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Topic: Resonator amplification options? |
Cody Coombs
From:
Washington, USA
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Posted 8 Jan 2023 1:13 pm |
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I play an 8 string square neck dobro, my band is doing some songs that have dobro. I can get by on my steel, but would prefer to use my dobro. I’ve looked and done research and have not come across a good pickup solution for an 8 string reso. My other option is to use a sm57 or sm137 and run into an acoustic amp? Not sure if running straight into the PA would sound great as I would like to have a designated soundbox I can change my own sound with.
Does anyone have any recommendations on a good amp?
Thanks in advance.
Cody |
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Howard Parker
From:
Maryland
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Posted 8 Jan 2023 2:15 pm
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I have not found an 8 string reso pickup that pleases me. The amp question is easier.
FWIW, I use the Fishman Loudbox "Artist" on 6 string reso gigs. The amp does have lo-imp XLR inputs for mic and has a effects loop and DI out. Basic effects are built in as well.
hp
_________________
Howard Parker
03\' Carter D-10
70\'s Dekley D-10
52\' Fender Custom
Many guitars by Paul Beard
Listowner Resoguit-L |
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Cody Coombs
From:
Washington, USA
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Posted 8 Jan 2023 2:27 pm
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I see Fishman has a passive or active pickup, it looks to just screw onto the cone and run your input jack out the guitar wall, have you tried those?
In a perfect world I would prefer to be able to unplug my steel and plug right into the dobro, and back and forth for whatever the song calls for. I hope there’s some sort of solution |
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Cody Coombs
From:
Washington, USA
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Posted 8 Jan 2023 2:29 pm
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| How do you use your amp? What microphone do you use and does it create a lot of feedback with a full band? (Drummer, Bass, singer and electric guitar) |
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Howard Parker
From:
Maryland
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Posted 8 Jan 2023 2:49 pm
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I don't use any of the "old style" donut, Fishman pickups as they can be feedback machines on high volume stages. Six string reso's have the terrific Fishman "Nashville" bridge pickup which is coupled to the Fishman "Jerry Douglas" "Aura" pedal.
That's my preferred system. Highly feedback resistant and sounds terrific.
Unfortunately, Fishman has never developed an 8 string variant using the Nashville bridge system.
h |
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Cody Coombs
From:
Washington, USA
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Posted 8 Jan 2023 2:55 pm
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| Can you explain your setup for 8 string through that amp? That might be the easiest option if all I need is an amp and a microphone. Can that amp perform with a full band? |
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Howard Parker
From:
Maryland
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Posted 8 Jan 2023 3:04 pm
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I've played the "Artist" at "stupid" volumes. Never with a mic, which is usually much more prone to feedback under many stage situations.
The amp has tons of power. That's not the challenge. The pickup and/or microphone will be the big issue. There are basic anti-feedback controls on the amp. I cannot predict how or if that will work for you.
I'll mention the other alternative, the 8 string lap steel as a sub for the reso.
This video may be helpful:
https://youtu.be/eMea17Mq54Y
_________________
Howard Parker
03\' Carter D-10
70\'s Dekley D-10
52\' Fender Custom
Many guitars by Paul Beard
Listowner Resoguit-L |
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Cody Coombs
From:
Washington, USA
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Posted 8 Jan 2023 3:06 pm
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| You don’t use a mic with your dobro? |
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Howard Parker
From:
Maryland
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Posted 8 Jan 2023 3:17 pm
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I'll try to be more clear:
I've not found a satisfactory pickup for 8 string reso guitar. I cannot use the 8 string on "electric/high volume" gigs.
On full band (non-acoustic) country and rock gigs where I use a SIX string reso, I use the full blown Fishman, Nashville pickup/Aura system, through my effects pedal board to the Fishman Loudbox Artist. This is my preferred system for "electric" gigs and works very, very well (for me).
I also play straight acoustic gigs on both 6 & 8 string resos, where I use whatever mic I own that is appropriate to the gig.
I think that covers everything (I think).
h |
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Cody Coombs
From:
Washington, USA
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Posted 8 Jan 2023 5:03 pm
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Hmm, well I was hoping for it to be an easier solution than adding all of the extra stuff.
Guess I’ll stick with the fiddle and steel for now and leave my dobro for acoustic/ bluegrass settings. When I’m more efficient with the fiddle and comfortable enough to play it in the band I’ll look into an amplifier to use for that. Always one more piece of equipment to find! Ha ha
Thank you I sure do appreciate the advice,
Cody |
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Douglas Schuch
From:
Valencia, Philippines
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Posted 8 Jan 2023 5:21 pm
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Several thoughts, here, Cody, that may or may not work. First one would be to buy a piezo strip pickup like is used under the bridge of acoustic guitars and other instruments, and insert it under the saddle. If you have a two-piece saddle, you can perhaps wire two short ones together? Or another solution is an offset spider - that's what my Sho-Bro 7-string reso has. You would be then running the feed from the reso into a Jerry Douglas Aura box, same as with the normal Fishman. I assume there are tweaks to the usual Fishman Nashville that would make it sound better, but this might work.
As an example of NOT using the standard reso Fishman, the MSA "Tour Pro" 10-6 uses a variation of a 6-string guitar bridge designed for electric guitars to emulate acoustic sounds - this model (note: MSA's website says it is a "custom" version):
https://www.fishman.com/portfolio/tune-o-matic-powerbridge-pickup/
As for running to the PA: I would suggest using a mic like the Myers which uses a Hi-Z output, then running it to an acoustic pre-amp pedal. I have a Nu-X Stageman Floor preamp that I've used with the Myers, then XLR out to a powered PA speaker and got tone I was happy with. With the Myers - that suction cup is NOT going to hold it to your reso, so consider one of the other methods they have for mounting it!
Good luck!
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Bringing steel guitar to the bukid of Negros Oriental! |
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Tony Oresteen
From:
Georgia, USA
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Posted 8 Jan 2023 5:25 pm
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Call Fishman and see if they have a custom solution for 8 string Dobro rez guitar. They should be able to come up with somthing for you.
888-680-3507
_________________
Tony
Newnan, GA
Too many guitars, not enough time to play
'72 Sho-Bud 6139, '71 Marlen 210
'78 Fender Stringmaster T8 black
PedalMaster D8 |
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Ken Pippus
From:
Langford, BC, Canada
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Posted 8 Jan 2023 8:53 pm
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Listen to Howard. He knows whereof he speaks.
Fishman/Beard put a Nashville pickup setup in one eight string and have said it won’t happen again. |
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Mark Eaton
From:
Sonoma County in The Great State Of Northern California
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Posted 8 Jan 2023 10:20 pm
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| Tony Oresteen wrote: |
Call Fishman and see if they have a custom solution for 8 string Dobro rez guitar. They should be able to come up with somthing for you.
888-680-3507 |
Not gonna happen, as alluded to by Howard and others. There aren’t enough 8 string dobro players out there.
The Fishman “donut” pickup is a joke - I’m surprised they still even sell the thing.,,
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Mark |
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Tim Toberer
From:
Nebraska, USA
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K Maul
From:
Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL
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Posted 9 Jan 2023 9:32 am
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I have been experimenting with amplifying acoustic resonator guitars for over 30 years, and I can tell you that method just turns that cone into a gigantic ear and your feedback in the situation on stage at almost any volume would be uncontrollable. Yes, it’s a very bad problem trying to amplify an eight string dobro. I have tried many different things and finally gave up. The best thing I could get was one of the old McIntyre pick ups on the Spider Bridge blended through a Fishman blender with a microphonic electric pick up mounted near the fretboard. I used an old Melobar pick up that I got from the Smiths many years ago. That sort of emulates the sound of a resonator guitar by itself, but those two pickups mixed with radical EQ might possibly work. I used a stereo graphic and parametric EQ. I took the electric pick up and cut everything from about 300 Hz and up down by as many DB as possible, like 16. Then on the acoustic pick up I took everything below 300 and cut it out by the same amount. And blending it together I could get a compromise. Many advances have been made since then but only for 6 string resos.
_________________
Kevin Maul: Airline, Beard, Clinesmith, Decophonic, Evans, Excel, Fender, Fluger, Gibson, Hilton, Ibanez, Justice, K+K, Live Strings, MOYO, National, Oahu, Peterson, Quilter, Rickenbacher, Sho~Bud, Supro, TC, Ultimate, VHT, Williams, X-otic, Yamaha, ZKing.
Last edited by K Maul on 9 Jan 2023 2:32 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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K Maul
From:
Hadley, NY/Hobe Sound, FL
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Posted 9 Jan 2023 9:37 am
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An addendum to this is that in those days I never used an amp on stage for dobro. I always put everything through the monitors. It’s best if you have your own monitor mix. I still do that most of the time when I’m playing dobro. The Fishman amp that Howard described is very very good however and I would recommend getting one, as I have.
And Doug, the idea of putting a strip underneath the saddle on the spider bridge is the main problem that Fishman and Beard tackled with their method. That’s been tried before, and it picks up so much bar scrape from the strings that it’s really unusable.
_________________
Kevin Maul: Airline, Beard, Clinesmith, Decophonic, Evans, Excel, Fender, Fluger, Gibson, Hilton, Ibanez, Justice, K+K, Live Strings, MOYO, National, Oahu, Peterson, Quilter, Rickenbacher, Sho~Bud, Supro, TC, Ultimate, VHT, Williams, X-otic, Yamaha, ZKing. |
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Rich Arnold
From:
Tennessee, USA
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Posted 9 Jan 2023 6:26 pm Re: Resonator amplifier options?
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| Cody Coombs wrote: |
I play an 8 string square neck dobro, my band is doing some songs that have dobro. I can get by on my steel, but would prefer to use my dobro. I’ve looked and done research and have not come across a good pickup solution for an 8 string reso. My other option is to use a sm57 or sm137 and run into an acoustic amp? Not sure if running straight into the PA would sound great as I would like to have a designated soundbox I can change my own sound with.
Does anyone have any recommendations on a good amp?
Thanks in advance.
Cody |
Hi Cody,
You raise a good question. You might not like my answer, matter of fact you might hate it. I have to add a disclaimer before I start: That is I dislike any scheme that involves using a transducer on a dobro. I listen to a dobro the way a classical violin player listens to a violin. I have little in the way of expert qualifications but do have many years of experience trying to find a good transducer system for a dobro. All of it bad. I dislike any and all of them and some I hate, others I loathe. Not only that, whenever I hear a transducer system being used on a dobro I become psychopathic. I have panic attacks and start hallucinating. My psychiatrist has warned me to stay away from transducerized dobros altogether. 
The best solution I've found over the years is, if anybody plugs in an instrument on a stage, I reach for the lap steel. If everybody is unplugged I'll play the dobro. |
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Howard Parker
From:
Maryland
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Posted 9 Jan 2023 7:45 pm
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Hahaha..
Well,
If I get hired to play a dobro in a full blown electric band, maybe moving around a stage and sound as dobroish as I need to be well, it's good to know that the technology exists that allows me to earn a pay check. 
On the other hand, if you don't have the requirement then there's no need to make the investment.
You be you.
I be me.
h |
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Dave Mudgett
From:
Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee
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Posted 9 Jan 2023 8:56 pm
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I'm facing the same problem as Cody - I really want to amplify my 8-string resonator. Now, I don't really expect to be playing this guitar in a full-on electric band with loud drums, bass guitar, loud electric guitars, and so on. But it might be used in a mostly amplified-acoustic setting with maybe some very light Tele into something like a Champ, and a tasteful (read that as not loud, not over-playing, mostly brushes or possibly hot-rods) drummer.
1. With appropriate signal processing, do you think the 'donut' pickup could potentially be useful in that limited situation, and is the active version any better than the passive version, i.e.,
- Active - https://www.americanmusical.com/fishman-classic-active-resophonic-pickup/p/FSM-RES002-LIST
- Passive - https://www.americanmusical.com/fishman-classic-passive-resophonic-pickup/p/FSM-RES001-LIST
2. Whaddaya think about Jake Wildwood's approach of using a K&K Twin-Spot on the back side of the spider under the bridge? Here's the link - https://jakewildwood.blogspot.com/2020/06/workshop-k-pickup-install-in-dobro.html
Do you think this is gonna basically be the same issue as the strip underneath the saddle? Jake does link to a couple of sound clips. Not perfect, but it does sound like a resonator and I thought it coulda' really used some signal processing to damp out some of the tinniness. My thought is that the extra barrier of being on the back of the spider might help some. Perhaps some type of acoustic insulation around the whole assembly might also help to isolate a bit. But of course, the proof can only be in experimentation. But if anybody's tried it, I'd like to hear what you thought about the result.
I've tried mics. It definitely makes my already too-complex rig with guitars and sometimes electric steel over-the-top unmanageable. But it also generally doesn't have quite enough gain-before-feedback and is too fickle unless there is a serious sound engineer that really understands how to deal with mic'd acoustic instruments - and that is something I can't count on.
I use a Mesa Rosette acoustic guitar amp, which really sounds very good with my acoustic guitars and biscuit resonators. I have a couple of acoustic guitar preamps that work pretty well, and I haven't needed to use them since I got the Rosette. I have a Krivo pickup on one of the Nationals - it has 'acceptable tone' for the kind of situation I'm dealing with if I do a bit of signal processing. I've tried it on the 8-string resonator, and it sounds, again, 'acceptable', and I prefer it to using my Match-Bro with an electric steel. But of course it doesn't pick up all the strings - I've tried contorting it every which way, put magnets and iron slugs on the side to try to extend the magnetic field, but nothing worked. But if they made an 8-string version, I'd just get one and be done with it.
So anyway - I wanna amplify my 8-string resonator, and telling me that it's impossible is probably not gonna convince me. I guess I'm a hammerhead. |
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Jeff Highland
From:
New South Wales, Australia
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Posted 9 Jan 2023 10:10 pm
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If you find the mag pickup sound acceptable as I do then the flat pickups from these guys work well and are really cheap
https://mgbguitars.com/collections/pickups
I use the 6 string model on my weissencone, embedded in epoxy in a timber cover.
Don't know whether it would have enough coverage for your 8 string, would depend on string spread.
_________________
Duesenberg Fairytale
1949 Supro Supreme
1950 National New Yorker
2008 Highland Baritone Weissenborn
2020 Highland New Yorker.
2020 Highland Mohan Veena
2021 Highland Weissencone |
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Howard Parker
From:
Maryland
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Posted 10 Jan 2023 6:30 am
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| Dave Mudgett wrote: |
| do you think the 'donut' pickup could potentially be useful in that limited situation, and is the active version any better than the passive version, i.e., |
To this, emphasizing "potentially", I cautiously say yes. With short cable runs, small stages you can get by with the passive pickup. The install on both is a tad "quirky". Follow directions to the letter.
I started out with the old McIntyre spider mounted transducer pickup decades ago. Similar to the Schertler which is still available and in my case, it sounded ok but feedback was the issue.
[/quote]
Speaking of the Schertler. Dave, this might be worth investigating. It sounded fine. Better than the donut imho. Pricey.
Earlier in the thread, Mark Eaton mentioned a single install of a modified Nashville bridge pickup on an 8 string. Actually there were 2 guitars that were experiments. Mine was 1 of the 2.
It was actually THREE pickups, surgically carved up and reglued together to make the proper 8 string spacing. All I can say is..NO! After the experiment, Paul determined that the basic design would not be economically feasible. It would probably have to retail for $1,000 parts/labor and the market size just did not make sense.
Paul was the guy that worked with Fishman to develop the 6 string pickup which has become the defacto standard in my corner of the business. Fishman dropped all plans for the 8.
fwiw.
hp |
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Howard Parker
From:
Maryland
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Tim Toberer
From:
Nebraska, USA
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Howard Parker
From:
Maryland
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Posted 10 Jan 2023 7:53 am
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Jerry uses a combo Lollar WITH the Fishman Nashville/Aura system. Similar systems are used by just about every major player in my side of the business. (With or without the Lollar)
YMMV
hp
_________________
Howard Parker
03\' Carter D-10
70\'s Dekley D-10
52\' Fender Custom
Many guitars by Paul Beard
Listowner Resoguit-L |
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