Boss FX -a new catastrophe!

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

I run through two amps: the TT12 with a 'sig out' to my Roland XL80 for its on-board FX.

Yesterday, I hooked up two Boss pedals (well, three if you count the TU-12 tuner) and the 'chain' looks like this:

Steel into the Goodrich Omni
From the Omni to the DD-3
DD-3 to the CS-3
CS-3 to the TU-12
TU-12 to the Quilter's input.

I'm getting a horrible buzz!!

If I bypass the three Boss components, the buzz disappears.

Is there a proper sequence for such a setup? What might be causing the unacceptable noise?
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Roger Rettig - Emmons D10s, Quilter TT-12, B-bender Teles and old Martins.
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Chris Bauer · From: Nashville, TN USA

Try reversing the order and putting the tuner and compressor ahead of the volume pedal. I’ll be curious if that fixes it for you.

Bob Sykes · From: North Carolina

Are you using wall warts to power the Boss boxes? If so, try using batteries for test purposes.
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Carters Starter, D10 8+7, SD10
ISO Sustainus Ad Infinitum

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

Several possibilities.

How are you powering the pedals? A single daisy-chain can sometimes cause a major buzz, especially when mixing in high-current digital pedals, which can both tax the power supply and add digital clock noise.

Pedal order can also be an issue. Normally, I would put tuner first, compressor second, and time-based (DD-3) last. Ideally, I'd keep the tuner out of the signal path, but if you don't have a second output on the volume pedal (I assume you are using it in active mode), then you have to kludge that with a Y adapter.

So I would add pedals one at a time and see what happens. I would start with the Omni, and then add first the CS-3. If no buzz, then add the DD-3 after it. If no buzz, then I'd try to figure out where to put the tuner. If you can't put it out of the signal path, then I'd put it first. If the simple re-ordering fixes things, then you're done.

If this doesn't work, try a second power supply on the DD-3. I have a Digitech Drop pedal that I use a lot to simulate a baritone guitar without having to drag one to gigs or change instruments. All my other pedals (typically 5-6 total, including tuner) work fine on a single One Spot. But that Drop pedal does not play well with any other pedal - the buzz is horrible. So I just use a separate old-school Boss power supply on it. No buzz.

If the DD-3 isn't the issue, perhaps it's the tuner. Compressors tend to raise the noise floor, but normally don't create a bad buzz - they're analog and generally don't consume much current.

I just find I have to play around with things, and be prepared to add a separate power supply if necessary. You can get power bricks with several totally independent power supplies, but that is total overkill for your situation and mine, IMO.

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Many thanks, guys.

Dave:

Yes, I'm using a daisy-chain 'One-Spot' to power all FX. If that has the potential to cause the noise, then I expect that's it.

I thought they were a solution; must I have separate power-sources for each?? Batteries are an expensive option as I tend to wander in and out of the music room on a whim and leave everything powered up all day.

Time to learn new habits?

Smile

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Roger Rettig - Emmons D10s, Quilter TT-12, B-bender Teles and old Martins.
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Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

PS:

I tried just adding the TU-12 (using the One-Spot) and the buzz was just as bad. That's with just one item.

Sad

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Roger Rettig - Emmons D10s, Quilter TT-12, B-bender Teles and old Martins.
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Chris Bauer · From: Nashville, TN USA

Since you like to keep things plugged in, I'd look into a power brick that uses isolated transformers if the above fixes don't take care of it for you. Daisy-chaining One Spots can work great but sometimes are, in fact, the cause of noise.

Chris Bauer · From: Nashville, TN USA

Just saw your post about noise with just the tuner plugged in... I'd borrow or buy a single boss or boss-type power source if you don't have one and try that with the tuner. If it's still noisy, I'd wonder if it's either a problem with the tuner or something about the power to whatever outlet you're using. (That said, it would be odd if you've been using that tuner and that outlet before and the noise just suddenly started.)

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Thanks, Chris - all options under consideration.

IF I remember to turn off each individual pedal when not required, will the battery (9v) continue to drain? I would have thought not.

At this point, three 9 volts and some self-discipline might be the least-expensive option.
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Roger Rettig - Emmons D10s, Quilter TT-12, B-bender Teles and old Martins.
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Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

I'm almost not going to post this because it's so embarrassing!! But, as everyone has been kind enough to offer their well-founded suggestions, it's only fair that I 'come clean'.

The cord I was using as the 'output to amp' - one of my not-so-trusty (as it turns out) George L cords that 'never fail me - has gone bad!!!

I dug out another and it's as silent as the grave. I checked all the short cords and they were good. That one long cord must have only just gone bad: I'd been using it as a primary connection up until this week. Sad

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Roger Rettig - Emmons D10s, Quilter TT-12, B-bender Teles and old Martins.
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Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

Most pedals that take batteries have a switch in the input jack that disconnects the battery when the input cable is unplugged. So they typically will continue to drain the battery when there's something plugged into the input. This means you have to unplug the cable from each battery-powered pedal.

One Spots work well for me with most pedals. But not necessarily daisy-chained with high-current digital pedals. I had a strange problem where my Drop pedal fried two One Spots after a month or two of use, running solo. That's when I moved to the old Boss adapter, which has been sailing along just fine for the last 6 months with no issues. The One Spot theoretically handles 1700ma at 9VDC, so there's something else going on there - the Drop pedal doesn't consume anywhere near that amount of current, but definitely kills [edit] One Spots. After that, I wouldn't use them to power any of my modern Digitech pedals - I have a few.

I strongly recommend trying to pull the tuner out of the signal path. I just looked up the specs on the Omni pedal - https://goodrichsoundcompany.com/product/omni-lowpro-active-passive/ - says it has a tuner out on each side of the pedal. Just go directly from the tuner out to the tuner and nowhere else - this takes the tuner out of the signal path to the amp. If it produces noise with the One Spot, power the tuner using a separate adapter or batttery. Now try daisy-chaining the One Spot to power the compressor and delay, and run the signal into the compressor and then the delay, and see what happens. I haven't had any problem daisy-chaining the One Spot with any pedal except that Drop pedal. That includes a number of digital reverbs and delays - Mad Professor, EHX, Catalinbread, and others.

This is not a particular knock on Boss pedals, but I generally stopped using them years ago because I am not happy with always using their buffers - when the pedal is off, a buffer is inserted into the circuit. Piling up buffer after buffer in series can cause issues for me. For the most part, all my pedals now have true bypass so that if I have all my pedals off, there's just a straight wire into the amp. There are a couple of exceptions, like my reissue Script MXR '75 Phase 45, which is a dead clone of the original I used for years that finally died. But I only use it occasionally when I want a Sneaky Pete or Waylon type of phase sound, and it's on a separate pedal board.

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Thanks, Dave: much appreciated.

I admit to a somewhat Luddite-like attitude to FX pedals as well as a degree of laziness (hence my ignorance of the Omni's dedicated tuner-out sockets!)

However, I'm being asked to remotely record some guitar on someone's track and I believe that the character of the piece cries out for just a little ambience on my usually-dry Telecaster sound.

As I now mostly amuse myself at home, all this is pure tinkering; I must say, though, that I'm rather enjoying the extra dimension these pedals are giving me. Yes, doing a track for Mike Bell's piano/jazz album will be a welcome challenge, but I'll come out the other side perhaps flavoring things a bit more than I'm used to doing.

And yes: that bad cord discovery is pretty humbling!!! Point taken: I will immediately link the TU-12 to the Omni as you suggest. I will also change the 'order' of the units.
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Roger Rettig - Emmons D10s, Quilter TT-12, B-bender Teles and old Martins.
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Chris Bauer · From: Nashville, TN USA

Glad it got sorted out and that it was an easy fix! (I'll add an 'amen' to Dave's recommendations, though.)

Bob Sykes · From: North Carolina

Yep, me too. Especially +1 the recommendation to take the tuner out of the signal path. I still use my old TU-12 I bought in the '90s for 6-string. I quickly discovered that it changed the sound if inserted in the signal path. Probably those internal buffers.

Just to clarify, I was only suggesting using 9V batteries for troubleshooting purposes. They are great for isolating problems (especially noise) but would be pretty $pendy for regular use. I've drained countless 9Vs by forgetting to unplug the input jacks and that was back when I had a working memory.
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Carters Starter, D10 8+7, SD10
ISO Sustainus Ad Infinitum

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Got it.

Amazing, but taking that iffy cord out if the system has solved the problem.

I have routed the TU12 into the appropriate Omni input.

Many thanks!!
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Roger Rettig - Emmons D10s, Quilter TT-12, B-bender Teles and old Martins.
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ajm · From: Los Angeles

A lot of readers chimed in with suggestions to help out.

I assume that you've also moved things around and made a lot of changes trying to troubleshoot the problem.

So what is the final order of effects and the signal chain?

And are any of them using batteries, or is everything running off of the 1 Spot?

Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

The bad cord ( Embarassed

) was the main culprit.

I have now connected the tuner to the Omni as suggested. The One-spot is now powering the CS-3 and DD-3 (in that order: VP to CS-3 input, linked to the DD-3 and from there to the amp).

There is no appreciable background noise. It's certainly quiet enough for my purposes.

Many thanks to everyone for their contributions; I have learned a lot!
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Roger Rettig - Emmons D10s, Quilter TT-12, B-bender Teles and old Martins.
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Roger Rettig · From: Naples, FL

Is it possible for the three FX boxes to be showing a red power light, yet there's a problem with the Obe-Spot?

Yesterday, flushed with my recent success, I dug out an old Boss 'Play Bus'. I powered via the One Spot and, at first and although it was a bit crackle, it worked.

Then the actual power-strip went off! Maybe a short caused it to trip? Removing the Play Bus seemed to restore things but, although the CS3 and DD3 are lighting up, there's no signal.

Going direct to the amp - no FX - and there's a signal.

Might I have fried the One Spot? Worse, have I fried my Boss units?

I will do a battery test when the street wakes up. I'm pretty tempted by the power block idea: they're relatively inexpensive ($30-60).
Any recommendations?
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Roger Rettig - Emmons D10s, Quilter TT-12, B-bender Teles and old Martins.
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