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Topic: Chasing Tone (Magnatone) |
Tom Snook
From:
Ft. Lauderdale, Florida, USA
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Posted 13 Dec 2022 10:12 am |
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Aloha,I guess there's no getting around it,nothing sounds like a Magnatone. And to my ears no other Magnatone sounds as Hawaiian as Jules Ah Sees' Magnatone. A close second would be Barney's witch is a different model,but still a Magnatone.
So I'm thinking that maybe I might want to trade my Fender deluxe 8 for a 8-string Magnatone. I'm just thinking out loud.crazy?
Aloha
_________________
I wanna go back to my little grass shack........ |
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Noah Miller
From:
Rocky Hill, CT
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Posted 13 Dec 2022 12:00 pm
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| I'd make that trade anyday, but I'm not a Fender fan. |
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Tom Snook
From:
Ft. Lauderdale, Florida, USA
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Posted 13 Dec 2022 12:09 pm
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Then I guess you actually wouldn't make that trade any day 
Aloha
_________________
I wanna go back to my little grass shack........ |
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David Matzenik
From:
Cairns, on the Coral Sea
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Posted 13 Dec 2022 12:31 pm
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Speaking of Magnatone, here is Danny Stewart with his triple neck.
_________________
Don't go in the water after lunch. You'll get a cramp and drown. - Mother. |
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Tom Snook
From:
Ft. Lauderdale, Florida, USA
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Posted 13 Dec 2022 2:14 pm
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Danny Stewart, great steeler.He's playing a Lyric triple neck.I would prefer a single neck version, if there is one of Jules Ah Sees. Console or lap I think it's G 65-8 or a Canopus 8 string lap like Alan Akakas.
Nice tone from the Canopus.
Aloha
_________________
I wanna go back to my little grass shack........ |
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Glenn Wilde
From:
California, USA
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Posted 13 Dec 2022 4:59 pm
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| S8 Magnatones are very rare, good luck. |
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Nic Neufeld
From:
Kansas City, Missouri
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Posted 13 Dec 2022 5:44 pm
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D8 or T8 double pickup Maggies aren't incredibly rare, or at least weren't exceptionally expensive when they came up for sale when I was looking a few years back. But here's my perspective...
So, I was chasing Jules Ah See's tone, myself. The Tapa Room Tapes, which I was very fortunately introduced to within months of starting to learn steel, hit me hard! As a brief aside, it reminds me of when I was a teenager in the 90s, and as a bassist, I sought out a Rickenbacker bass and any number of tube or overdrive pedals trying to get the Chris Squire of Yes sound, I was obsessed. But back to steel.
I eventually got a D8, for about $1k, in the exact same style as the D8 that Jules used in the Tapa Room (my one regret, this one doesn't have the Magnatone nameplate, but it is the dual pickup per neck model). Now, I love that guitar...I've gigged with it, recorded in a studio with it. It has mojo. The electronics are goofy...the necks are not balanced in output (Alan Akaka says he has the same problem with the one he owns...that was Jules' personal guitar, given to him by Benny Kalama!) and the tone knob is supremely weird (reminds me of how a linear taper pot might work on a tone knob). It has a sound I like...but if you heard a record of me...it sounds, well, so much more like me than Jules. In fact, I recorded a version of Sand on it, and a year later I rerecorded it with a SX 8 string (about 180 bucks, plus an aftermarket pickup) and honestly because I had worked so much more at it, that version has so much more Jules in it than me earlier on the Magnatone.
Basically what I'm saying is...don't expect it to sound like Jules...it is a quirky, lovely instrument that can sound great, but as I found, you will still sound like you.  I started with a Stringmaster T8, and I still think I prefer the Magnatone to that guitar, but also recognize I've got a huge romantic/idealistic bias towards the Magnatone. Now, compare that to the Fender 400 I own, which honestly sounds terrible, either because of the poorly set up mechanics killing bass and sustain, or something else. But that's an aside.
To me Barney and Jules sound a lot different, there's something about Barney's style like he never dialed the treble back or something. I like them both. But basically I think the guitar is a small part of the equation!
On a single neck...are there any S8 models that have the dual pickup that Jules had? I've seen S8 models, but they have single pickups...that's going to sound different than what Jules had. Anyway, I think you'd have better luck with a doubleneck with dual pickups, but like I said, having the same guitar is just one aspect...keep your expectations reasonable...
_________________
Waikīkī, at night when the shadows are falling
I hear the rolling surf calling
Calling and calling to me |
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Glenn Wilde
From:
California, USA
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Posted 13 Dec 2022 7:59 pm
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| Nic Neufeld wrote: |
D8 or T8 double pickup Maggies aren't incredibly rare, or at least weren't exceptionally expensive when they came up for sale when I was looking a few years back. But here's my perspective...
So, I was chasing Jules Ah See's tone, myself. The Tapa Room Tapes, which I was very fortunately introduced to within months of starting to learn steel, hit me hard! As a brief aside, it reminds me of when I was a teenager in the 90s, and as a bassist, I sought out a Rickenbacker bass and any number of tube or overdrive pedals trying to get the Chris Squire of Yes sound, I was obsessed. But back to steel.
I eventually got a D8, for about $1k, in the exact same style as the D8 that Jules used in the Tapa Room (my one regret, this one doesn't have the Magnatone nameplate, but it is the dual pickup per neck model). Now, I love that guitar...I've gigged with it, recorded in a studio with it. It has mojo. The electronics are goofy...the necks are not balanced in output (Alan Akaka says he has the same problem with the one he owns...that was Jules' personal guitar, given to him by Benny Kalama!) and the tone knob is supremely weird (reminds me of how a linear taper pot might work on a tone knob). It has a sound I like...but if you heard a record of me...it sounds, well, so much more like me than Jules. In fact, I recorded a version of Sand on it, and a year later I rerecorded it with a SX 8 string (about 180 bucks, plus an aftermarket pickup) and honestly because I had worked so much more at it, that version has so much more Jules in it than me earlier on the Magnatone.
Basically what I'm saying is...don't expect it to sound like Jules...it is a quirky, lovely instrument that can sound great, but as I found, you will still sound like you. I started with a Stringmaster T8, and I still think I prefer the Magnatone to that guitar, but also recognize I've got a huge romantic/idealistic bias towards the Magnatone. Now, compare that to the Fender 400 I own, which honestly sounds terrible, either because of the poorly set up mechanics killing bass and sustain, or something else. But that's an aside.
To me Barney and Jules sound a lot different, there's something about Barney's style like he never dialed the treble back or something. I like them both. But basically I think the guitar is a small part of the equation!
On a single neck...are there any S8 models that have the dual pickup that Jules had? I've seen S8 models, but they have single pickups...that's going to sound different than what Jules had. Anyway, I think you'd have better luck with a doubleneck with dual pickups, but like I said, having the same guitar is just one aspect...keep your expectations reasonable... |
I've seen plenty of multi neck Maggie's too, nowhere near as many as the ubiquitous Fender's that are around, however, the only single 8 I've ever seen in person is the G65 that I own, single Barth pickup 24 1/2" scale, I'm curious about the existence of other styles too, heck, I'd be excited to see another G65-70.
Here's a beautiful D8, I wonder if they come apart like a Fender?
https://reverb.com/item/54339583-vintage-1950-s-magnatone-g-85-dw-lyric-double-eight-neck-steel-guitar-w-original-case-legs |
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Tom Snook
From:
Ft. Lauderdale, Florida, USA
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Posted 14 Dec 2022 3:27 am
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Glenn,they unscrew from the darker wood base the legs are attached to. I can't remember where, but I saw just 1 of the necks separate from the double neck body.That one on Reverb is a beaut.I would have bought it but don't have room really for a double neck.So I keep chasing tone.The Tapa Room tapes had me too, Nic.When I first got to Hawaii,I worked for Hawaii Care and Cleaning. And actually cleaned the Tapa Room at the Hilton Hawaiian Village every night.
I got to listen to Jules, Jerry and Barney every night over the loud speaker. I was in Hula Heaven.
Aloha
_________________
I wanna go back to my little grass shack........ |
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Ethan Shaw
From:
Texas, USA
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Posted 14 Dec 2022 11:30 am
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| Didn't someone say that on the Tapa room tapes, Jules played a fender 1000? |
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David Matzenik
From:
Cairns, on the Coral Sea
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Posted 14 Dec 2022 12:22 pm
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You always have to remember it's record, not a performance, and back then nothing was standard. So, what we often do is try to sound like an old record. I don't like Barney's or Santo's sound, but that might be the recording.
_________________
Don't go in the water after lunch. You'll get a cramp and drown. - Mother. |
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Nic Neufeld
From:
Kansas City, Missouri
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Posted 14 Dec 2022 3:21 pm
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| Ethan Shaw wrote: |
| Didn't someone say that on the Tapa room tapes, Jules played a fender 1000? |
I think Basil Henriques has implied that as a possibility...while I respect his opinion (and his mastery of the Fender pedal steel) greatly, I'm still a bit skeptical of that for a few reasons:
* All the pictures of Jules in the Tapa Room, he's got the Magnatone (or two)
* Alan said, per Benny Kalama from whom he was given Jules' old Magnatone, that Jules had two of them at least, one that stayed in the Tapa Room and one used outside for recording Hawaii Calls
* There's a track where Alfred dedicates the song to David Kupele's wife who just had a son...a little web research on my end tracked it down to estimate the date being February 1958. Fender apparently began producing these guitars in 1957, so it does sound a tiny bit "early" for it to have made its way to the islands and been adopted. Possible, just not as likely, perhaps.
* The sound...I feel like the later Jules-on-the-1000 records have a much thinner tone, maybe with a bit less sustain. But I don't put too much stock in this! It's really hard to identify a guitar just by sound.
* Hearing actual pedal mechanisms...in the songs where Jules does use a 1000, he is subtle...but you can hear it when he does it, usually. Same when Billy Hew Len did it...it wasn't country style pedal of course but you could hear when he used the pedals. A non-subtle use from Jules is at the end of Alfred Apaka's Princess Pupule...he flats the second string in a C6 type tuning to get a major 7. I can find no such artifacts of that in the Tapes, and man I've listened to them a lot, you'd think I'd have caught one by now.
Could be wrong but I'm still on team Magnatone. Neat to hear about cleaning the Tapa Room...I made my first pilgrimage to the islands in 2019, and hung a red carnation lei on the statue of Alfred there in the Tapa Tower (it was his 100th birthday) but the Tapa Room itself is long since demolished...
_________________
Waikīkī, at night when the shadows are falling
I hear the rolling surf calling
Calling and calling to me |
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