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Topic: Square Neck Metal Resonator for Hawaiian and beyond? |
Lloyd Walsh
From:
San Antonio, Texas, USA
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Posted 7 Sep 2022 5:57 pm |
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Looking for player recommendations, this is a "feeler" question as i'm contemplating a metal body, square neck resonator to scratch some itches acoustically for various styles, especially Hawaiian and older classic country. I see plenty of Gretsch, Regal, Recording King, and Gold Tone instruments (mostly wood and one metal body that's on back order) but how do they compare to going the next level up, and what would that next level instrument be (maker/model)?. in the past i've made plenty of mistakes getting a "starter" instrument then wanting to take the next leap fairly quickly and losing out in resale, so this time i want to at least start somewhere mid level up.
Metal body would be my first choice but i'm not unwilling to consider other recommendations.
So..:
1. Anything out there fitting this criteria that's not gonna break the bank but not be crummy either?
2. Anyone got something like this they're trying to sell or trade for (i have some good lap steels available)?
3. Should i be talked out of this  ?
All comments and recommendations are greatly appreciated. Thanks!
_________________
Hack Professor of Art
Bass player: upright/electric
Lousy Guitarist
Rookie Steel player (pedal and non-pedal)
Instagram Artwork profile: lloydwalsh7405 |
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Paul Seager
From:
Augsburg, Germany
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Posted 8 Sep 2022 1:51 am
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Lloyd, I recently bought a vintage National Tricone. Prior to that I had tried one very high-end and a couple of entry-level wooden-body resonators (aka "Dobros"). I had decided on the wooden Gretsch Bobtail as it was a good instrument for the price but then I found the National and despite this severely breaking my bank, it has been worth it.
I have since tried an "entry level" tricone (I think it was a Recording King) and most notable was the weight when comparing to the originals. I think this is because the necks are not hollow on the "copies". Tonally it was ok but nothing like an original.
Another factor that pushed me to the National is that price difference between entry-level instruments and "next level". It seemed huge and I chose to take the jump and then have something that is re-sellable as a collectors item or just as a good instrument. Steelers are a niche group and availability of these instruments is limited so the resellability must be corresponding so.
I think the tonal difference between a metal body tricone and a wooden body resonator is represented in musical genres. Tricones have a deep tone, more sustain and IMO are closer (but far louder) to an acoustic guitar. They lend themselves well to Hawaiian and blues styles. The wooden bodies have IMO, a faster attack and shorter sustain and are preferred and indeed help define the Bluegrass sound. But either could be played in either genre, there are no rules!
Before owning the National, I used a converted acoustic (nothing of note). When I began playing the real squarenecks, the volume they produce was a surprise and it has taken me a while to get comfortable with it and play freely without thinking that I am drowning out other band members. Actually I am now loud enough to compete in volume within a typical steel-guitar-bass trio but the volume produced is literally "in your face" and I must often concentrate to hear my band mates!
Just for the record, like you I started out as a bass player (elec. and upright) and also consider myself a lousy guitarist.
\ paul |
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Lloyd Graves
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 8 Sep 2022 6:47 am
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I had an 8 string, wood bodied dobro initially. It was mellow and relatively quiet. As I played more I realized I preferred the metal bodied sound of the early Hawaiian players. Though I would have preferred a vintage tricone, they are out of my price range, even if I could have found one I wanted. So I traded the wood bodied model in for a metal bodied, 6 string dobro. (Bernunzio Vintahe Instruments is 1.5 his from me!) It looks just like this one that was offered on the forum a while ago:https://bb.steelguitarforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=381835&highlight=dobro
I love it and think it sounds great. And if King Benny didn't need a tricone, then neither do I. At least not now. For a few more months...
Anyhow, if that metal dobro is still available, I'd recommend it. I really do like mine a bunch. |
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Sebastian Müller
From:
Berlin / Germany
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Posted 8 Sep 2022 11:37 am
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I think when it comes to National style guitars there are no mid level instruments. You either have the china made models like the Republics that you can pimp by putting in more decent cones, other than that you have vintage instruments or new ones from rather small companies, and the new ones are in a comparable price range as the old ones. I still have my Republic and play it rather often, there are many occasions where I don't want to bring my vintage instrument.
_________________
https://hawaiian-steel-guitar.com |
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Lloyd Walsh
From:
San Antonio, Texas, USA
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Posted 8 Sep 2022 1:07 pm
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Thanks for the thoughtful replies, i really appreciate all of them so far. I welcome more if anyone else wants to chime in.
My biggest fears have been realized:
1. No beating an original vintage National Tricone, but good grief, the prices on Reverb and Ebay.. yikes!!
2. The nicer ones made in smaller shops are about as expensive, so may as well get an older one that'll increase in value.
3. If going on the cheap side upgrades are necessary but without anyone locally to take it too i sense i'll end up doing what i wanted to avoid and get derailed and spend extra money to get what i should've gotten all along (vintage or used newer instrument by a quality independent maker).
Lastly, and now Most Importantly:
4. Anyone have a Square Neck National Tricone for sale? Partial trade is a possibility i'd consider too (i have some excellent lap steels towards trade including a Gold edition Asher with palm benders and a Duesenberg Alamo)? Please send me a PM either way, if you have something for sale or any tips of one you know about.
My price gauge so far in the market are Reverb and ebay, understandably the values are more inflated among the ones that are just "sitting" there (been there for months too because the prices are so high). If a fair deal for a good instrument exists it'd be here: no ebay or reverb fees, prices not ridiculously inflated, and no taxes to pay.
Thanks everyone!
I'll leave this here then post something in the "Wanted" section.
_________________
Hack Professor of Art
Bass player: upright/electric
Lousy Guitarist
Rookie Steel player (pedal and non-pedal)
Instagram Artwork profile: lloydwalsh7405 |
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Joe Burke
From:
Toronto, Canada
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Posted 8 Sep 2022 2:06 pm
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| Sebastian Müller wrote: |
| I think when it comes to National style guitars there are no mid level instruments. You either have the china made models like the Republics that you can pimp by putting in more decent cones, other than that you have vintage instruments or new ones from rather small companies, and the new ones are in a comparable price range as the old ones. I still have my Republic and play it rather often, there are many occasions where I don't want to bring my vintage instrument. |
I sold my Republic tricone to afford a National tricone (from early 2000s) that came up used. The National is a better guitar, but I'd buy back the Republican in a second. Even without upgrades it sounded great. |
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Lloyd Graves
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 8 Sep 2022 2:59 pm
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I haven't looked on reverb in a while. Looking now I see several of the same tricones that were there a year ago and the prices have jumped considerably!
I suppose that that is one way to try and sell something. If at first it doesn't sell, raise the price and see what happens. |
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Lloyd Walsh
From:
San Antonio, Texas, USA
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Posted 8 Sep 2022 4:33 pm
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If you’re not in a rush to sell you may as well let it ride, but it’d be interesting to be able to see rejected offers on Reverb if they’d allow that to be seen.
_________________
Hack Professor of Art
Bass player: upright/electric
Lousy Guitarist
Rookie Steel player (pedal and non-pedal)
Instagram Artwork profile: lloydwalsh7405 |
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Lloyd Walsh
From:
San Antonio, Texas, USA
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Posted 9 Sep 2022 9:20 am
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Paul, Lloyd (great name!), Sebastian, and Joe:
Again I thank you for taking time to post replies for guidance, your experience and recommendations are greatly appreciated. Here’s what’s transpired:
I found a gorgeous late 70’s Hawaiian 6 string Gretsch Sho-Bro at Elderly Music, single cone, but I hesitated and and someone else grabbed it. The mistake i made was asking them to send a few other links of other similar instruments as recommendations before pulling the trigger on a purchase, which they did but work slowed me down yesterday and by the time I reviewed everything and settled on the GSB it was gone. Rats!
Haven’t had any luck finding much of anything else vintage in an acceptable price range but did get a reverb offer on a very beat up Tricone, but for a few hundred more dollars another seller had the same model in much better condition, but still I felt both were way over priced so i passed.
I’ve tried contacting Republic Guitars over the past few days without any luck (i live down the road from them in San Antonio). On a whim i took a peek at another guitar shop in the area and to my surprise they had a used Republic, tricone, square neck. So yeah.. here i am..! They’re holding it for me and I’m heading there to get it.
So it’s a Republic Tricone for now. With that said I’m still interested in finding a vintage National so if anyone has something please PM me.
Thanks again everyone!
_________________
Hack Professor of Art
Bass player: upright/electric
Lousy Guitarist
Rookie Steel player (pedal and non-pedal)
Instagram Artwork profile: lloydwalsh7405 |
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Nic Neufeld
From:
Kansas City, Missouri
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Posted 9 Sep 2022 9:35 am
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| Lloyd Walsh wrote: |
3. If going on the cheap side upgrades are necessary |
Just chiming in (maybe after the fact) but I at least didn't find that to be the case. My Republic tricone sounds just fine to me stock. The main thing that needs upgrading about it is the biological component that moves the slide and plucks the strings! 
_________________
Waikīkī, at night when the shadows are falling
I hear the rolling surf calling
Calling and calling to me |
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Lloyd Walsh
From:
San Antonio, Texas, USA
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Posted 9 Sep 2022 10:01 am
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Nic, if that’s the case I’m in trouble! I’ll try my best to rectify it.
_________________
Hack Professor of Art
Bass player: upright/electric
Lousy Guitarist
Rookie Steel player (pedal and non-pedal)
Instagram Artwork profile: lloydwalsh7405 |
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Jeff Bell
From:
California, USA
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Posted 9 Sep 2022 10:03 am
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Good luck with the Republic. I'm sure you'll really enjoy it. Earlier this year I purchased a Royall Tricone (similar to Republic), I swapped out the cones for NRP cones, I stripped the paint off the T-Bridge and replaced the the saddle with an all maple one and I am very happy with the sound. I strung it up with the flat wound strings that Sebastien suggested and I don't feel I need to think about a vintage National for now. It did take some work on my part, but I'm very happy with the finished product. There's a store close to me that happens to have more than a few vintage Nationals and I have yet to go down there to see how close it is, or compare, in general. The thing is, I'm more than happy with this guitar and don't feel like I "need" to move up to a National (for now, lol). I should get down there to see the vintage guitars again, soon.
Here's one that was played there just a few days ago. Vintage National, that is..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgvEsJolnxE |
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Lloyd Walsh
From:
San Antonio, Texas, USA
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Posted 9 Sep 2022 10:36 am
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Hey Jeff,
Coincidentally the Republic has flats on it now, from what the salesman told me. I’m wondering if more has been done inside but not sure how to check/reference the cones. I’ll more than likely post a picture for comment.
I’d be nervous trying one of the older Nationals now if you’re happy with yours. Lol
Thanks for the link!
_________________
Hack Professor of Art
Bass player: upright/electric
Lousy Guitarist
Rookie Steel player (pedal and non-pedal)
Instagram Artwork profile: lloydwalsh7405 |
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Lloyd Graves
From:
New York, USA
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Posted 9 Sep 2022 7:47 pm
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| Lloyd Walsh wrote: |
...Lloyd (great name!)...
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I couldn't agree more! 
And congrats on the new toy! |
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Glenn Wilde
From:
California, USA
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Glenn Wilde
From:
California, USA
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Posted 9 Sep 2022 9:44 pm
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| Ahh, I see you're getting a Republic, good call, I absolutely love mine and it's bone stock, no need for cones, well, I did the mushroom thing and stripped the paint off the T bar but that's it, sounds killer. |
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