Rags, drags, marches and cakewalks

Mike Neer · From: NJ

A large part of the early repertoire of steel guitar is comprised of rags and marches, and learning these is a very important part of the tradition. Going back to when I was playing my tricone, I envisaged playing some serious rag repertoire from composers like Joplin, Lamb, Jelly Roll Morton, Gottschalk and many others. In fact, one of the things that really excites me about listening to Thelonious Monk is hearing the history of American music at his fingertips. I am really excited at the prospect of playing this music and maybe attempting to bring it into a slightly more modern context, but all on the lap steel. The added bonus is that it inspires me to compose. I am a hardcore lover of this music and constantly seek out newer compositions. William Bolcom is another of my favorites.

Anyway, this is what I am talking about. This little Maple Leaf Rag work-in-progress is far from polished, but I have the technique and the know-how to make this stuff work that I didn’t have back then, and I have some grandiose ideas about where to go with it. I took many liberties with this (and mistakes), and some purists are really uptight about that. I completely understand that but hey, this is steel guitar. Very Happy

The rhythm is the most important part. It’s almost like the right hand is drumming or playing piano. The rhythm has to be tight. The pitch can be improved, but without solid time it’s all for nothing.
Here is the MLR work-in-progress.

https://youtu.be/MBvc8tEMBMs
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http://mikeneer.com

Andy Volk · From: Boston, MA

Mike, you have such a restless curiosity about music! This may be the start of something great. I really enjoyed hearing this on the steel. I'm not well-informed about this genre so will anticipate learning more about it through your posts/recordings. Another great example that proves the steel guitar is much more wide open to all kinds of music than many people assume.
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Bill Hatcher · From: Atlanta Ga. USA

Very ambitious and musically rewarding.

The hurdle is the left hand of the piano. All those bass and chord rhythms against the right hand of the piano playing all the melody stuff. Translating that to a lap steel takes a lot of work. I applaud your efforts.

I don’t know if I will ever be able to attempt a rag, but hearing you play this is encouraging to try one.

Mike Neer · From: NJ

Bart Bull · From: New Orleans, USA/Paris FR/Berkeley USSR

You couldn't be more right about Monk in this context, in his oblique sense of stride emerging from rags and cakewalks.
This is a Pandora's box you're messin' with, a magic mirror, a rabbit hole that leads to a forgotten and now foreign land of minstrelsy, coonsongs, cakewalks, gazebo ornet solos, ill-remembered dance crazes, parlor guitars and the dreaded Spanish Tinge.
Once you find out that a vast amount of the allegedly ancient fiddle tune repertoire came in fact from the blackface minstrel stage, and that much of the mythology of the pristine white Petri dish of the Appalachians serving as a stronghold of the pure Scots/Irish/Old English/Elizabethan ballad was large a faked-up invention of eugenics advocates... well, by then, it's too late....
_________________
Undoubtedly the finest pedal steel player in Paris' 18th Arrondissement
Disaster of Touch, Tone & Taste; Still mastering the manifold mysteries of the Sho-Bud Maverick
Supro, Oahu, pin-striped Rus-Ler SD-10, y tiger-stripe-painted Stella
Hohner Corona Dos en Fa, y Gabanelli en Sol

Peter Funk · From: Germany

That sounds really great! Scott Joplin would love it Smile

Tim Toberer · From: Nebraska, USA

I just listened to that again and can't say I have heard anything quite like it. You really capture the ragtime feel and that doesn't look easy! The low bass note seems to play a really important role in the syncopation. Do you have a low C down there ? If remember correctly

Dave Mudgett · From: Central Pennsylvania and Gallatin, Tennessee

This is a really cool and ambitious project. Even on guitar, this kind of stuff is non-trivial. And I completely agree about Monk. He was an absolute encyclopedia of earlier styles that he very uniquely incorporated into a more modern approach. I think that is one of the many things that made him so important and, actually, hard to replicate. One has to go back and dig through the original sources to understand where he was really coming from, IMO. I think this is a general issue for a lot of musicians who try to start from an already-highly-developed form that critically depends on lots of earlier approaches. E.g., trying to learn blues but starting with Clapton, Page, or Bonamassa, and that is not a slap at any of them. But I think it's pretty important to understand where they were coming from, where their sources were coming from, and so on.

Stefan Robertson · From: Hertfordshire, UK

Cool never heard of ragtime but I am pretty sure I heard some songs.

Too young and dumb I guess. Laughing

Monk referred to Cm7 as an Eb6 and Barry Harris figured out why.

Here enters Barry Harris 6th Diminished Chords & scales - My mind blew. This is what I'm digesting but immediately I could hear your diminished passing movements as Barry described in your ragtime piece.

Did that come from Ragtime? Dunno but it truly seems to explain functional harmony movement in western music.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7reOAaveCi0

You probably know all of this already Mike. and its great as it helps me identify where a song is going and what are some options for having fun.

Keep doing what you're doing. Always great. Hit me up when you want to geek out on some 6th diminished stuff as that is all I'm studying hard at the moment. Cool

_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com

"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist"

Mike Neer · From: NJ

I am literally out of my mind with joy right now over the way this stuff is developing. I don’t think you’re going to see me for a while! Very Happy

Thanks for the kind words and for putting up with the rough edges. If I didn’t record these things, I wouldn’t be able to develop them to the degree that I do. I highly recommend doing that. I also tend to get obsessive about it, so maybe don’t do that.

Ragtime music has influenced American music to such a deep degree, but unfortunately it has the reputation of being the music of moldy figs, which is a real shame. I know Scott Joplin was very particular about the way his music should be played. But many of the musicians I admire most like Van Dyke Parks, Randy Newman, just to name a few, have this music deeply embedded in their core.

Stefan, I am very aware of the BH diminished 6th. I studied that for a while years ago through the Roni Ben-Hur book. I also have several good friends who were BH regulars for many years, attending all his classes and singing in his choir.

Tim, yes the bass notes add a lot to the syncopation, so by playing it over and over again, and listening in my head, I am constantly finding new strategies to incorporate it. Technically, it’s a challenge to come up with solutions, which is a very good thing. You can never give up looking for new ways to solve a problem. I feel like Leo Kottke greatly influenced my picking, not that I learned his music, but the way he grooves definitely made me dig deeper.

Bart and Dave, very well said. I have always been one to go back to the source. Early Rock and Roll was the first music I ever loved, and truthfully, going back another 40-50 years you can hear the genesis of it, which is even more sophisticated than what came after. I could never eradicate that from myself, not that I want to, and I still am drawn to music that has that raw quality. Some of the best Rock and Roll I’ve ever heard is Thelonious Monk trio recordings with Art Blakey or Max Roach, say like on Bye-Ya from the Prestige sessions.
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http://mikeneer.com

Bart Bull · From: New Orleans, USA/Paris FR/Berkeley USSR

Hey, Mike:
In the spirit of inspiration, I thought I'd throw some tunes your way.
The central, common thing about this era of music is ... dance. Everybody danced. Music was for dancing, musicians called tunes based on their dance groove way up into the 20th Century, and everything that had Afrocentric influence (which, sooner or later, was everything...) was organized around dance. (Bop put a brief stop to that...)
And the impact of immigration meant that new-fangled dance crazes schottisches and waltzes and polkas and mazurkas got mashed in, too..buck dancing, the Charleston (which white people heard about a decade or so late), slow drags, cakewalks...everything was about dance grooves.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDMOkgSdy3E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2YvhEv7ykM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMnkWjvxGzs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A47TwlZz9ec
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCkkOqXUaZo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QifiyNm6jG4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQVLuR7jj8Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQDNkZ-eDeo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhWI5VvDPgQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUNGQBHGZ5c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0cLQpU3yfw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUZvWQirLfQ
_________________
Undoubtedly the finest pedal steel player in Paris' 18th Arrondissement
Disaster of Touch, Tone & Taste; Still mastering the manifold mysteries of the Sho-Bud Maverick
Supro, Oahu, pin-striped Rus-Ler SD-10, y tiger-stripe-painted Stella
Hohner Corona Dos en Fa, y Gabanelli en Sol

Stefan Robertson · From: Hertfordshire, UK

Willie the Lion Smith. I never heard of Ragtime but enjoying the documentary about him.

Definitely hear the blues. Sounds like Parlour music I would see in Films that had underground clubs.

Really cool. Good luck with that Mike. Stride piano ouch.
_________________
Stefan
Bill Hatcher custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar
E13#9/F secrets: https://thelapsteelguitarist.wordpress.com

"Give it up for The Lap Steel Guitarist"

Andy Volk · From: Boston, MA

If you want to try your hand at steel guitar ragtime, here's a transcription I did a few years ago for the book on my site of vintage arrangements taken from various old steel guitar methods. This one appeared in the Kamiki method in the 1930s but was actually arranged around 1918 and reprinted many times over the years. Note the unusual spelling of the title. I transposed it from low bass A to the more common low bass G played today but never actually got around to learning it myself. Here's a midi file of how it sounds.

https://soundcloud.com/aev/a-kentucky-barbarcue-1918

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Steel Guitar Books! Website: www.volkmediabooks.com

Mike Neer · From: NJ

Jim Kaznosky · From: New Jersey, USA

You are just continually kicking down all doors. I love it.

Stefan - I'm very into the BH stuff. If you haven't already, I'd suggest checking out the youtube channel called "Things I Learned From Barry Harris." Chris is a very generous fellow and I am filled with regret in having never sat in one of Barry's classes. I've been studying this stuff for a few years on the armpit guitar and have slowly tried to work some of this material into steel (badly).

Brian Saulsman · From: Washington, USA

Mike
As a lower tier musician I am unable to offer any musical suggestions. OTOH, I want to say that I find your explorations and passion to be very inspirational. They make me want to play.

I love your music, and your approach to music, in general. I feel so lucky to be in an environment where I can see and hear the ideas of motivated and accomplished musicians like yourself and many others on this site.

Thanks for taking the time to share your journey! Even though I can’t inspire you further, your posts and videos (and materials)are valued more than you probably know.

All the best.
Brian Saulsman
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All the best
Brian Saulsman

Mike Neer · From: NJ

That’s very kind of you, Brian. I just follow my fancy and since I’ve been an avid listener of music since a very young age, I have become very familiar with many syles of music. I have nothing to lose. I don’t earn a living from playing music anymore and it just gives me the freedom to continue to try and find a voice of my own.
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http://mikeneer.com

Mike Neer · From: NJ

I finger drummed a little pattern and added some bass into my looper, now I have something to play along with. This is how it’s coming along.
https://youtu.be/iUFqCVheG6Y
_________________
http://www.steelinstruction.com/
http://mikeneer.com

Bart Bull · From: New Orleans, USA/Paris FR/Berkeley USSR

Drummer's a keeper — he's listening!
_________________
Undoubtedly the finest pedal steel player in Paris' 18th Arrondissement
Disaster of Touch, Tone & Taste; Still mastering the manifold mysteries of the Sho-Bud Maverick
Supro, Oahu, pin-striped Rus-Ler SD-10, y tiger-stripe-painted Stella
Hohner Corona Dos en Fa, y Gabanelli en Sol

Mike Harris · From: Texas, USA

I like your Maple Leaf work-in-progress (well, I like everything I've seen/heard you do on youtube). I did not expect to see William Bolcom mentioned here. I have a theory that Monk was the reincarnation of Domenico Scarlatti, but I'm having a tough time with the proof. Please keep posting your various steel adventures.

Larry Dering · From: Missouri, USA

Ragtime and stride piano share a common theme. I love the stride piano and was drawn to the Merle Travis and Chet Atkins style of guitar playing in my youth. Mike that was awesome and I know you will master it. Press on with your work and please continue to share.

Joe Cook · From: Lake Osoyoos, WA

I enthusiastically support your musical explorations, Mike! Can't wait to hear more.

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