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Topic: Advice for DI Recording Pedal Steel |
Darren Mortillaro
From:
Nevada, USA
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Posted 16 Nov 2022 8:46 am |
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Any advice on recording pedal steel direct?
Looking for a Nashville 1960's sound. I presume all the classic country records used Fender Twins.
If I go with the Sarno Revelation or Sarno V8 or Teleonics Pre-1000, how exactly would I get speaker emulation? Would that be best achieved with software or the Universal Audio OX or some sort of cab emulation box?
Would the Axe FX III be a better option for DI recording pedal steel? I'm looking for something professional quality without having to mic an amp. Something ideally with a headphone jack for practice.
Lastly, maybe the Universal Audio "woodrow" or "dream '65" would be a good option? My worry is that those might not be professional quality as they're unbalanced and don't have the pickup load features of the Sarno revelation or blackbox. |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 20 Nov 2022 8:58 am
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I use a Sarno V8 for direct recording. No speaker emulation or plug ins. Sounds great. I regularly do commercial release recordings for people with it.
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Bob |
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Dale Rottacker
From:
Walla Walla Washington, USA
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Darren Mortillaro
From:
Nevada, USA
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Posted 21 Nov 2022 10:10 am
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| Bob Hoffnar wrote: |
| I use a Sarno V8 for direct recording. No speaker emulation or plug ins. Sounds great. I regularly do commercial release recordings for people with it. |
Cool. Thanks Bob. I know speakers filter out a lot of frequencies that are important for electric guitar. I presume no speaker or speaker emulation helps with clarity. But is it a modern hi-fi sound? I never liked the SS Peavey sound, and am looking for something with more warmth.
Maybe PSG is like electric bass, where it's best to DI without speaker emulation? Also, do you record clean and apply your reverbs and delays in the DAW? What about compression? Are you using hardware compression, no compression, or software compression?
Lastly, do you know the difference between the V8 and the Revelation? Is the V8 more of a 1950's sound? |
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Jim Fogle
From:
North Carolina, Winston-Salem, USA
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Posted 21 Nov 2022 4:49 pm Sarno Music Solutions Steel Guitar Black Box?
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Not trying to hijack the thread but quick question for Dale Rottacker
Dale, are you referring to the Sarno Music Solutions Steel Guitar Box Box? https://www.sarnomusicsolutions.com/products/steel-guitar-black-box.html
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Remembering Harold Fogle (1945-1999) Pedal Steel Player
Dell laptop Win 10, i3, 8GB, 480GB
2024 BiaB UltraPlus PAK
Cakewalk by Bandlab Computer DAW
Zoom MRS-8 8 Track Hardware DAW |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 21 Nov 2022 7:50 pm
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But is it a modern hi-fi sound? I never liked the SS Peavey sound, and am looking for something with more warmth.
The V8 is an octal tube path. Great response and not sterile.
Also, do you record clean and apply your reverbs and delays in the DAW? What about compression? Are you using hardware compression, no compression, or software compression?
I generally record my delays and all before the V8 but not always. I will sometimes blend in the reverb and delay and maybe some EQ in post. I have access to some amazing hardware so I will use a Neve 1073LB pre amp into a 1073EQ as my channel strip. I have been into Pendulum Audio compressors for a touch of focus and a Pultec EQM-1S3 to beef it up a little. The fancy stuff is great but not really necessary. The V8 into whatever pre you got will sound awesome.
Lastly, do you know the difference between the V8 and the Revelation?
Think of the Revelation like a perfect Fender Showman head and the V8 as a more full rounded sound. The Octal tube thing is very very cool. Both will give you that tube tactile response.
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Bob |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 25 Nov 2022 5:51 am
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| I use Roland's Street Cube, taking the stereo headphone out to a pair of input channels. The "Mic" preamp is excellent for clean PSG, as are the onboard effects, and there are several amp modeling options available for grittier work. My recording engineer loves it for sound quality and convenience, and we no longer haul the Vibroverb to the studio unless we are recording 6-string parts. |
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Dale Rottacker
From:
Walla Walla Washington, USA
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Darren Mortillaro
From:
Nevada, USA
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Posted 10 Dec 2022 12:22 pm
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Interesting that your stacking the preamps, V8 to the 1073LB. I've never tried that. Does this introduce distortion?
Do you use a Sarno Black Box to "load" the pickup impedance? Not sure I understand this tech, but it's interesting.
Interesting that you apply your delay before your V8. Does this mean you're running a mono delay? No stereo time based effects?
So is your setup something like:
PSG -> Black Box -> Volume Pedal -> Mono Delay -> V8 -> 1073LB line level -> 1073EQ -> pendulum OCL500 -> Audio Interface?
Lastly, so cab emulation isn't important for recording Pedal Steel?
Thanks again for your help. I'm looking into setting up a new DI rig.
| Bob Hoffnar wrote: |
But is it a modern hi-fi sound? I never liked the SS Peavey sound, and am looking for something with more warmth.
The V8 is an octal tube path. Great response and not sterile.
Also, do you record clean and apply your reverbs and delays in the DAW? What about compression? Are you using hardware compression, no compression, or software compression?
I generally record my delays and all before the V8 but not always. I will sometimes blend in the reverb and delay and maybe some EQ in post. I have access to some amazing hardware so I will use a Neve 1073LB pre amp into a 1073EQ as my channel strip. I have been into Pendulum Audio compressors for a touch of focus and a Pultec EQM-1S3 to beef it up a little. The fancy stuff is great but not really necessary. The V8 into whatever pre you got will sound awesome.
Lastly, do you know the difference between the V8 and the Revelation?
Think of the Revelation like a perfect Fender Showman head and the V8 as a more full rounded sound. The Octal tube thing is very very cool. Both will give you that tube tactile response. |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 12 Dec 2022 6:21 am
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I don’t use a black box. If the input of your interface has any sort of level control it is a pre amp. It’s actually hard to find a mid/low priced interface that has inputs with no pre amp on the way in. The Neve is just a really good one.
On a fundamental level I look at the V8 like it’s the amp I am micing
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Bob
Last edited by Bob Hoffnar on 12 Dec 2022 6:31 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 12 Dec 2022 6:29 am
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Oh yea I forgot to,answer: I have not found a cab simulator that I like yet. The V8 sounds awesome already. I have also used a Milkman “the amp” for direct recording and it sounded great too.
BTW: the new modeling amps are getting scary good.
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Bob |
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Dave Falk
From:
Michigan, USA
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Posted 19 Dec 2022 6:27 am Cab Simulator?
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| Bob Hoffnar wrote: |
Oh yea I forgot to,answer: I have not found a cab simulator that I like yet. The V8 sounds awesome already. I have also used a Milkman “the amp” for direct recording and it sounded great too.
BTW: the new modeling amps are getting scary good. |
Bob, I go direct from my Stage One into my Apollo Twin Duo then use the UA 610 Tube Preamp and add reverb (Abby Road Reverb Plates) into Logic Pro.
My question for you is what is a Cab Simulator? and why would you use it?
thank you,
Dave |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 21 Dec 2022 8:56 pm
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David,
A cab simulator is a digital model or EQ setting or something else that makes it sound like you are playing through a speaker cabinet. They are a part of most amp modeling plugins and a bunch of pedalboard amps. It is a common term.
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Bob |
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Dave Grafe
From:
Hudson River Valley NY
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Posted 22 Dec 2022 4:51 am
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| I have gotten excellent results in the studio using the headphone output from my Roland Cube Street to feed a pair of recording preamps. The tone and effects from the Roland are superb, and the recording engineers all love the ease of connection as well as the great sound. |
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Bob Hoffnar
From:
Austin, Tx
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Posted 23 Dec 2022 12:01 pm
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| Dave Grafe wrote: |
| I have gotten excellent results in the studio using the headphone output from my Roland Cube Street to feed a pair of recording preamps. The tone and effects from the Roland are superb, and the recording engineers all love the ease of connection as well as the great sound. |
Dave, I have also used the DI from my Milkman half and half and it sounded great too. Overall I think that the sound quality of current amps is really good. All improvements after that seem to be incremental.
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Bob |
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b0b
From:
Cloverdale, CA, USA
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Posted 23 Dec 2022 1:57 pm
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Consider the Strymon Iridium. You can download and install the speaker/cab/mic combinations of your choice as standard impulse response files from various vendors. It supports 3 amp/speaker presets. I'm using it with 2 light-wight powered PA speakers for performing, or direct into my Zoom R8 recorder for home recording. Haven't tried it in a studio, though.
https://www.strymon.net/product/iridium/
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-𝕓𝕆𝕓- (admin) - Robert P. Lee - Recordings - Breathe - D6th - Video |
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John Macy
From:
Rockport TX/Denver CO
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Posted 24 Dec 2022 8:08 am
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I use the guitar-black box-vp-V8 and then to a Neve or API preamp if available or a custom transformer box I have. . Something about having two tube based products in the chain just makes it work so well. Kudos to Brad Sarno!
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John Macy
Rockport, TX
Engineer/Producer/Steel Guitar |
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