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Topic: Make Me an Offer for this Nice Looking Piece of... |
Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 3 Mar 2023 4:49 am |
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...wood. Beautiful isn't it? Almost a fabulous guitar.
Having seen pics of this early Chuck Back-built beauty a few years back, when it came up on the forum a couple of weeks ago I bought it with the intention of cleaning it up and making it available as a student/starter D10. The listing stated "The guitar has been serviced and set up it plays quite nice and sounds really good" so I was prepared to do some tweaking and polishing, but when it got here there were multiple parts missing, one rod was hanging out of the changer end and bent around the guitar to fit it in the case, many return springs were twisted out of shape, rods and retaining clips were missing. Pickup wiring was broken so no sound, fixed that to find the switch was toast and the wiring needed complete reworking. Definitely not as advertised, as it could not possibly played "quite nice and sounds really good" as it was unplayable and the pickup wiring was broken.
Realizing a complete tear down was indicated I went to work, pulled it apart, soaked everything in solvent overnight, ordered parts, put it all back together, put on new strings, tuned, timed, sweetened, polished. Once everything was perfect I did the red lock-tite thing to keep it trouble-free.
Happy with the result, I was merrily picking away last night when the 2 and 4 string lowers began slipping. Rods pulling, fingers moving, raises working but not lowers. Strings 8 and 9 dropping perfectly, but not 2 and 4. Adding travel to the lever allowed me to restore string 2 (and 9) but I fussed unsuccessfully with string 4 until way past bedtime.
This morning I bit the bullet and pulled the strings off to see what was up with rhe changer, revealing a snapped bolt at the front end of the changer. While I could go for the drill and easy-out and spend another few days cursing, I would far rather be practicing one of my functional instruments than fighting with this thing any more.
I already have over $3k into it, plus over a week of work. Seller who was "helping a friend" has refunded $200 of his own money, but I am done with it. There are a lot of great parts here, including a Russler pedal set, sweet alloy levers, excellent hardware in general, but it still has other problems as well such as warped wood under the changers, alignment issues between changer rods and end cavities, and multiple diameter pull rods.
Make me an offer and come get it, as after two weeks of futility I don't want to look at it any more. Comes with a clean and solid case.
 [/url]
Last edited by Dave Grafe on 3 Mar 2023 7:10 am; edited 10 times in total |
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Gary Watkins
From:
Bristol, VA
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Posted 3 Mar 2023 5:46 am Re: Make Me an Offer for this Nice Looking Piece of...
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Dave,
I am so sorry that this happened to you. The person that sold it to you needs to be kicked off this forum if they do not make it right with you. I was taken advantage of several years ago by someone that is now dead and I didn't even get as much as you received. I'm sending you a private message.
_________________
If you succeed in cheating someone, don't think that the person is a fool. It's just that the person trusted you far more than you deserved. |
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Bill McCloskey
From:
Nanuet, NY
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 3 Mar 2023 6:22 am
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| Bill McCloskey wrote: |
| Ironically, the person who sold it to you claims they make Steel Guitar parts. |
"Selling for a friend"
https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=388917
Last edited by Dave Grafe on 3 Mar 2023 7:10 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Bill McCloskey
From:
Nanuet, NY
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memphislim
From:
Austin, Texas
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Posted 3 Mar 2023 6:43 am
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| Dave, sorry to hear that you're dealing with this nightmare. I've bought and sold a lot of steels through the forum and never, thankfully, had such an ordeal. Although the guitars are usually less than advertised never one like this. I tried to find the post that you purchased it from but looks like the crook must have deleted the posting. I think you should post who you bought the guitar from so that we all know how they do business. If you don't feel comfortable publicly, please PM me so that I don't make the same mistake you did buying from this shyster. |
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Bill McCloskey
From:
Nanuet, NY
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Posted 3 Mar 2023 7:16 am
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Dave just posted a link to the original sale for those who want to avoid being ripped off by this guy again.
_________________
Check out the Steel Guitar Union Hall Youtube Channel https://www.youtube.com/@steelguitarunionhall |
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Dennis Detweiler
From:
Solon, Iowa, US
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Posted 3 Mar 2023 7:21 am
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It's a good prospect for a rebuild. Lots of potential for a good project. The condition and design of the changer would be the biggest question and wouldn't be apparent until it's torn down.
_________________
1976 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics 427 pickup, 1975 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics X-12 pickup, Boss 59 Fender pedal for preamp, NDR-5 Atlantic Delay & Reverb, two Quilter 201 amps, 2- 12" Eminence EPS-12C speakers, ShoBud Pedal, 1949 Epiphone D-8. Revelation preamp into a Crown XLS 1002 power amp. |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 3 Mar 2023 9:27 am
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| Dennis Detweiler wrote: |
| It's a good prospect for a rebuild. Lots of potential for a good project. The condition and design of the changer would be the biggest question and wouldn't be apparent until it's torn down. |
I agree Dennis, I just came to the end of my rope here. Changer fingers seemed rather tight to me but did not bind, certainly not sloppy. Chuck might be able to help but I already took up a bunch of his time looking for parts. Tommy Cass sent me a couple of springs, others pitched in with bits and pieces, and it's still shy a couple of rod retainers and return springs. I just can't devote any more energy to it, my dog is worried about me already. |
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K Maul
From:
Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL
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Posted 3 Mar 2023 9:53 am
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Sad situation. I hope this was just a big mistake on the seller’s part and that he’ll do the right thing. I see no other complaints about him.
_________________
Kevin Maul: Airline, Beard, Clinesmith, Decophonic, Evans, Excel, Fender, Fluger, Gibson, Hilton, Ibanez, Justice, K+K, Live Strings, MOYO, National, Oahu, Peterson, Quilter, Rickenbacher, Sho~Bud, Supro, TC, Ultimate, VHT, Williams, X-otic, Yamaha, ZKing. |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 3 Mar 2023 10:12 am
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| K Maul wrote: |
| Sad situation. I hope this was just a big mistake on the seller’s part and that he’ll do the right thing. I see no other complaints about him. |
I have no reason to denigrate the seller, who appears to simply be facilitating the sale for the family of the deceased owner. Unfortunately I am told the family already has possession of my funds and is not interested in further conversation.
As mentioned, the seller sent me $200 promptly upon hearing from me, my only concern is his sales pitch on the forum stating that (1);the guitar had received service, (2) was playable, and (3) sounded great, when none of this could not possibly be true of the instrument I received. Obviously I would not have purchased it had I know its true condition.
We'll see how this saga develops won't we?
Last edited by Dave Grafe on 3 Mar 2023 10:59 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Bill McCloskey
From:
Nanuet, NY
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Posted 3 Mar 2023 10:55 am
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“ have no reason to denigrate the seller, who appears to simply be facilitating the sale for the family of the deceased owner. ”
Seller claims to make Steel Guitar parts and posts in the builders section on setups. He can’t claim ignorance after claiming the guitar was setup, and played and sounded beautifully. This is outright fraud.
_________________
Check out the Steel Guitar Union Hall Youtube Channel https://www.youtube.com/@steelguitarunionhall |
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Derrick Simon
From:
Ontario, Canada
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Posted 3 Mar 2023 12:08 pm
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| If paid by PayPal,are you able to dispute the sale as item not as described? |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 3 Mar 2023 7:02 pm
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| Refund pending, thank you Mr. Coker. |
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Bill McCloskey
From:
Nanuet, NY
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Abram Wenger
From:
Harrisonburg, Virginia, USA
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Posted 3 Mar 2023 7:50 pm -
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| Another Good reason to buy in-person if you can! |
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Jon Zimmerman
From:
California, USA
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Posted 3 Mar 2023 11:07 pm Relief
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| Good on you Dave, and your dog will notice a difference too. Animals are at times keenly sensitive, if close to palpable upset. Glad for you both. |
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Gary Kaye
From:
California, USA
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Posted 4 Mar 2023 8:34 am Desert arose
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| Hard to believe, so sorry but great you’re getting a refund...almost sounds like a old a British car! |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 4 Mar 2023 8:39 am Re: Desert arose
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| Gary Kaye wrote: |
| Hard to believe, so sorry but great you’re getting a refund...almost sounds like a old a British car! |
The similarities are notable 😎 |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 4 Mar 2023 9:03 am
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Gotta watch... I have had similar results buying on this very forum,, On a couple steels, and an amp.Lost money each time.. Considerable money... However, some great deals were had as well..You just don't really know... I have sold stuff to guys as well, that I might have checked out better, so it can happen to anyone.. Looked fine to me, let it go, and had unhappy customers'... It happens.. Best thing all of us can do is let the buyer know its returnable, with no malice.. If you don't want it back from an irate buyer, maybe you should not have let it go out in the first place... The seller did the right thing.. I hope that he didn't lose money when trying to help out a deceased friend.
This works both ways however.. I once sold an MSA steel in great shape right on these pages.. Young guy said the guitar was a mess, had multiple issues, and a very well know expert steel man told him the guitar was a basket case and needed a tear down and rebuild.. Shocked, I had him send the guitar back at my expense, and refunded every nickel without a whimper..
When I examined the guitar back here, I found the a couple of the nylons were screwed in TIGHT against the changer, causing the guitar to be totally untunable.Young player I guess trying to "tune it up". In less than ONE MINUTE that guitar was back in the same great playing condition it was when it originally left here.. Since that day I have lost respect for the well known individual that told that young player the MSA needed work, when it was perfect, and he had just screwed the nylons in too tight.. btw, he just HAPPENED to have a steel around that the young player bought instead.. Shortly after, I sold that MSA to an experienced player in Wisconsin I believe, that wrote back thanking me for the nice guitar... I later bought a guitar or steel from him as well.. Its all about dialog guys.. Know who you are selling to, talk on the phone, possibly more than once.. I always play whatever I am selling over the phone for the prospective buyer, if at all possible even with cheap stuff... These days a seller or a buyer can lose several hundred or more just in shipping.. Know what you are selling or buying, and know the seller or buyer.... bob
_________________
I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 4 Mar 2023 7:14 pm
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| Excellent words of wisdom from one who knows, thanks Bob. |
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Bob Carlucci
From:
Candor, New York, USA
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Posted 5 Mar 2023 6:34 am
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| Dave Grafe wrote: |
| Excellent words of wisdom from one who knows, thanks Bob. |
Very glad the guy did the right thing Dave.. I am familiar with that sick feeling you get when you just spent thousands, and are looking down a rabbit hole of agony because you came to the realization you just bought a pile of junk with no good way out except to lose a lot of money... I have "eaten it" a couple of times buying real headaches with severe issues, and then selling them as " parts projects" because I just didn't want to go any further... In your case, I think maybe the seller didn't really know what was going on, and was only trying to help out his deceased friend's family.. They probably didn't know much about the guitar.. Just an unfortunate set of circumstances... bob
_________________
I'm over the hill and hittin'rocks on the way down!
no gear list for me.. you don't have the time...... |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 5 Mar 2023 6:49 am
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| Bob Carlucci wrote: |
Very glad the guy did the right thing Dave.. I am familiar with that sick feeling you get when you just spent thousands, and are looking down a rabbit hole of agony because you came to the realization you just bought a pile of junk with no good way out except to lose a lot of money... I have "eaten it" a couple of times buying real headaches with severe issues, and then selling them as " parts projects" because I just didn't want to go any further... In your case, I think maybe the seller didn't really know what was going on, and was only trying to help out his deceased friend's family.. They probably didn't know much about the guitar.. Just an unfortunate set of circumstances... bob |
With no reason to believe otherwise I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt, in any case it's going back completely rebuilt minus a couple of minor pieces and replacement of the broken bolt. 30+ hours and copious parts contributed pro bono. |
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Tom Mooney
From:
Arlington, TN, USA
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Posted 15 Mar 2023 4:49 am Guitar
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| I tried to contact the seller to no avail..I’d like to make an offer on it as a project. |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 15 Mar 2023 5:48 am Re: Guitar
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| Tom Mooney wrote: |
| I tried to contact the seller to no avail..I’d like to make an offer on it as a project. |
Unfortunately that is consistent with my experience, and I'm afraid it may be to your best advantage. PM sent.
Here at the day camp we're moving on with dust-free sandals. |
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