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Topic: Good Second Lap Steel? |
Donald Vitouski
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 6 Feb 2024 11:15 am |
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| I’m a beginner player with a ‘54 Supro Comet playing rock music. I love the sound of the Comet! It has an edge to to it that suits me perfectly. Can someone explain what makes more expensive models better? I have been playing guitar for ages and know about the differences between grades and brands of those. I’m going to get a second lap steel and am ignorant about them. What could I expect from a more expensive Supro or from other grades and brands? Is there a good source for a comprehensive look at lap steels? What might be a good next one? The Magnatone Varsity looks great to me. |
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Joe A. Roberts
From:
Seoul, South Korea
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Posted 6 Feb 2024 12:01 pm
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I don’t think you can necessarily expect “better” than a Supro.
IMHO Magnatone Varsities and Supro Comets sound better than most of those much more expensive Gibsons and Fender Champs, for instance. Especially for that kind of music. (Not that those instruments are no good or anything).
A 40s or early 50s Rickenbacker would be worth trying for an upgrade as these sometimes come up relatively cheap.
Magnatone G-70s are really cool and I regret not holding onto mine. They have a little longer scale length (24.5”).
Sometimes people want way too much for them but they are relatively inexpensive.
The plexi glass tuners on some of those earlier Magnatones sometimes break, an old Hawaiian player had to use a pair of pliers to tune his guitar! But seems like a lot of them hold up.
My two cents:
You don’t necessarily have to upgrade, having another cheap guitar (or guitars) around dedicated for another tuning to experiment with can be worthwhile.
If you play rock, open D or E, open G, maybe some 7th chord tuning, etc (also good for blues)
Theres so much interesting variety with those old Magnatones and Valco made instruments, and they sound and play great in my experience. |
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Nic Neufeld
From:
Kansas City, Missouri
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Posted 6 Feb 2024 1:23 pm Re: Good Second Lap Steel?
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| Donald Vitouski wrote: |
| I love the sound of the Comet! It has an edge to to it that suits me perfectly. |
Sounds like your the guy who married his high school sweetheart and is still in love 
I guess I would say, if your content with that Supro, a different/more expensive guitar isn't going to necessarily be "better". Think if there are practical complaints with your instrument...if its too noisy, or you don't like the scale or string spacing, or you want to try an 8 string tuning, or something else specific. Those are the reasons to try out new guitars but if you love the one you're, err, with (this is not a great analogy) I would say count your blessings and keep playing! If you just need a backup extra guitar, then you could look at ones with similar specs (particularly scale) or even another Supro as they aren't terribly expensive. Just don't fall into the trap of assuming the expensive big-name steels are necessarily going to sound better. These are basically planks of wood with hardware...and the Supros have a good reputation for their pickups.
_________________
Waikīkī, at night when the shadows are falling
I hear the rolling surf calling
Calling and calling to me |
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Stephen Cowell
From:
Round Rock, Texas, USA
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Posted 6 Feb 2024 1:27 pm
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There are three things about a lap steel... no, *four*, there are four things about a steel:
1.) Bridge
2.) Pickup(s)
3.) Tuners
4.) Nut
The rest is window dressing. For rock, you already have one of the best pickups available... the Valco string-through. Rick Aiello just came out with some super magnets for these, I'm expecting mine in soon.
Fender, for me, has the best bridge and nut going... case hardened rods. Your guitar probably has an angled piece of steel... this is a cheap way to do it and better guitars will have better bridge/nut situations.
Tuners are something that can be easily upgraded on most guitars. Valco used decent tuners, not sure that you'd notice a difference... friction at the nut tends to isolate tuners from the real tuning anyway, that's why you tune *up* to the note instead of down... you don't want slack behind the nut available for bar effort to pull the string over the nut and out of tune.
Look at a Fender steel or a Duesenberg... that's the cadillac situation. But... if it ain't broke, don't change it.
_________________
New FB Page: Lap Steel Licks And Stuff: https://www.facebook.com/groups/195394851800329 |
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Joe A. Roberts
From:
Seoul, South Korea
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Posted 6 Feb 2024 1:47 pm
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I think the Fender hardware being better is only true for the later Champions, the white blonde Champ, later two-pickup Deluxes, and the V2 Stringmaster models.
The earlier Boxcar, Trapezoid, and most pearloid Champions (so all models until ~’54) have the usual, unremarkable nut and bridge style.
This also makes perfectly even string spacing difficult. It is a little wonky on my Custom.
The later Fenders have better hardware and playability but I prefer the pickups and sound on the older ones… would love to see a trapezoid guitar with modernized hardware! |
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K Maul
From:
Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL
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Posted 6 Feb 2024 3:37 pm
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Get another Supro Comet or get a Supro double 6.
 If you’re playing rock I think 8 strings get in the way but it’s fine if you want to expand to other styles.
_________________
Kevin Maul: Airline, Beard, Clinesmith, Decophonic, Evans, Excel, Fender, Fluger, Gibson, Hilton, Ibanez, Justice, K+K, Live Strings, MOYO, National, Oahu, Peterson, Quilter, Rickenbacher, Sho~Bud, Supro, TC, Ultimate, VHT, Williams, X-otic, Yamaha, ZKing. |
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Jeff Highland
From:
New South Wales, Australia
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Posted 6 Feb 2024 10:01 pm
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| Stephen Cowell wrote: |
There are three things about a lap steel... no, *four*, there are four things about a steel:
1.) Bridge
2.) Pickup(s)
3.) Tuners
4.) Nut
The rest is window dressing. For rock, you already have one of the best pickups available... the Valco string-through. Rick Aiello just came out with some super magnets for these, I'm expecting mine in soon.
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Plus scale length
I'm mostly playing solo, open D so I want a solid low end and a longer scale length works better for me, love the 25.5" on my Duesenberg and home built, But the 23" on the supro works fine
Not significant for higher tunings like C6 or high bass G.
_________________
Duesenberg Fairytale
1949 Supro Supreme
1950 National New Yorker
2008 Highland Baritone Weissenborn
2020 Highland New Yorker.
2020 Highland Mohan Veena
2021 Highland Weissencone |
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Joseph Lazo
From:
Wisconsin, USA
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Posted 8 Feb 2024 2:08 pm
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I just went through the "good second lap steel" rabbit hole. I had (and still have) a Silvertone Artist (early 60s, I think), but after hearing and playing the Gretsch Electromatic (one of the new MIC ones) that my son bought, I realized the Silvertone didn't have the "grunt" I wanted for a Lindley type sound. It sounds "vintage", if that makes sense, but it doesn't get that compressed sounding raunch I like. So I ordered one myself. It's an absolute joy to play...easier than the vintage Silvertone, delivers on that classic-country clean, and flat out rocks with overdrive. And it stays in tune well! Pretty affordable at $350. Having a second steel is great, as you can have each in a dedicated tuning with the strings that work best for each tuning.
Well, then I started looking at benders for lap steels. Yeegads. That's a story for another day. |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 8 Feb 2024 4:35 pm Rebuilt postwar Gibsons
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I would recommend something on the order of these vintage BR-9s:
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Chris Templeton
From:
The Green Mountain State
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Chris Harwood
From:
Kentucky, USA
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Posted 8 Feb 2024 8:03 pm
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I have a Comet also. An oahu Tonemaster or similar will have a longer scale length. Your Comet of 22.5" vs 25".
I'll let others explain the pros and cons of that.
_________________
National Grand Console dbl 8, Oahu Diana, Supro Comet and about 20 various elec gtrs and basses.
Complete audio/video studio with i9 processor and 32Gig DDR5 Ram w/all solid state drives. Presonus Studio One (current version) with top of the line plugins from Omnisphere to Eventide.
Over 500 videos here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtG56HleIw9uRPKPbaG1_CQ |
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Daniel Flanigan
From:
Oregon, USA
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Posted 8 Feb 2024 10:09 pm
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I would only buy a second lap steel if you want to keep a guitar in a second tuning, or if you just want to try something different. In my opinion, you won't really get a better guitar than a Valco made guitar (be it a Supro, Silvertone, Magnatone, National), you'll just get different. The Valco guitars are particularly good for overdriven tones, and in my opinion, they're better for that kind of sound than Fender, Gibson, and Oahu guitars. The only guitar you could buy that would match, and potentially exceed the Supro for overdriven tone would be a Rickenbacker with a Horseshoe pickup. In particular, the Pre-1937 "Pat. Pend." Bakelite model B6 guitars would be the only guitar that might beat the tone of the Supro. They tend to be fairly pricey these days, with the average going price being around $1500 or so.
There's also really no meaningful difference between the differently branded Valco guitars, and different models within each brand. As long as it has the classic Valco string-through pickup, it'll basically be the same guitar. So the Magnatone Varsity you referenced won't really sound or play any better than your Supro.
That's the thing about vintage lap steels. In most cases, the differences between lower priced "student" models and the higher-end models are superficial. Take the Supro catalog for example, the cheapest guitar in the lineup was the 1434 "Studio", and the most expensive was the 1466 "Jet Airliner", and the 1410 "Comet" was priced between them. The only differences between these guitars are the body shape, finish and the presence/absence of legs and plastic ashtray bridge cover. As far as quality and tone, they're all identical, so you really don't get much by upgrading from the "student" model to something more expensive. |
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Jack Hanson
From:
San Luis Valley, USA
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Posted 9 Feb 2024 11:14 am
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| Daniel Flanigan wrote: |
| There's also really no meaningful difference between the differently branded Valco guitars, and different models within each brand. As long as it has the classic Valco string-through pickup, it'll basically be the same guitar. |
I respectfully disagree.
There's a big difference between the dual-magnet string-through pickups vs the single-magnet string-through pickups.
And there's a vast difference between the 23" full-scale Valcos and the extremely short-scale budget Airlines, Supros, etc. Many of the short-scale Valcos feature the single-magnet pickup.
I like Valcos, but in my opinion they won't touch a good Bakelite with the horseshoe, or an early postwar Gibson with the wide-oval/racetrack pickup with their AlNiCo magnet slug polepieces.
And most (if not all) of the classic, American lap steels are superior to the modern Asian instruments cut out by CNC machines, utilizing the cheapest fittings known to man, and assembled in sweatshops by 12 year-old girls. |
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Russ Swanson
From:
Illinois, USA
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Posted 9 Feb 2024 4:05 pm
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I wanted another for C6 tuning. SX offers decent build for a fair price.
I was about to pull the trigger on one but opted a used older one. |
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Daniel Flanigan
From:
Oregon, USA
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Posted 10 Feb 2024 1:58 pm
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| Jack Hanson wrote: |
There's a big difference between the dual-magnet string-through pickups vs the single-magnet string-through pickups.
And most (if not all) of the classic, American lap steels are superior to the modern Asian instruments cut out by CNC machines, utilizing the cheapest fittings known to man, and assembled in sweatshops by 12 year-old girls. |
I stand corrected, I forgot all about the single magnet Valco pickups. I was referring to the most common Valco pickups, with the twin magnets and the six-hole cover, which is what nearly all of the '50s and '60s Valcos, such as the original poster's '54 Comet, have.
I couldn't agree more, those chintzy Chinese lap steels, SX, Rogue, whatever, can't hold a candle to even the cheapest lap steel made before 1970. And since many of the older steels aren't that expensive, I don't really get the appeal of the new cheapos. For example, just recently I saw an all original '52 Silvertone in near mint condition with the case for $300 OBO on Reverb. That's what, $150 more than a cheap Asian steel? |
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Mike Christensen
From:
Cook Minnesota
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Posted 9 Mar 2024 3:27 am 2nd guitar
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| There are deals out there. Just bought a nice Silvertone with the stringtone changer and valco stringthru pu for under $300.00. Had been for sale a long time. Several nice players on ebay that wont break the bank. Happy Trails. Mike C |
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