Tablature did never use it.
I say it humorously, but I mean it. |
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Gerald K. Robbins
From:
South Coast Oregon, USA
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Posted 23 May 2024 5:40 pm
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Wonderful lot of info here on just one thread.
Newby question.
Is there one of these tunings that might be considered a more "standard" choice ?
I can recognize the ACEGACEG for 8,
Then what about the lower C&F for 10 ?
Are they used or needed?
bkentr |
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J D Sauser
From:
Wellington, Florida
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Posted 23 May 2024 10:01 pm
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| Gerald K. Robbins wrote: |
Wonderful lot of info here on just one thread.
Newby question.
Is there one of these tunings that might be considered a more "standard" choice ?
I can recognize the ACEGACEG for 8,
Then what about the lower C&F for 10 ?
Are they used or needed?
bkentr |
Steel Guitar Tunings are generally a CHORD.
C6th has the root, Major third, fifth and a sixth degree (A).
Many chords share the same notes. In this case, C6th, counting from it’s 6th degree (A) on up, can also be seen as Am7th. It’s called “The Relative minor”. So it’s both, C6th or Am7th.
Adding more notes in the bass can create more chords. An F in the base (as the standard C6th PSG setup typically has) turns the whole tuning from that note on up into a now 5-note FMaj9th: Root, Maj.3rd, fifth, Maj.7th, 9th.
As FMaj also carries the shared note of it’s relative minor (Dm), EVEN when this F has no 6th degree present, most of that tuning will have “Dm11th” in it.
You might question the need for repeats of chords of the same quality (type of chords), but it is important to have similar chords available at a certain distance, ideally a 4th or 5th apart of each other, in order to be able to articulate music in all 12 keys comfortably in a more or less “centered” tonality, in other words withot being send into frets too high up or running into the nut.
6th tunings lack a TriTone interval and thus lack acess to a Dominant chord without slants or pulls. Dominant chords also share the same notes as minor 6th and HalfDim chords. Jerry Byrd probably was the first to add an “odd” string (C# to his C6th) which added a Major 3rd to the Am7. So with that he now had slant-free access to pretty much all Chord basic qualities on a 6 and later 7 string tuning.
A similar thing was achieved with the famed B11th tuning (“Sand” is a famous tune which features that tuning) by uniting two different chords into 1 tuning: A6th & B9th. They share SOME -not all- of each other’s notes, but enough to at least imply most chord qualities.
So, versitility iinstead of monotonity is the idea behind adding “odd” root notes to the bass end.
One thing, unless you are a genius like Jerry Byrd was, you will most likely not end with the tuning you started with. It takes experience and developping musical “TheorIES” understanding, to come to understand tunings and defining one’s own style to modify a tuning to personal needs.
So, right now, I wouldn’t worry too much. 10 strings is GREAT.
You can exoeriment with repeating the same tuning-notes into a lower register, find out if you want that high G on top or rather stop at E or even put a D after E.
Likewise low bottom C can easily be cranked up a whole tone to D to see what happens and them be tuned back down to C if that prooves unsatisfactory, all without needing to change string gauge.
… JD.
_________________
__________________________________________________________
Was it JFK who said: Ask Not What TAB Can Do For You - Rather Ask Yourself "What Would B.B. King Do?"
A Little Mental Health Warning:
Tablature KILLS SKILLS.
The uses of Tablature is addictive and has been linked to reduced musical fertility.
Those who produce Tablature did never use it.
I say it humorously, but I mean it. |
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