| Author |
Topic: Playing with piano players |
Bill Duncan
From:
Lenoir, North Carolina, USA
|
Posted 18 Dec 2022 5:23 am |
|
I play mostly Gospel music and have had the opportunity to play with some very talented piano players. The thing I have noticed about most of them is the self taught are almost always the best to play with. It is my experience that even many very talented piano players are rarely taught to play back-up or lead-swap. They usually tend to always bang out the lead and never use back-up rhythm or know to look for holes to insert runs or counter-point. Then there is the key thing. They always want to change keys to suit themselves and their playing because they have problems with certain keys.
I do like piano/keyboard though. But, their teachers are letting them down...I think.
_________________
You can observe a lot just by looking |
|
|
|
Robert Murphy
From:
West Virginia
|
Posted 18 Dec 2022 6:24 am
|
|
| Same here. Very talented but not for ensemble work. Since the piano is the king of instruments it can do it all, all the time. But the steel guitar can do that too so there's where the arrangement comes in. That's the next level if you will and it can work well but doesn't come naturally for the musicians. |
|
|
|
Charlie Hansen
From:
Halifax, NS Canada and Various Southern Towns.
|
Posted 18 Dec 2022 6:57 am
|
|
I was working on a session one time and had a piano player that played all over everything. I made him put one hand in his back pocket and play that way.
_________________
I don't know much but what I know I know very well.
Carter S-10 3X5, Peavey Nashville 112, plus Regal dobro and too many other instruments to mention.
Bluegrass Island CFCY FM 95.1 Charlottetown, PE, Canada, on the web at cfcy.fm.
A Touch Of Texas CIOE FM 97.5 Sackville, NS, Canada,
on the web at cioe975.ca. |
|
|
|
Skip Edwards
From:
LA,CA
|
Posted 18 Dec 2022 7:46 am
|
|
| I think you guys have been playing with the wrong piano players... |
|
|
|
Frank Freniere
From:
The First Coast
|
Posted 18 Dec 2022 7:57 am
|
|
I typically go to 1 or 2 open mics a week where the talent ranges from raw to remarkable. My take is that many piano players are used to doing it all (including vocals) and don’t want, or don’t know how, to share the music and the stage.
In other news, the piano has one place where you can get the 5th octave C note. By contrast, a 3x5 E9 pedal steel has 14 locations on just the top 5 strings where you can find that very note (e.g., 4th string, 8th fret). |
|
|
|
Michael Sawyer
From:
North Carolina, USA
|
Posted 18 Dec 2022 9:20 am
|
|
I have played in 3 groups with a keyboard player,since 2017.
I left one band because the lady piano player constantly played the " voicing"...
The 2nd band,the guy was ok,it just never got off the ground.
The 3rd,was pure enjoyment.
The old dude,Eddie Fairchild,(RIP)was one of the best musicians i have ever played with.
Stood at his keyboard,with a Strat hangin on his shoulder,and switched back and forth.
Always tasteful,played chords when he was supposed to,and smoked it when it was his turn. |
|
|
|
Bill Duncan
From:
Lenoir, North Carolina, USA
|
Posted 18 Dec 2022 1:31 pm
|
|
| Skip Edwards wrote: |
| I think you guys have been playing with the wrong piano players... |
The piano/keyboard players in the club bands typically are better at back-up and rhythm.
_________________
You can observe a lot just by looking |
|
|
|
Gil James
From:
Louisiana, USA
|
Posted 18 Dec 2022 8:26 pm Can't get a break
|
|
| I play in church with two different piano players who alternate every Sunday. One, who can flat smoke the keys on any type of music is just like you described, no way to get a break or run in. Strictly just comping chords under her. The other, thank goodness, knows how to lay back and chord along to me on steel and our guitar player. I had to train (beg)her to do that though, she's my wife lol. Alot of your Red book Church pianist only know one way, to lead the singer. |
|
|
|
Bill Duncan
From:
Lenoir, North Carolina, USA
|
Posted 19 Dec 2022 4:55 am Re: Can't get a break
|
|
| Gil James wrote: |
| I play in church with two different piano players who alternate every Sunday. One, who can flat smoke the keys on any type of music is just like you described, no way to get a break or run in. Strictly just comping chords under her. The other, thank goodness, knows how to lay back and chord along to me on steel and our guitar player. I had to train (beg)her to do that though, she's my wife lol. Alot of your Red book Church pianist only know one way, to lead the singer. |
There is an evangelist who has family ties to our church and comes to visit a few times a year. He always plays the piano for all the music when there. He is an absolute joy to hear and play with. He naturally does intros, turn-arounds, rhythm, and lead swaps.
_________________
You can observe a lot just by looking |
|
|
|
Roger Crawford
From:
Griffin, GA USA
|
Posted 19 Dec 2022 5:18 am
|
|
| A band I used to play in hired a girl piano/fiddle player. Worst of both worlds! |
|
|
|
Donny Hinson
From:
Glen Burnie, Md. U.S.A.
|
Posted 19 Dec 2022 7:20 am Re: Playing with piano players
|
|
| Bill Duncan wrote: |
Then there is the key thing. They always want to change keys to suit themselves and their playing because they have problems with certain keys.
|
Most key changes should never bother steel players, since all they usually have to do is move the bar up or down. But for piano players, the fingering changes for both hands, so it requires more thought and practice. And since the piano is probably the instrument that most often is played unaccompanied, they get in a rut (just like we do) and get lazy from always playing the same songs in the same keys.
I guess you could put it like this: If you can play a song only in certain keys, you may know the song, but you don't know your instrument.  |
|
|
|
Herb Steiner
From:
Spicewood TX 78669
|
Posted 19 Dec 2022 7:59 am
|
|
| Skip Edwards wrote: |
| I think you guys have been playing with the wrong piano players... |
You got THAT right, brother! 
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
|
|
|
Jason Stillwell
From:
Caddo, OK, USA
|
Posted 19 Dec 2022 8:41 am
|
|
| About a decade ago, I played steel at a run of performances for "Always, Patsy Cline." Our piano player had a reputation for being the best pianist in our part of the country. She was and is awesome at what she does. You can place a pile of sheet music in front of her, no matter how simple or complex, and she can play it note-for-note. HOWEVER, if you pull the sheet music... NOTHING. To her credit, she really learned to use her ears and listen to what was going on around her. Matter of fact, we all had a learning experience during that run. |
|
|
|
Dennis Detweiler
From:
Solon, Iowa, US
|
Posted 19 Dec 2022 8:47 am
|
|
I worked with a fiddle player a few times that could only play in G, A, E and D. Good in those keys but couldn't play at all in any other keys.
Then another fiddler that could play in any key, plus flats and sharps. He went on to play with George Jones and a few other Nashville acts. He was self-taught and gifted with perfect pitch. He passed away at 52 from life in the fast lane.
_________________
1976 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics 427 pickup, 1975 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics X-12 pickup, Boss 59 Fender pedal for preamp, NDR-5 Atlantic Delay & Reverb, two Quilter 201 amps, 2- 12" Eminence EPS-12C speakers, ShoBud Pedal, 1949 Epiphone D-8. Revelation preamp into a Crown XLS 1002 power amp. |
|
|
|
Herb Steiner
From:
Spicewood TX 78669
|
Posted 19 Dec 2022 9:06 am
|
|
In any small combo, but a dance band especially, the pianist is part of the rhythm section primarily, along with bass and drums and, when necessary, rhythm guitar (hopefully acoustic, either flattop or archtop). Soloing should come after the chordal rhythm position is filled.
IOW, I see piano, being fixed-pitch, as the main chordal instrument that keeps everyone on the same page intonation-wise.
A pianist, as noted above, can be an incredible soloist but completely lost when his instrument's function changes from concertizing to accompanying.
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
|
|
|
Floyd Lowery
From:
Deland, Florida, USA
|
Posted 19 Dec 2022 11:01 am
|
|
Every keyboard player I've ever played with knew how to play chords and backup except for one. I pulled him over on break and tried to explain it to him. He said he did not know how to play chords or backup. So, I asked him to sit on his hands until it was time for him to take a ride. However, he got fired before we went back from break. He got in a fight because some old man asked his girlfriend to dance.
_________________
Carter 12 string 4petals 5knees, Mullen G2 3 petals 4 knees
Alesis QuadraVerb, Goodrich Match-Bro II
Peavy Nashville 400 & Session 500 |
|
|
|
Herb Steiner
From:
Spicewood TX 78669
|
Posted 19 Dec 2022 11:34 am
|
|
| Floyd Lowery wrote: |
| Every keyboard player I've ever played with knew how to play chords and backup except for one. I pulled him over on break and tried to explain it to him. He said he did not know how to play chords or backup. So, I asked him to sit on his hands until it was time for him to take a ride. However, he got fired before we went back from break. He got in a fight because some old man asked his girlfriend to dance. |
_________________
My rig: Infinity and Telonics.
Son, we live in a world with walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with steel guitars. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? |
|
|
|
Bill Duncan
From:
Lenoir, North Carolina, USA
|
Posted 19 Dec 2022 1:47 pm
|
|
The absolute best piano player I ever played with was blind. He also played guitar and fiddle. On piano any key was fine. He never had a problem with the key. He was great with backing or whatever.
_________________
You can observe a lot just by looking |
|
|
|
Larry Bressington
From:
Nebraska
|
Posted 19 Dec 2022 7:53 pm
|
|
One of the things I respect the most in the fiddle arena, is the discipline to just stand there and hold the fiddle and not constantly saw, you see it many times so not to clutter the song, and step in when required. I have worked with tasteful piano players but I have had a good share of ground and pounders too, it would be nice to see a pianist just sit there and wait for ‘tinkle time’ once on awhile if they’re an undisciplined ground N pounder.
_________________
A.K.A Chappy. |
|
|
|
Dennis Detweiler
From:
Solon, Iowa, US
|
Posted 19 Dec 2022 9:45 pm
|
|
I saw a one-armed fiddle player perform.
_________________
1976 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics 427 pickup, 1975 Birdseye U-12 MSA with Telonics X-12 pickup, Boss 59 Fender pedal for preamp, NDR-5 Atlantic Delay & Reverb, two Quilter 201 amps, 2- 12" Eminence EPS-12C speakers, ShoBud Pedal, 1949 Epiphone D-8. Revelation preamp into a Crown XLS 1002 power amp. |
|
|
|
Tony Prior
From:
Charlotte NC
|
Posted 20 Dec 2022 2:32 am
|
|
my take on this is Piano players have a left hand which compliments their right hand, but many times it can easily conflict with other instruments, especially Steel guitars and Bass.
Learning how to play an instrument has nothing to do with HOW to play with others in a band environment. This is not different for ANY Instrument.
Engineers learn how to build a Rocketship in school - but did they ever build one ? and even better, can they build one that works ?
Jeff Newman said it and it still stands the test of time.
NOW THAT YOU KNOW HOW TO PLAY YOUR ISNTRUMENT, LEARN WHAT TO PLAY AND WHEN NOT TO PLAY
While I appreciate fine Keyboard players, truth is, we don't play well in the sandbox together. My idea of a laid back OPEN rhythm is not banging left hand syncopated notes in time with the drummer. And yes apparently I have never played in a band with a keyboard player like John Hobbs ! 
_________________
Emmons L-II , Fender Telecasters, B-Benders
Pro Tools 12 on WIN 7 !
jobless- but not homeless- now retired 9 years
CURRENT MUSIC TRACKS AT > https://tprior2241.wixsite.com/website |
|
|
|
Peter Freiberger
From:
California, USA
|
Posted 20 Dec 2022 5:58 am
|
|
| In addition to an overly busy right hand, when they should just be comping chords , it’s also a problem for bass players when piano players play a lot of left hand. Skip is great about establishing a logical pattern a bass player can follow. On his arrangements for Jay Dee at steel shows Skip often writes specific bass parts out, which makes it easy and provides a strong foundation for the soloists. |
|
|
|
Don R Brown
From:
Rochester, New York, USA
|
Posted 20 Dec 2022 6:43 am
|
|
| Floyd Lowery wrote: |
| Every keyboard player I've ever played with knew how to play chords and backup except for one. I pulled him over on break and tried to explain it to him. He said he did not know how to play chords or backup. So, I asked him to sit on his hands until it was time for him to take a ride. However, he got fired before we went back from break. He got in a fight because some old man asked his girlfriend to dance. |
He should have sat on his hands.
_________________
Many play better than I do. Nobody has more fun. |
|
|
|
Mack Quinney
From:
Texas, USA
|
Posted 20 Dec 2022 10:29 am
|
|
Ok, being primarily a piano player and steel player second, (or third or fourth 🤣) I need to speak up for my peeps!
1. Anybody can play all over the singer or others leads. I’ve played piano with steel and guitar players who didn’t know when to back off. This is not a “keyboard” player thing, it’s called being a musician thing. With country music it’s all about the singer. Musicians job is to support the singer period. This means don’t poop all over everything! 😁
2. Playing in different keys on the piano is hard at best. As someone said, it’s all new fingering and really can test your mental capacity. We are products of what we learn and invest time in. Being I play with guitar players and male singers, the keys with sharps are the easiest. When playing with female singers you start adding flats, F, Bb, Eb are ok, beyond that I’m going to get coffee. Some piano players grew up playing in church. A bunch of hymns are in the flatted keys and those players are more comfortable in those keys.
3. In most music the piano is a rhythm instrument unless it’s by itself. (In fact it is classified as a percussion instrument), Just like steel, guitar, bassoon, playing rhythm is boring. I like to include extended chords and transition chord when playing. However the musical space can get crowded if there are a lot of instruments competing. Communication and trading between the instruments for those precious moments is key, and makes the music interesting to the listener.
4. Hell yes I can play a lead! Give me one every once in a while!
Ok I’ll get off my soapbox before I fall off. Please return to your 10 or 12 strings and pedals! 😀
_________________
76 Emmons Push Pull, Williams 600, ShoBud Pro I, MSA Classic, Remington SteelMaster dbl 8, MSA Super Slide dbl 8, Gold Tone 6, And other instruments and equipment I can't afford. |
|
|
|
Skip Edwards
From:
LA,CA
|
Posted 20 Dec 2022 12:23 pm
|
|
| Quote: |
| This is not a “keyboard” player thing, it’s called being a musician thing. |
Well said, Mack. |
|
|
|
