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Topic: Pedal stops on the pedal board! |
Johnie King
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 2 May 2023 1:40 pm |
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Might be a good way too stop part of the cabinet drop!!
Also this steel has pedal stops on the cabinet.
Plus knee leavers have a nice feature an adjustment.
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John McClung
From:
Olympia WA, USA
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Posted 2 May 2023 5:12 pm
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Nice idea, Johnie.
Would these be more solid than pedal and lever stops in the cabinet? Seems like these would replace cabinet stops if so...
I can see how they might mitigate if not eliminate cabinet drop, but then we'd be fussing over pedal rack drop! 
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Johnie King
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 2 May 2023 5:37 pm
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| John the pedal bar is one inch thick aluminum. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 2 May 2023 6:48 pm
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That might help slightly, especially for "heavy-footed" players. Any gain would have to be that from excess pressure applied after the pedal hits the stop. (You'd still have the downward pull from pedals pulling the strings.) Another solution might be an adjustable center support from the cabinet front to the floor, and that could also be incorporated into the pedal bar. Yet another solution would be to isolate the cabinet from the front rail or frame, as Fender did with their cable guitars.
But many modern guitars don't have a lot of drop to begin with. Anything less than a 5-cent drop is not enough to worry about, IMHO. Also, some builders say that most of the drop comes from the changer axle or keyhead?
I suppose it's source varies in different guitars.  |
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Bobby D. Jones
From:
West Virginia, USA
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Posted 2 May 2023 9:15 pm
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There seems to be a mechanical engineering rule or accepted physics principal most engineers use. Place a STOP as close to the ACTION the STOP controls, As mechanically possible.
Heat, Cold, Metal Stress, Compression, Torque, Stretch or Wear on any piece in the operating chain will affect the Stops accuracy.
In distance, There is about 60" of metal Pedal Rod, Cross Shaft, Bell Crank and Pull Rod with 4 90 degree changes of direction points for A Pedal on an Emmons set up guitar, Between the Pedal and the Changer.
That is one of the principals built into a Push/Pull steel guitar's mechanism, Metal to metal stops in the Changer itself, Is one of the reasons their tuning is so stable. .
With a stiffer Pedal Bar, The Cabinet Drop may be worse. |
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Rich Upright
From:
Florida, USA
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Posted 3 May 2023 2:37 am
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There is so much good sounding steel playing out there, I really don't think of cabinet drop as an issue...I doubt ANY steel player listens to a good steel solo & thinks "Wow; that woulda been great except for the cabinet drop".
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A couple D-10s,some vintage guitars & amps, & lotsa junk in the gig bag. |
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Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
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Posted 3 May 2023 9:25 am
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| Bobby D. Jones wrote: |
| There seems to be a mechanical engineering rule or accepted physics principal most engineers use. Place a STOP as close to the ACTION the STOP controls, As mechanically possible….That is one of the principals built into a Push/Pull steel guitar's mechanism, Metal to metal stops in the Changer itself, Is one of the reasons their tuning is so stable. |
Of course, Fender had that idea before Emmons, and Harlin had it before Fender.  |
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Ian Worley
From:
Sacramento, CA
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Posted 3 May 2023 12:52 pm
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Folks have been searching for better mousetraps forever but there are reasons why things become standardized in certain ways over time. Bobby is correct, the problem with this concept is that any slight movement of the pedal bar on the legs, any adjustment of the pedal rods, expansion/contraction, etc. will alter the overall length of the pull train and therefore affect the tuning of the pull at the opposite end of the system.
The pedal and lever stops on a PP are only there to prevent excess pressure on the changer fingers when engaged. The stops are not integral to the tuning of the pulls, with the minor exception of half-tone tuned pulls that can be affected by the stop, but easily re-tuned with their respective half-tone tuner.
The Fender system Donny mentioned is really cool to me, functionally it operates like a more modern all-pull changer with a two piece scissor. All the tuning stops are internal to the changer mechanism, but they're not on the fingers themselves as is the case with a PP. There are no stops at all outside of the changer. Stops on the pedal bar might be useful here, but they're not necessary.
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All lies and jest, still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest - Paul Simon |
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Georg Sørtun
From:
Mandal, Agder, Norway
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Posted 3 May 2023 11:13 pm
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| Bobby D. Jones wrote: |
| There seems to be a mechanical engineering rule or accepted physics principal most engineers use. Place a STOP as close to the ACTION the STOP controls, As mechanically possible. |
Exactly.
-Having stops at the pedal bar will do no good. That bar can, and will, twist and turn slightly where it is attached to the legs, no matter how strong those attachments are.
-Having the stops on the frame, is practical and works quite well, which is why most PSGs have them there.
- Having really solid stops in, or near, the changer, will keep pedal pushing and tuning most precise. |
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